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Thread: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

  1. #426
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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Can someone please post Hollinger's analysis of the trade?
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...cers-mavs-deal

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hollinger, ESPN.com
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    Pacers-Mavericks deal: Who won?

    On paper, Indiana gave up more than it had to for no apparent reason

    I don't get it.

    On the first day that teams could start making official deals, we had one of the most baffling trades in a while -- Indiana's move of Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones to Dallas for a signed-and-traded Ian Mahinmi.

    Pacers fans complained that they were trading a starting-caliber point guard, one who led the team in PER during the playoffs, for a backup big man, but even that misses the more flabbergasting point.

    Indiana was several million dollars under the cap. Mahinmi was an unrestricted free agent. There was no reason to deal anything to Dallas since Indiana could have just signed him straightaway.

    I have no problem with the Mahinmi part. This was a good value deal for a big guy who has been consistently productive and is fairly young. He'll certainly be an upgrade on Louis Amundson.

    So help me out here. Why in the name of all that is holy would Indiana agree to donate two helpful players on low-dollar salaries to the Mavericks? I know the Pacers were worried about paying Collison beyond this season, but that doesn't mean he had negative trade value. Sources confirm there were no draft picks involved. This was just a straight giveaway, with Indiana giving away two useful players for a marginal cap savings.

    As for Dallas, it's hard to know how the team got through the call without laughing hysterically. After being snubbed by Deron Williams and Steve Nash and not getting on the radar for Dwight Howard, the Mavs have been working on the difficult task of building a credible team around one-year deals and plunging back into the market next year.

    The Pacers made that task a whole lot easier. Jones is exactly the type of active defender against big wings that the Mavs' roster was missing, and he comes with a reasonably-sized expiring deal of $2.9 million. Collison, meanwhile, offers an immediate upgrade on Jason Kidd at the point, and his cap hold for next year is small enough, $6.9 million, that the Mavs can probably play the free-agent market and still keep him in restricted free agency.

    Between this highway robbery and the solid one-year, $8 million deal for Chris Kaman, the Mavs appear to have most of their work done. The team has more than $5 million in cap space available (I mistakenly tweeted $4 million Wednesday, but I hadn't removed Mahinmi's cap hold), which may be enough to win an amnesty auction for another solid player on a one-year deal, Elton Brand. If not, other frontcourt options are out there.

    Once that's done, Dallas can use the under-cap midlevel exception worth $2.575 million to fill out the backcourt by either re-signing Delonte West or bringing in another player. That wouldn't leave the Mavs with a championship-caliber team, but they'd be pretty good and have a lot of options going forward.

    Some other thoughts on a busy day:

    The rest of the league can breathe a little easier now that Brooklyn's pursuit of Howard has been called off. The Nets did everything they possibly could and got creative putting together the potential deal, an incredibly complicated one that involved six sign-and-trades, Sundiata Gaines getting the full midlevel exception and Kris Humphries being paid $9 million in 2012-13. (All this is thanks to base-year compensation rules involving sign-and-trades; let's not get started or we'll be here all day).

    The irony is that Howard wanted Brooklyn and Brooklyn wanted Howard, yet neither side could make it happen. For that, blame two events. First, Howard's decision to sign the opt-in in March when it appeared he was about to be traded to the Nets. Second, the Nets' bizarre trade of the No. 6 pick in the draft for Gerald Wallace. While this was part of the team's strategy to appease Williams at all costs, it almost certainly cost them the key trade piece in a Howard deal. If not for that trade, the Nets likely could have had a Howard deal lined up on draft day to be executed July 11.

    As for Howard, just about all of his leverage has vanished. He gave Orlando a one-team list of destinations, and now it's virtually impossible for him to get there, at least until midseason when Brook Lopez is trade eligible again and the bizarre base-year compensation rules governing this deal go away. Additionally, there is no credible threat of Howard bolting to Brooklyn as a free agent.

    The next step is Howard's. He can give a wink and a nod to one of the other contenders for his services -- Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles or Dallas -- and set the wheels in motion for a trade, or he can (gasp!) tell Orlando he is staying. It appears unlikely he'll be able to wait until January for a Brooklyn deal, given the Magic's wishes to end this thing quickly.

    And before you think it, sorry -- nobody is trading for Howard just to flip him to New Jersey in February.

    Minnesota and Portland continue to engage in a fascinating game of chicken regarding Nicolas Batum, highlighted by the fact that the Timberwolves are promising money to free agents that they don't necessarily have.

    Minnesota allegedly has a four-year, $45 million deal in place with Batum but hasn't signed an offer sheet yet, apparently trying to goad the Blazers into a sign-and-trade to remove the threat of Portland matching. So far, the Blazers haven't budged.

    A secondary highlight is all the money Minnesota has promised to other free agents. The Timberwolves, can generate a maximum of $12.3 million in cap room. To do so, they have to cut the partially guaranteed contracts of Brad Miller and Martell Webster and use the amnesty tag on Darko Milicic.

    The problem is that they've promised much more than that: a deal for Batum starting at just over $10 million, another $5.2 million for Brandon Roy and whatever they've promised Russian guard Alexey Shved. That's to say nothing of their dalliances with Greg Stiemsma and a couple of other free agents.

    All told, the Timberwolves need to cut at least $5 million and likely more; I haven't seen a dollar figure on their agreement with Shved, but we can assume it's for much more than the minimum.

    This problem goes away if the Blazers match Batum's offer sheet, but the Timberwolves aren't going into this hoping Portland matches. If not, Minnesota can likely clear $4 million by trading Luke Ridnour and another $2 million by paying somebody to take Wayne Ellington, so it's still workable. But it's all getting very complicated.

    Count me in among those who think the Knicks will match Toronto's ridiculous offer sheet for Landry Fields. New York doesn't care about salary. The Knicks have proven this, and they have just a three-year window with the Anthony-Stoudemire-Chandler group before they'll need to blow it up anyway. Fields' deal fits perfectly on that timeline, as do the arrangements for Kidd and Marcus Camby.

    Besides, New York needs somebody to start at the 2 this season while it waits for Iman Shumpert to return from his late-April ACL injury. If the Knicks don't keep Fields, they need to either use Kidd or some minimum contract guy as their starting shooting guard. It will be bloody expensive, but New York has shown time and again that cost isn't going to stop them from getting a player.
    Yep. Pritch slapped.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Mahinmi is a decent backup Center. He averaged 7 points and 4.5 rebounds in the playoffs this year. In the few times I've seen him play, I noticed that he doesn't block shots and he's not very good defensively. That's the only disappointing thing about this trade to me.
    I saw him several times last season. And he was on my wish list for the Pacers to acquire. The price was high, but it always is for a big man who can play. My thoughts on seeing Ian play is that he needs more PT either at C or PF. I see severly reduced minutes for Hansbrough if Plumlee and Ian play well. That should make the messages boards happy.

  4. #428

    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    wonder how Grady will announce his name..

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Hollinger's two word summary: highway robbery
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I would say it was in part a roster clearing move and a salary dump. Maybe for more moves later on. But, since the P brass doesn't see the need to tell PMS-ESPN and the message boards their strategies for running the team, we don't know for sure.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Collison, meanwhile, offers an immediate upgrade on Jason Kidd at the point
    Jason Kidd at 50 years of age is better than DC, come on man!!!

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Hollinger's two word summary: highway robbery
    There is one great reason that Hollinger writes a seldom read sports blog and other people run professional sports teams.

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  12. #433

    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Hollinger summed up nicely how I feel. If you liked him that much, you could've just signed him and used those 2 in a different deal to bring in another asset. We have the cap space to get both Green and Mahinmi without trading anyone. So why trade them? Hopefully we find out today what the purpose of that was. Doesn't look good right now.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    One thing that nobody has mention is that Dallas starting unit is going to suck on D next year, DC, DJ, Marion, Dirk, Kaman? damn they are going to suck on D.
    I actually saw someone at a Mavs forum say he was excited to see Collison and Jones helping lock down the perimeter this coming season. Probably never saw DC play before the postseason.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Hollinger summed up nicely how I feel. If you liked him that much, you could've just signed him and used those 2 in a different deal to bring in another asset. We have the cap space to get both Green and Mahinmi without trading anyone. So why trade them? Hopefully we find out today what the purpose of that was. Doesn't look good right now.
    What kind of value can a guy who couldn't get off the bench in the playoffs have in Jones?? I am guessing he had negative value and DC off set it(plus he is devalued based on supply and demand in the market). We made this move with the though of adding a pg in free agency where there are tons of bargains right now. Brooks, Watson, Farmer, Augustin ,Sessions, West and Raymond Felton the market is flooded simple supply and demand. We are gonna get a solid guy on the cheap who is likely an upgrade or on the same level as DC and we can afford them.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 07-12-2012 at 11:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I would say it was in part a roster clearing move and a salary dump. Maybe for more moves later on. But, since the P brass doesn't see the need to tell PMS-ESPN and the message boards their strategies for running the team, we don't know for sure.
    A salary dump? they were not making much... and to me their value was greater than their salaries.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    I'm wondering if there was an agreement in this deal for the Mavs to not make a bid on Brand in the Amnesty auction. That would make sense since it seems we gave them more talent than we otherwise should have. It seems that Dallas and Indy were the two most prominent teams looking to put bids in and this could have driven down the price for us on Brand.
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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    What kind of value can a guy who couldn't get off the bench in the playoffs have in Jones?? I am guessing he had negative value and DC off set it(plus he is devalued based on supply and demand in the market). We made this move with the though of adding a pg in free agency where there are tons of bargains right now. Brooks, Watson, Farmer, Augustin and Raymond Felton the market is flooded simple supply and demand. We are gonna get a solid guy on the cheap who is likely an upgrade or on the same level as DC and we can afford them.
    The Pacers will sign one of those guards. The message boards will hate it. And the team will win.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Hollinger summed up nicely how I feel. If you liked him that much, you could've just signed him and used those 2 in a different deal to bring in another asset. We have the cap space to get both Green and Mahinmi without trading anyone. So why trade them? Hopefully we find out today what the purpose of that was. Doesn't look good right now.
    This is the damning part to me. Why not sign Ian to that deal and trade DC for a pick (which still clears his salary)?

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    I wonder if as part of the deal, Dallas will not go after Brand via waiver bid.... completely just a random thought that popped in my head and likely illegal.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    A salary dump? they were not making much... and to me their value was greater than their salaries.
    It doesn't equate to much, I agree. It does clear a roster spot for two expiring contracts that were going to cost the team next year.(DC is on a qualifying offer year).

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    What kind of value can a guy who couldn't get off the bench in the playoffs have in Jones?? I am guessing he had negative value and DC off set it(plus he is devalued based on supply and demand in the market). We made this move with the though of adding a pg in free agency where there are tons of bargains right now. Brooks, Watson, Farmer, Augustin and Raymond Felton the market is flooded simple supply and demand. We are gonna get a solid guy on the cheap who is likely an upgrade or on the same level as DC and we can afford them.
    Farmar got a contract in europe for 10mil and I agree with the rest of your post.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No, he is a rookie who was taken 26th. You shouldn't have expected him to play regular rotation minutes on a 50 plus win team

    On Mahinmi - everytime I saw him play I was impressed, as in wow, I wish we had him and could help him develope his game because he has real talent.

    I'm excited. Collison wasn't in the long range plans, we just signed George Hill to be a 30 plus minute a game player

    I feel the same way!
    I think Mahinimi will make people on here eat crow.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    This is the damning part to me. Why not sign Ian to that deal and trade DC for a pick (which still clears his salary)?
    It looks to me like DC's value was negative, like I said before why would a team give anything for DC if they can get an equal replacement in free agency?

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I would say it was in part a roster clearing move and a salary dump. Maybe for more moves later on. But, since the P brass doesn't see the need to tell PMS-ESPN and the message boards their strategies for running the team, we don't know for sure.
    If you were trying to merely dump salary, why would you choose to dump 2 cheap expiring deals, for one long term contract of yearly salary, nearly equal to what you dumped?

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    What kind of value can a guy who couldn't get off the bench in the playoffs have in Jones?? I am guessing he had negative value and DC off set it(plus he is devalued based on supply and demand in the market). We made this move with the though of adding a pg in free agency where there are tons of bargains right now. Brooks, Watson, Farmer, Augustin ,Sessions, West and Raymond Felton the market is flooded simple supply and demand. We are gonna get a solid guy on the cheap who is likely an upgrade or on the same level as DC and we can afford them.
    No matter if there are PG's that you can get for a bargin, you never trade away your assets for less than their value, and that is what I feel the Pacers did. I am pretty sure the Pacers FO agrees with my first point and I am suspecting that they put a lot of value on Ian, his potential, and the contract they could sign him to.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I must say I never realized (until this thread) that so many liked Collison and Jones. I thought it was obvious both were not in the long term or short term plans.

    I also get a kick when people say something like, "wow, we should have gotten more for Collison" or "he's worth more than we received" A player in the trade market is worth exactly what you recieved for him. Collison is not well thought of around the league. He lost his starting job to George Hill - I mean seriously. I like George Hill a lot, but he's not a great point guard, and yet he is a lot better than Collison.
    QFT

    I'm sure we've been trying to trade DC all off-season. You can only get what the market (other 29 teams) dictates.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    It doesn't equate to much, I agree. It does clear a roster spot for two expiring contracts that were going to cost the team next year.(DC is on a qualifying offer year).
    Dahntay's contract would be going away anyways, and DC it only matters if he does not sign an extension. Honestly DC was going to get traded at some point anyways, it really did not matter, we could have waited and traded him if we felt, I am sure we would get some other offers, and if not we could come back to this one, it was the first day of the signing period.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    No matter if there are PG's that you can get for a bargin, you never trade away your assets for less than their value, and that is what I feel the Pacers did. I am pretty sure the Pacers FO agrees with my first point and I am suspecting that they put a lot of value on Ian, his potential, and the contract they could sign him to.
    if we could of got a 1st rd pick without having to take back a bad contract im sure we would of done that. But realistically name a team who would give a 1st for DC?? I just don't see it he is a decent backup to ok starter but in this era of pgs there must be 50 guys like that in the NBA.

    EDIT: and lets say that we targeted Scola via amnesty and get him because we can now bid on him and have another million to play with(and basically took Dallas out of the chase). So if we get Scola and Ian plus a Raymond Felton would the cap space that we got via the trade not be worth it?? Market value for a player changes all the time we cant just hold on too DC and let him expire because we feel we didn't get market value that would be idiotic.I think people are overrating DC's value quite a bit here.


    The FO is thinking a few steps ahead here. Regardless if we nab Scola it was a good trade we got good value for players who we didnt want moving forward IMO.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 07-12-2012 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Ian Mahinmi to Indiana

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If you were trying to merely dump salary, why would you choose to dump 2 cheap expiring deals, for one long term contract of yearly salary, nearly equal to what you dumped?
    Was more of a keep our salary cap space the same so we can lock up a couple more key bench players for decent multi-year deals (Green, and now possibly Augustin).
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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