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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

  1. #1351
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    23. Indiana Pacers
    The pick: Isaiah Canaan, Murray State Racers


    There were "high fives" in the Fraschilla draft room when Canaan was available. It is not only an area of need for them, but to get a strong, quick, savvy point guard with NBA range at No. 23 is a steal. He could turn out to be as good as any playmaker in this draft. -- F.F.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...ks-first-round


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    Chad Ford's tier column is up no one made tier one or two lol. I am sure some teams disagree with that, but he goes with the majority of teams say.

    EDIT: Yes, he said McLemore and Noel + Bennett got 2nd tier votes. I would give McLemore a 2nd tier grade as well.


    Like I have said all along tier 5 is where it is at damn near 30 guys in that tier. pick 20-40 is where the value is. The Cavs are sitting so pretty with 3 picks in that range.
    Canaan seems very intriguing. How is his defense?
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  2. #1352

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    Why are we arguing about a Pacers-Lakers deal that isn't even a rumor, and is made up?

    Want to talk about a possibility of that type of trade, why not do it in the trade forum (or even make a new thread in the main forum and ask what ppl want to do with our pick, and include the option to trade it with GG to shed salary) and not in the draft prospects forum.

    JMO...
    It was an example in a post about draft prospects. The guy said that the Pacers' workout prospects look like 2nd rounders, and then he said maybe the pick will be traded.

    Maybe the rest of us got off track a little but the original post itself was very much thread related, nothing wrong with it.

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  4. #1353
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Porter is a player that is seldom if ever mentioned on this board. I realize he's a top 5 player that the Pacers have no chance at getting, but then so is McLemore and he's been discussed plenty.
    What is there to talk about?? He is a really solid player. Weak handle long good defender. He boards and has a good post game. His jumper improved and now turned into one of the best players in the nation who should be a solid pro. Not much to debate with him IMO. McLemore has a lot more raw talent than him, but Porter has already proved he is a great player.

    Like you said no chance we could draft him, but he should be a really solid pro. Good two way guy. I hope his defense stays solid. I could see it slowly declining especially vs elite athletes like he will face in the NBA. He gets the most out of his tools I will say that. He improved a lot more than I though he would this year. Props to him.


    I still prefer Mo Harkless last year to him, but I was super high on Mo. I think Mo has a much higher ceiling.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    Canaan seems very intriguing. How is his defense?
    Not, bad but at the NBA level it will likely be average at best(it could be better. You arent paying him for defense that is for sure lol. I am more concern with his ball handling/ decsion making. He is much better off the ball than on the ball IMO. His pull up off a dribble hand off is a beauty. The rotation he gets on his shot is amazing. He can flat out stroke it both set and off the bounce. I think he will figure it out on defense he has solid tools on that end. It may take him some time to adjust though. The Ohio Valley to the NBA is quite a jump. Lillard tricked me last year. He had solid defense in the Big Sky just based on athleticism. Lillard was bad this year on defense he slowly got better.


    The pg from Ohio is another guy I haven't watched outside of a few tourney games(I wasn't taking notes or anything and focusing). I have the tape on him. I just don't know if it is worth my time. From what I have read Cooper isn't much of a prospect. I will likely get to him eventually especially if he gets drafted.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 05:00 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Not, bad but at the NBA level it will likely be average at best(it could be better. You arent paying him for defense that is for sure lol. I am more concern with his ball handling/ decsion making. He is much better off the ball than on the ball IMO. His pull up off a dribble hand off is a beauty. The rotation he gets on his shot is amazing. He can flat out stroke it both set and off the bounce. I think he will figure it out on defense he has solid tools on that end. It may take him some time to adjust though. The Ohio Valley to the NBA is quite a jump. Lillard tricked me last year. He had solid defense in the Big Sky just based on athleticism. Lillard was bad this year on defense he slowly got better.
    Way our offense is built around team ball, it sounds like he could fill a similar role as Hill, while Hill is resting.

    Our offense seemed to struggle when we switched to an off ball/team ball PG in Hill and then put in a ball dominate guy in DJ. Offense got initiated slower with DJ as PG and it got very stagnate.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I totally disagree that is blasphemy to Lillard . I scouted both of them, and Lillard is on a different planet than CJ IMO. CJ rarely makes the right play especially in traffic. Damian was a rare guy he hardly ever made a bad read and could shoot for days as well as blow by his man off the bounce.

    CJ will be a solid pro IMO as a combo guard. I don't think he will ever be considered a pg. He has major holes in his game for that to serious help for that to occur. He will be a guy who can get to the rim a bit and a solid spot up shooter. I think he is closer to a Gary Neal type of guy or Jason Terry than a great pg in Lillard. The one thing I do love about CJ is the way he finishes left. He has a great left hand and finishes through contact better than most. Lillard was also much quicker than CJ IMO. I think athletically CJ is just average in terms of NBA guys. I think that will hurt him in beating his man off the dribble. I also fear him as a defender not to sure he will be league average in that area.

    I have some questions for you since I watched no college b-ball this year. Keep in mind Lillard might be my all-time favorite prospect, and I'm intrigued by C.J. since we're oddly bringing him in for a workout.

    What do you mean about their (Lillard/C.J.) difference to make the right read and differences in pg ability? I look at C.J.'s best season vs. Lillard's and their AST/TO ratios are pretty similar (Lillard 4.0/2.3 and C.J. 3.5/2.3). In the limited stuff I've seen on C.J., he looked quite smart with the ball. I haven't seen enough to know if he can "run" a team, but the bad plays I saw looked more like a lack of trust in his teammates than anything else. How much of that could be the talent he's surrounded with? Looking at Lillard's numbers, it's surprising that his AST/TO ratio was much better as a rookie (6.5/3.0) and I'm wondering if the same thing could happen with C.J.

    Also, I'm curious why/how you think C.J. is an average athlete. Looking at C.J.'s max vert is 38.5" (Lillard is 39.5") with a longer standing reach than Lillard's, and C.J.'s 3/4 sprint is faster than Lillard's (3.32 to 3.34). What am I missing, and what are the major holes?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I have some questions for you since I watched no college b-ball this year. Keep in mind Lillard might be my all-time favorite prospect, and I'm intrigued by C.J. since we're oddly bringing him in for a workout.

    What do you mean about their (Lillard/C.J.) difference to make the right read and differences in pg ability? I look at C.J.'s best season vs. Lillard's and their AST/TO ratios are pretty similar (Lillard 4.0/2.3 and C.J. 3.5/2.3). In the limited stuff I've seen on C.J., he looked quite smart with the ball. I haven't seen enough to know if he can "run" a team, but the bad plays I saw looked more like a lack of trust in his teammates than anything else. How much of that could be the talent he's surrounded with? Looking at Lillard's numbers, it's surprising that his AST/TO ratio was much better as a rookie (6.5/3.0) and I'm wondering if the same thing could happen with C.J.

    Also, I'm curious why/how you think C.J. is an average athlete. Looking at C.J.'s max vert is 38.5" (Lillard is 39.5") with a longer standing reach than Lillard's, and C.J.'s 3/4 sprint is faster than Lillard's (3.32 to 3.34). What am I missing, and what are the major holes?
    CM McCallum is coming in for a workout or CM Leslie?
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    CM McCallum is coming in for a workout or CM Leslie?
    McCollum, according to this post.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I have some questions for you since I watched no college b-ball this year. Keep in mind Lillard might be my all-time favorite prospect, and I'm intrigued by C.J. since we're oddly bringing him in for a workout.

    What do you mean about their (Lillard/C.J.) difference to make the right read and differences in pg ability? I look at C.J.'s best season vs. Lillard's and their AST/TO ratios are pretty similar (Lillard 4.0/2.3 and C.J. 3.5/2.3). In the limited stuff I've seen on C.J., he looked quite smart with the ball. I haven't seen enough to know if he can "run" a team, but the bad plays I saw looked more like a lack of trust in his teammates than anything else. How much of that could be the talent he's surrounded with? Looking at Lillard's numbers, it's surprising that his AST/TO ratio was much better as a rookie (6.5/3.0) and I'm wondering if the same thing could happen with C.J.

    Also, I'm curious why/how you think C.J. is an average athlete. Looking at C.J.'s max vert is 38.5" (Lillard is 39.5") with a longer standing reach than Lillard's, and C.J.'s 3/4 sprint is faster than Lillard's (3.32 to 3.34). What am I missing, and what are the major holes?
    Lillard in college was so far advanced in the PnR offense, he also played on the ball more than CJ does. He would get into the lane and always read the defense correctly. If the man hedged hard he would make the touch pass to the wing quick so he could touch pass to the other open man(the man who set the screen, or if one helped the other open man) or split it if the hedger had poor feet. If the went under the screen he stroked it. If they went over he would either take his man off the dribble , and if the defense collapsed he hit the open man. If he turned the corner he accelerated into 4th gear to the hole for 2. CJ doesn't have 4th gear, and he also didn't make the right read a lot. In essence when he got into the lane he missed the open man and shot or vice verse.


    In terms of athlete he is just average IMO. George Hill has outstanding numbers too. The weakness they have is laterally quickness.I do think CJ will be better than Hill in that area. It isn't a huge concern for me his decision making is. I always stress quickness not speed and jumping ability for a guard(Caldwell-Pope is a perfect example dude doesnt jump super high, but moving side to side he is elite). I always said when scouting Lillard he was one of the quickest pgs I had seen, qucick with the ball, and quick decision maker.

    And the major major difference IMO is pace. Lillard is my favorite prospect ever due to pace. He plays at his pace and always dictates pace on offense(this trait makes him 100x quicker than his combine numbers indicate). He uses changes of speed like only a 10 year vet would. If John Wall had Lillards pace he would be unguardable Wall has one gear fast! CJ is similar he has very little pace IMO.


    I still think CJ can be a 18ppg type 6th man or SG. I just am not sure I want him as my pg. Also note I am a huge fan of scoring guards as pgs. I just can't stand guys like Terry(when he played pg) and CJ and even Hill (Hill has some of the same issues in terms of missing reads) as a pg they miss way to many teammates that a solid scoring pg wouldn't miss.


    I just fear CJ is way to poor in traffic to be a great pg. Lillard excelled in traffic. If he was going to be a successful pg it would be in the offense we run though.

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  12. #1360

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Super helpful, p4e. Thanks for explaining.

    Both C.J. and Canaan would be big upgrades for our bench. I find it intriguing that C.J. is clearly out of our range, but we're bringing him in. With Pritchard running the draft (which gives me much relief, as opposed to Donnie), I'm wondering if we'd pull off some magic to go for McCollum.

    Do you think the talent difference between C.J. and Canaan is big enough to make giving up another asset (Lance or future 1st?) worthwhile? C.J. is projected in that 6-10 range, and there are 5 teams in that range from the Western Conference (typically easier trading partners). It all seems intriguing.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Super helpful, p4e. Thanks for explaining.

    Both C.J. and Canaan would be big upgrades for our bench. I find it intriguing that C.J. is clearly out of our range, but we're bringing him in. With Pritchard running the draft (which gives me much relief, as opposed to Donnie), I'm wondering if we'd pull off some magic to go for McCollum.

    Do you think the talent difference between C.J. and Canaan is big enough to make giving up another asset (Lance or future 1st?) worthwhile? C.J. is projected in that 6-10 range, and there are 5 teams in that range from the Western Conference (typically easier trading partners). It all seems intriguing.
    I wouldn't trade Lance for CJ + Canaan. I think Lance is the perfect complement to Canaan or Erick Green for that matter. (they both excel off the ball and off screens, and both solid with the ball, and have killer pull up jumpers)

    I think Lance and Canaan would be dynamic as hell. We would probably turn the ball over a lot with that lineup though. I think that would improve in time. I still prefer Green right now to Canaan. I think Green is a much better decision maker. Ball handling to me is a wash. I am still debating who is the better fit for us though.



    I think I finally found my comp for CJ though. I think he plays like Terry a bit but OJ Mayo (and even has traits similar to our own Orlando Johnson) to me is the perfect comp for him. The movements even remind me a lot of Mayo. I think that would be the best guy to compare him to. I think CJ played a ton like OJ Mayo did at USC as well. OJ played on the ball in college a bit more IMO. But both were the team and both were huge playmakers with a bit of decision making issues in terms of hitting the open man.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 06:30 PM.

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  15. #1362

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    I should've said C.J. or Canaan. I wouldn't want both.

    Lance or future 1st + 23 for C.J. or just pick Canaan? I think I know the answer since you wouldn't trade Lance for both combined.

    O.J. Mayo..that's a scary comparison. I want nothing to do with questionable shot selection or decision-making unless they are a defensive stopper.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I should've said C.J. or Canaan. I wouldn't want both.

    Lance or future 1st + 23 for C.J. or just pick Canaan? I think I know the answer since you wouldn't trade Lance for both combined.

    O.J. Mayo..that's a scary comparison. I want nothing to do with questionable shot selection or decision-making unless they are a defensive stopper.
    My bad that was a typo I meant Lance+Canaan isnt worth CJ( like Lance plus #23) IMO.

    I personally would stay at #23. I think Lance plus Canaan is a lot more dynamic than just CJ. Like I said Canaan is the perfect guy to pair with Lance on the 2nd unit. I think the only area that CJ is truly superior to Canaan is ability to finish at the rim. We have Lance who excels in that area. I just like the idea of Lance and Green or Canaan a lot more appealing to me personally. I still think Green's ability to draw fouls will play a lot on the next level. The way he shoots combined with his penetration ability is really good IMO. I really like his decision making when he penetrates as well it is really solid IMO. He isn't that athlete though, I still like him should be a great backup pg in the right system even with the athletic weakness. I love him for Thibs system and for ours.


    Also note I only watched one game of CJ this year. I watched the Baylor game where he went nuts for almost 40.(still have that game on the DVR) I am basing most of my assignment on last years tape which I watched a ton of. I figured he was coming out last year. He is only 21 I mean he could of improved a lot. Lillard made his jump after an injury. It could of been a blessing if he worked on his weaknesses.

    I still like Erick Green+ Lance as option 1A. I do agree with Tbird Canaan is a lot tougher than most and is tougher than Green, but I love Green's skill set on offense for our squad. He is a scoring pg, but he is a pg who makes good reads. I wouldn't be mad with either one. I think both of them have pros and cons. I think Cannaan is the grittier defender and more physical in general, but I feel Green is better on offense especially in penetration. Green plays with pace that I was talking about earlier.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 07:19 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    If there were ever a time to trade lance it would be now, this is when you would be able to get the most value out of him.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    If there were ever a time to trade lance it would be now, this is when you would be able to get the most value out of him.

    I'm not sure I'm following your thinking. What can you really get when Lance makes less than a mil? Maybe some picks, but not much in a returning player.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    CM McCallum is coming in for a workout or CM Leslie?
    I thought for sure I had typed out CJ.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    These are the guys (realistically) that I would be fine if we drafted (in no particular order):

    SF Reggie Bullock
    PG Dennis Schroeder
    PG Isaiah Canaan
    PF Kelly Olynyk
    PG/SG Erick Green
    SG Allen Crabbe
    SG Tim Hardaway Jr

    I think they can come in and make an impact. Schroeder is the only one that I wouldn't expect to play (or at least that many minutes) in his first season. There are so many guys that can go in the first round. After the top 15 or so it really is a toss up.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    After watching the Spurs and Heat I noticed the big difference between both those teams and the Pacers.
    Anyone want to guess what it was?
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    After watching the Spurs and Heat I noticed the big difference between both those teams and the Pacers.
    Anyone want to guess what it was?
    Small ball?
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    After watching the Spurs and Heat I noticed the big difference between both those teams and the Pacers.
    Anyone want to guess what it was?
    Hitting a midrange jumper?
    BillS

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    an ability to have 3, 4, or even 5 guys on the court capable of hitting a jump shot while also being capable of guarding someone.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Gerald Green will be 28 next season.
    I know. The starting line-up of Nash / Kobe / Metta World Peace / Pau / Dwight has an average age of 33. So, 28 is quite young for the Laker standards
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Flopping?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Just like they were with McBob, and how did that work out? Lakers FO have more sense than to take on Green. Nothing more than a pipe dream from those wanting to load him off on someone else.
    Are we talking about the same FO that hired Mike D'Antoni to coach an old, unathletic team? No, they don't have more sense.

    Plus, I don't really want to load off Green on someone else.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Small ball?
    In the Spurs and especially the Heat I saw better team quickness. It was very evident on the defensive side.
    With that said I believe the Pacers need to add some quickness to the team especially at the point guard and at one of the pf,sf or sg spots if they want to have a shot at a title. I am not sure you can win a title with the plodders the Pacers have without addressing this issue.
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