Maybe the rest of us got off track a little but the original post itself was very much thread related, nothing wrong with it.
What is there to talk about?? He is a really solid player. Weak handle long good defender. He boards and has a good post game. His jumper improved and now turned into one of the best players in the nation who should be a solid pro. Not much to debate with him IMO. McLemore has a lot more raw talent than him, but Porter has already proved he is a great player.
Like you said no chance we could draft him, but he should be a really solid pro. Good two way guy. I hope his defense stays solid. I could see it slowly declining especially vs elite athletes like he will face in the NBA. He gets the most out of his tools I will say that. He improved a lot more than I though he would this year. Props to him.
I still prefer Mo Harkless last year to him, but I was super high on Mo. I think Mo has a much higher ceiling.
The pg from Ohio is another guy I haven't watched outside of a few tourney games(I wasn't taking notes or anything and focusing). I have the tape on him. I just don't know if it is worth my time. From what I have read Cooper isn't much of a prospect. I will likely get to him eventually especially if he gets drafted.
Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 05:00 PM.
Way our offense is built around team ball, it sounds like he could fill a similar role as Hill, while Hill is resting.
Our offense seemed to struggle when we switched to an off ball/team ball PG in Hill and then put in a ball dominate guy in DJ. Offense got initiated slower with DJ as PG and it got very stagnate.
"George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears
I have some questions for you since I watched no college b-ball this year. Keep in mind Lillard might be my all-time favorite prospect, and I'm intrigued by C.J. since we're oddly bringing him in for a workout.
What do you mean about their (Lillard/C.J.) difference to make the right read and differences in pg ability? I look at C.J.'s best season vs. Lillard's and their AST/TO ratios are pretty similar (Lillard 4.0/2.3 and C.J. 3.5/2.3). In the limited stuff I've seen on C.J., he looked quite smart with the ball. I haven't seen enough to know if he can "run" a team, but the bad plays I saw looked more like a lack of trust in his teammates than anything else. How much of that could be the talent he's surrounded with? Looking at Lillard's numbers, it's surprising that his AST/TO ratio was much better as a rookie (6.5/3.0) and I'm wondering if the same thing could happen with C.J.
Also, I'm curious why/how you think C.J. is an average athlete. Looking at C.J.'s max vert is 38.5" (Lillard is 39.5") with a longer standing reach than Lillard's, and C.J.'s 3/4 sprint is faster than Lillard's (3.32 to 3.34). What am I missing, and what are the major holes?
In terms of athlete he is just average IMO. George Hill has outstanding numbers too. The weakness they have is laterally quickness.I do think CJ will be better than Hill in that area. It isn't a huge concern for me his decision making is. I always stress quickness not speed and jumping ability for a guard(Caldwell-Pope is a perfect example dude doesnt jump super high, but moving side to side he is elite). I always said when scouting Lillard he was one of the quickest pgs I had seen, qucick with the ball, and quick decision maker.
And the major major difference IMO is pace. Lillard is my favorite prospect ever due to pace. He plays at his pace and always dictates pace on offense(this trait makes him 100x quicker than his combine numbers indicate). He uses changes of speed like only a 10 year vet would. If John Wall had Lillards pace he would be unguardable Wall has one gear fast! CJ is similar he has very little pace IMO.
I still think CJ can be a 18ppg type 6th man or SG. I just am not sure I want him as my pg. Also note I am a huge fan of scoring guards as pgs. I just can't stand guys like Terry(when he played pg) and CJ and even Hill (Hill has some of the same issues in terms of missing reads) as a pg they miss way to many teammates that a solid scoring pg wouldn't miss.
I just fear CJ is way to poor in traffic to be a great pg. Lillard excelled in traffic. If he was going to be a successful pg it would be in the offense we run though.
Super helpful, p4e. Thanks for explaining.
Both C.J. and Canaan would be big upgrades for our bench. I find it intriguing that C.J. is clearly out of our range, but we're bringing him in. With Pritchard running the draft (which gives me much relief, as opposed to Donnie), I'm wondering if we'd pull off some magic to go for McCollum.
Do you think the talent difference between C.J. and Canaan is big enough to make giving up another asset (Lance or future 1st?) worthwhile? C.J. is projected in that 6-10 range, and there are 5 teams in that range from the Western Conference (typically easier trading partners). It all seems intriguing.
I think Lance and Canaan would be dynamic as hell. We would probably turn the ball over a lot with that lineup though. I think that would improve in time. I still prefer Green right now to Canaan. I think Green is a much better decision maker. Ball handling to me is a wash. I am still debating who is the better fit for us though.
I think I finally found my comp for CJ though. I think he plays like Terry a bit but OJ Mayo (and even has traits similar to our own Orlando Johnson) to me is the perfect comp for him. The movements even remind me a lot of Mayo. I think that would be the best guy to compare him to. I think CJ played a ton like OJ Mayo did at USC as well. OJ played on the ball in college a bit more IMO. But both were the team and both were huge playmakers with a bit of decision making issues in terms of hitting the open man.
Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 06:30 PM.
I should've said C.J. or Canaan. I wouldn't want both.
Lance or future 1st + 23 for C.J. or just pick Canaan? I think I know the answer since you wouldn't trade Lance for both combined.
O.J. Mayo..that's a scary comparison. I want nothing to do with questionable shot selection or decision-making unless they are a defensive stopper.
I personally would stay at #23. I think Lance plus Canaan is a lot more dynamic than just CJ. Like I said Canaan is the perfect guy to pair with Lance on the 2nd unit. I think the only area that CJ is truly superior to Canaan is ability to finish at the rim. We have Lance who excels in that area. I just like the idea of Lance and Green or Canaan a lot more appealing to me personally. I still think Green's ability to draw fouls will play a lot on the next level. The way he shoots combined with his penetration ability is really good IMO. I really like his decision making when he penetrates as well it is really solid IMO. He isn't that athlete though, I still like him should be a great backup pg in the right system even with the athletic weakness. I love him for Thibs system and for ours.
Also note I only watched one game of CJ this year. I watched the Baylor game where he went nuts for almost 40.(still have that game on the DVR) I am basing most of my assignment on last years tape which I watched a ton of. I figured he was coming out last year. He is only 21 I mean he could of improved a lot. Lillard made his jump after an injury. It could of been a blessing if he worked on his weaknesses.
I still like Erick Green+ Lance as option 1A. I do agree with Tbird Canaan is a lot tougher than most and is tougher than Green, but I love Green's skill set on offense for our squad. He is a scoring pg, but he is a pg who makes good reads. I wouldn't be mad with either one. I think both of them have pros and cons. I think Cannaan is the grittier defender and more physical in general, but I feel Green is better on offense especially in penetration. Green plays with pace that I was talking about earlier.
Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 07:19 PM.
If there were ever a time to trade lance it would be now, this is when you would be able to get the most value out of him.
Why so SERIOUS
These are the guys (realistically) that I would be fine if we drafted (in no particular order):
SF Reggie Bullock
PG Dennis Schroeder
PG Isaiah Canaan
PF Kelly Olynyk
PG/SG Erick Green
SG Allen Crabbe
SG Tim Hardaway Jr
I think they can come in and make an impact. Schroeder is the only one that I wouldn't expect to play (or at least that many minutes) in his first season. There are so many guys that can go in the first round. After the top 15 or so it really is a toss up.
After watching the Spurs and Heat I noticed the big difference between both those teams and the Pacers.
Anyone want to guess what it was?
an ability to have 3, 4, or even 5 guys on the court capable of hitting a jump shot while also being capable of guarding someone.
The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).
I'm (maybe) back after being repetedly banned, merely for supporting a different NFL team than do certain forum moderators.
With that said I believe the Pacers need to add some quickness to the team especially at the point guard and at one of the pf,sf or sg spots if they want to have a shot at a title. I am not sure you can win a title with the plodders the Pacers have without addressing this issue.