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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'll be extremely disappointed if Dieng is still available and the Pacers don't draft him! I like Canaan and feel he'd be a good pick for the Pacers. Olynyk just doesn't excite me as a pick. I'm not looking for another disappointing Plumless pick.
    I'm sure that we're looking at Dieng but I don't think that he'll get past Chicago. Olynyk is a good player as well, though.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Legit question......but is there any chance that IF a quality EuroPlayer drops to the Pacers at the 23rd spot ( meaning one that is clearly worth it ) that they would draft him then stash him overseas until the 2015-2016 season ( specifically AFTER PG, Lance and/or Granger is re-signed )?
    Most good Euros are planning to come over immediatedly. Karasev, Schroeder, Adetokunbo, Gobert. None of them plans to be stashed overseas. I don't see them as stash picks.

    I'm not sure about some other internationals like Noguiera, Jean-Charles, Abrines, Todorovic and Nedovic, though.

    I'll say this. Nemanja Nedovic is a very good player that will probably go in the 2nd round and chances are that he will be stashed.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    To my knowledge, the Pacers have not brought in any (or hardly any) potential first round picks for a workout. That tells me that they are going to trade their first round pick.

    Maybe Green and first rounder to LA for Blake and second (48th overall) round pick?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Most good Euros are planning to come over immediatedly. Karasev, Schroeder, Adetokunbo, Gobert. None of them plans to be stashed overseas. I don't see them as stash picks.

    I'm not sure about some other internationals like Noguiera, Jean-Charles, Abrines, Todorovic and Nedovic, though.

    I'll say this. Nemanja Nedovic is a very good player that will probably go in the 2nd round and chances are that he will be stashed.
    I'd like Nedovic, very athletic, big, reminds me of Dragic a bit. He's saying he wants to come over now but I'm not sure about that, there will probably be buyout issues.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    To my knowledge, the Pacers have not brought in any (or hardly any) potential first round picks for a workout. That tells me that they are going to trade their first round pick.

    Maybe Green and first rounder to LA for Blake and second (48th overall) round pick?
    That sounds ugly at first but it might go a long way towards re-signing Granger. For a team that's looking to win now, a deal like that (Green+pick for expiring+lower pick) makes some sense.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Most good Euros are planning to come over immediatedly. Karasev, Schroeder, Adetokunbo, Gobert. None of them plans to be stashed overseas. I don't see them as stash picks.

    I'm not sure about some other internationals like Noguiera, Jean-Charles, Abrines, Todorovic and Nedovic, though.

    I'll say this. Nemanja Nedovic is a very good player that will probably go in the 2nd round and chances are that he will be stashed.
    Yes, I don't like this class of euros at all. One of the worst I can remember in a while.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    Watching Otto Porter is like flashbacks of Granger when he was a college player and then a rookie.

    Porter is a player that is seldom if ever mentioned on this board. I realize he's a top 5 player that the Pacers have no chance at getting, but then so is McLemore and he's been discussed plenty.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    To my knowledge, the Pacers have not brought in any (or hardly any) potential first round picks for a workout. That tells me that they are going to trade their first round pick.

    Maybe Green and first rounder to LA for Blake and second (48th overall) round pick?

    I mentioned yesterday about the possibility of a trade since the Pacers weren't working out 1st rd picks. Maybe we are on to something.

    I wouldn't have a problem with Blake as a b/u PG, but I don't see the Lakers willing to take Green. Plus, surely the Pacers can draft a player at #23 with more potential for the future than trading the pick for Blake.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Yes, I don't like this class of euros at all. One of the worst I can remember in a while.
    Actually, I like this class a lot. I just don't think that the good ones are going to be stash picks
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I wouldn't have a problem with Blake as a b/u PG, but I don't see the Lakers willing to take Green.
    The Lakers are dying for some athleticism and youth.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I mentioned yesterday about the possibility of a trade since the Pacers weren't working out 1st rd picks. Maybe we are on to something.

    I wouldn't have a problem with Blake as a b/u PG, but I don't see the Lakers willing to take Green. Plus, surely the Pacers can draft a player at #23 with more potential for the future than trading the pick for Blake.
    Trading for Blake would not be about the future, it would be more about freeing up salary next summer to either re-sign Granger, or if he is not healthy, to sign another free agent. Blake would be a one year solution at back-up PG.

    According to Draft Express, Deshaun Thomas would be available at 48 and Peyton Silva at 53. Thomas could be a back-up SF who could rotate to PF when teams try to play small ball on us. Silva would be a third string PG with potential of moving to second string after Blake leaves in the summer of 2014.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    I'm down to trade out of this draft if we can't land Bullock or Crabbe.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    The Lakers are dying for some athleticism and youth.
    Gerald Green will be 28 next season.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Gerald Green will be 28 next season.
    1st round pick counts as youth to me.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    The Lakers are dying for some athleticism and youth.

    Just like they were with McBob, and how did that work out? Lakers FO have more sense than to take on Green. Nothing more than a pipe dream from those wanting to load him off on someone else.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    23. Indiana Pacers
    The pick: Isaiah Canaan, Murray State Racers


    There were "high fives" in the Fraschilla draft room when Canaan was available. It is not only an area of need for them, but to get a strong, quick, savvy point guard with NBA range at No. 23 is a steal. He could turn out to be as good as any playmaker in this draft. -- F.F.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...ks-first-round


    Love Fran he does great work, one of my favorite college guys + he does international. Great dude too.





    Chad Ford's tier column is up no one made tier one or two lol. I am sure some teams disagree with that, but he goes with the majority of teams say.

    EDIT: Yes, he said McLemore and Noel + Bennett got 2nd tier votes. I would give McLemore a 2nd tier grade as well.


    Like I have said all along tier 5 is where it is at damn near 30 guys in that tier. pick 20-40 is where the value is. The Cavs are sitting so pretty with 3 picks in that range.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-20-2013 at 02:31 PM.

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  21. #1342

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    Trading for Blake would not be about the future, it would be more about freeing up salary next summer to either re-sign Granger, or if he is not healthy, to sign another free agent. Blake would be a one year solution at back-up PG.

    According to Draft Express, Deshaun Thomas would be available at 48 and Peyton Silva at 53. Thomas could be a back-up SF who could rotate to PF when teams try to play small ball on us. Silva would be a third string PG with potential of moving to second string after Blake leaves in the summer of 2014.


    I'm not interested in trading a pick where the Pacers have the opportunity to draft a player like Dieng, Bullock, Canaan, etc to get rid of Green and bring in a 33 year old Blake. I value the pick more than that, and I'd hope the Pacers would as well.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    To my knowledge, the Pacers have not brought in any (or hardly any) potential first round picks for a workout. That tells me that they are going to trade their first round pick.

    Maybe Green and first rounder to LA for Blake and second (48th overall) round pick?
    The Lakers aren't looking for any contracts (besides Howard) past the 2013-14 season. Their books are clean beyond Steve Nash in 2014-15, and they don't want to mess with that. It's why they don't want to do a sign and trade for Howard.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

  23. #1344

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Just like they were with McBob, and how did that work out? Lakers FO have more sense than to take on Green. Nothing more than a pipe dream from those wanting to load him off on someone else.
    The Pacers essentially save 3 mil in that deal in exchange for a 1st round pick. It's a reasonable deal, similar deals happen quite often. I don't know if the Lakers specifically would do it, but the structure of that idea isn't a pipe dream.

  24. #1345

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    The Lakers aren't looking for any contracts (besides Howard) past the 2013-14 season. Their books are clean beyond Steve Nash in 2014-15, and they don't want to mess with that. It's why they don't want to do a sign and trade for Howard.
    To be fair, they would be crazy to even consider a sign and trade when they have a very solid chance to bring him back. Regardless of their cap plans.

    Right now Dwight has to choose between Houston/Dallas/Atlanta or making more money in LA. Enter sign and trade, and now he has an option to consider Brooklyn/Clippers and playing with DWill or CP3 in a top market.

    The Lakers should and I suspect will play this like the Nets did with DWill. Take it or leave it. Major money in a major market or less money in a smaller market.

  25. #1346

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    The Pacers essentially save 3 mil in that deal in exchange for a 1st round pick. It's a reasonable deal, similar deals happen quite often. I don't know if the Lakers specifically would do it, but the structure of that idea isn't a pipe dream.

    The Lakers take on 3 more mil in 14-15 and pay LT on it if they are over the LT. Basically, if the Lakers did this deal they are buying the pick, since they have no pick in this years draft.

    AGAIN, Blake isn't worth the #23 pick for the Pacers to miss out on drafting a good young player for the core future. I would hope Walsh is smarter than this. If Walsh did this deal, he's fixing his past off season blunder of Green by trading the #23 pick. Why compound 1 blunder with another blunder?

    I have no problem trading Green or the #23, but the Pacers need way more than an aging 33 yo player in return. Otherwise, keep Green and remember he'll be an expiring this time next year and easier to move.

  26. #1347

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The Lakers take on 3 more mil in 14-15 and pay LT on it if they are over the LT. Basically, if the Lakers did this deal they are buying the pick, since they have no pick in this years draft.

    AGAIN, Blake isn't worth the #23 pick for the Pacers to miss out on drafting a good young player for the core future. I would hope Walsh is smarter than this. If Walsh did this deal, he's fixing his past off season blunder of Green by trading the #23 pick. Why compound 1 blunder with another blunder?

    I have no problem trading Green or the #23, but the Pacers need way more than an aging 33 yo player in return. Otherwise, keep Green and remember he'll be an expiring this time next year and easier to move.
    Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's a typical pick sale, only the Pacers save on salary/cap instead of getting cash. Whether the Pacers or the Lakers would do it or not, that's a different question. But the trade idea itself is very conventional and not a pipe dream type at all.

    (PS: the Lakers are very unlikely to be over luxury tax in 14-15)

  27. #1348

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Chad Ford (ESPN) prospect rankings by tier

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/...cts-draft-tier

    Is there a consensus No. 1 prospect in this year's draft? Is there a consensus anything in this year's draft?


    Of course, the word "consensus" is a bit of a joke. We are a week away from the draft and there are still major debates running internally within every front office in the league. If teams can't agree, internally, on the order of draft prospects, how can we create a "consensus" ranking? As hard as it is for NBA draftniks to believe, there is very little agreement within teams, let alone between them, on draft night.


    This year is especially difficult. There aren't any elite players at the top of the draft and then there is enormous parity from the late lottery to the early second round. Many prospects are all over the board. I've been doing this a long time, and I've never seen so little agreement so close to the draft. Obviously, the draft is an inexact science, despite concerted attempts to create analytical models that are more predictive of a player's future success. I've read through a number of those models, and they don't agree on anything either.


    NBA teams watch prospects play thousands of hours of games. They go to practices. Go to camps. Hire guys from MIT to create statistical solutions. Work out players, give them psychological tests, do background checks and conduct personal interviews. And still, there is very little consensus. Factor in the debate between taking the best player available versus filling team needs, and the situation muddies itself further.


    To make sense of all of this, the past few years I've chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams called the tier system.


    In the tier system, teams group players, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need. This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available, but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.


    So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, here is how the tiers look this year.


    (Note: Players are listed alphabetically in each tier.)


    _______________


    Tier 1


    Players:
    None


    Note: This category is usually reserved for guys who are sure-fire All-Stars and franchise players. Since 2009, only Blake Griffin, John Wall and Anthony Davis have been ranked in this slot. This year, there just isn't anyone who looks like a "sure-fire" anything.


    _______________


    Tier 2


    Players:
    None


    Note: Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts. They are typical high lottery picks in a normal draft. Last year Bradley Beal, Harrison Barnes, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist all got the nod as Tier 2 players. In 2011, Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams were in this tier.


    This year, I couldn't get a majority of teams to project anyone in this draft as a potential All-Star. Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore and Anthony Bennett all got a vote or two from teams that had them in Tier 2. But the overwhelming majority of teams I talked to had these players all ranked as Tier 3 prospects. This is the first draft tiers column I've ever done where there no players ranked in Tier 2.


    _______________


    Tier 3


    Players:
    Anthony Bennett
    Alex Len
    Ben McLemore
    Nerlens Noel
    Victor Oladipo
    Otto Porter Jr.


    Note: These are the top six guys in the draft. Noel, Bennett and McLemore each received a small amount of votes for Tier 2, but the majority of teams I spoke with had them in Tier 3. This is one of the very few places in the draft that you'll find consensus. While there are a few exceptions, there's a very good chance that these six players will be the first six players to hear their names called on draft night. Teams have these six ordered differently depending on team needs or whether they are looking for immediate help or upside, but every team I spoke with had these six as their top six in some order.


    _______________


    Tier 4


    Players:
    Steven Adams
    Trey Burke
    Michael Carter-Williams
    Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
    C.J. McCollum
    Cody Zeller


    Note: After Tier 3, the consensus breaks down pretty quickly. These are typical late-lottery to mid-first-round selections in a normal draft -- selections 10-20. In this draft this group is more likely to be drafted in the 7-14 range. Trey Burke, C.J. McCollum and Michael Carter-Williams got a small number of votes for Tier 3. But the majority of teams had them ranked in Tier 4. Zeller was ranked in Tier 4 by every team I spoke with. Caldwell-Pope and Adams had some Tier 5 votes, but the majority were in Tier 4.


    _______________


    Tier 5


    Players:
    Giannis Antetokounmpo
    Reggie Bullock
    Isaiah Canaan
    Allen Crabbe
    Gorgui Dieng
    Jamaal Franklin
    Rudy Gobert
    Archie Goodwin
    Erick Green
    Tim Hardaway Jr.
    Pierre Jackson
    Sergey Karasev
    Shane Larkin
    Ricardo Ledo
    C.J. Leslie
    Tony Mitchell
    Shabazz Muhammad
    Mike Muscala
    Lucas Nogueira
    Kelly Olynyk
    Mason Plumlee
    Glen Rice Jr.
    Dennis Schroeder
    Tony Snell
    Jeff Withey
    Nate Wolters


    Note: This next group is the largest Tier 5 I've ever had, and it shows where the strength of the draft is. There is incredible depth here, and it's not uncommon to hear teams say that the player you draft at No. 35 might be as good as the player you get at No. 15. There is a whopping 25 players in this group. At least seven of these players won't hear their names called in the first round.


    A few teams had Antetokounmpo, Karasev, Muhammad and Nogueira in Tier 4, but not quite enough for them to make the cut. Interestingly, Ledo got two votes for Tier 4 and is a guy who clearly has been impressing people in workouts.


    _______________


    Tier 6


    Players:
    Alex Abrines
    Lorenzo Brown
    Jackie Carmichael
    James Ennis
    Colton Iverson
    Livio Jean-Charles
    Grant Jerrett
    Myck Kabongo
    Ray McCallum
    Nemanja Nedovic
    Phil Pressey
    Andre Roberson
    B.J. Young


    Note: This tier has the players who were listed as top 60 prospects by the majority of the teams I spoke with. Of the group, only Abrines, Jerrett and Pressey got some Tier 5 votes.


    _______________


    Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect. But the teams that run it have had success with it. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it has proven to be a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Why are we arguing about a Pacers-Lakers deal that isn't even a rumor, and is made up?

    Want to talk about a possibility of that type of trade, why not do it in the trade forum (or even make a new thread in the main forum and ask what ppl want to do with our pick, and include the option to trade it with GG to shed salary) and not in the draft prospects forum.

    JMO...
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm not interested in trading a pick where the Pacers have the opportunity to draft a player like Dieng, Bullock, Canaan, etc to get rid of Green and bring in a 33 year old Blake. I value the pick more than that, and I'd hope the Pacers would as well.
    I'm not counting on Green moving any time soon......Teams HIGHLY value Cap Flexibility....and I doubt that tacking on a 1st round pick in the 20s are going to entice a Team enough to take Green on.

    My opinion is that we keep the pick cuz it will be cheaper to draft talent then sign talent for the long-term under the assumption that the Coaching Staff will work with Green to help him fit in better for the upcoming season.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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