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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

  1. #1176
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Yes i believe they can, draft Tony Mitchell (Hugh upside, and possible replacement to D-West), sign CJ Watson and Kyle Korver. What did Hansbrough do in the playoffs? That's right, a whole lot of nothing, Mitchell can hit a mid-range jump shot, he can even hit a 3 pt jumper, and he is a shot blocking prescense, it doesn't take a lot to be an upgrade over Hansbrough in the playoffs.

    Watson
    Stephenson
    Korver
    Mitchell
    Mahinmi

    Not a bad bench at all
    Even if we draft Mitchell (which I don't buy btw), he won't be ready to play for a while yet. It took Lance 2 years after all, and Mitchell looks even more raw.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I don't know enough about his personality in order to tell if he'd be a bad chemistry fit or bad locker room.

    Look, Rondo is a great basketball talent. If you put a great basketball talent in an already great team then chances are that they improve even more.

    But does his play style fit our team? I'd have to say that it doesn't. He doesn't provide outside shooting and thus is a really bad fit for our starting unit.
    Nun
    I have seen Hill stand scared with the ball in his hands with Hibbert TOWERING over the defender BEGGING for the ball for two years. I'm tired of it!
    Hib coulld be an awesome, game changing weapon. Hill is an undersized 2 trying to learn how to pass.
    Time is critical. We need a guy who can toss that simple entry pass without hesitation.
    We need him now.

    I think Rondo's kind of a dick and I worry about having his "personality" in our house and Hill is a great kid and i'd take him to raise lol but he just can't make effective post passes. If Rondo can do that then were champs.

    That's worth something.

    P.S. I'm not downplaying the importance of outside shooters and of course the paint gets ugly conjested without it depriving us of our "advantage". I get that. But we can get shooting from anyone. we need our primary ball handler to be able to deliver the rock! Rondo sure seems like a guy who can do that.
    Last edited by solid; 06-16-2013 at 02:38 AM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    part of the problem with Mitchell is that he is the same size as Danny Granger. Nice size if you are a 3, not so much if you are a 4. Tweener.
    Kenneth Faried is smaller than both Mitchell and Granger. Kenneth is 6'7.5 with shoes and has a 7 foot wingspan. Despite that, he is more than able to play PF in the NBA.

    I don't have concerns about Mitchell's size. I have concerns about his mentality. He likes to play outside and isn't the dedicated banger that Faried is.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 06-16-2013 at 07:57 AM.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by solid View Post
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    Nun
    I have seen Hill stand scared with the ball in his hands with Hibbert TOWERING over the defender BEGGING for the ball for two years. I'm tired of it!
    Hib coulld be an awesome, game changing weapon. Hill is an undersized 2 trying to learn how to pass.
    Time is critical. We need a guy who can toss that simple entry pass without hesitation.
    We need him now.

    I think Rondo's kind of a dick and I worry about having his "personality" in our house and Hill is a great kid and i'd take him to raise lol but he just can't make effective post passes. If Rondo can do that then were champs.

    That's worth something.

    P.S. I'm not downplaying the importance of outside shooters and of course the paint gets ugly conjested without it depriving us of our "advantage". I get that. But we can get shooting from anyone. we need our primary ball handler to be able to deliver the rock! Rondo sure seems like a guy who can do that.
    solid
    I have seen Rondo scared of shooting the ball when the opponents are sagging 10 feet off of him. If there are 3 people in the paint doubling West and Roy then a post entry pass is not possible. If our PG cannot shoot then we have NO advantage in the paint at all. They will just collapse the paint and we're going to kiss our chances to victory good bye.
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  8. #1180

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Even if we draft Mitchell (which I don't buy btw), he won't be ready to play for a while yet. It took Lance 2 years after all, and Mitchell looks even more raw.

    Not to mention the Pacers drafted James White and Shawne Williams who both had a ton of POTENTIAL, but with problems. We saw how that worked out!

    Then there is Gerald Green with all his POTENTIAL who has never grasped the concept of how to play the game. If the Pacers coaches are Miracle Workers, I'd rather they work their miracles on Green at 7 mil for the next 2 years and Miles Plumlee as well. Fix what is wearing a Pacers uni b4 trying to fix something that has so many negatives in their game. Draft a player who has the opportunity to help the Pacers not one who might "years down the road" if all the stars are aligned properly. The Pacers aren't in the rehabilitating business. They are in the mode to win now.

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  10. #1181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Not to mention the Pacers drafted James White and Shawne Williams who both had a ton of POTENTIAL, but with problems. We saw how that worked out!

    Then there is Gerald Green with all his POTENTIAL who has never grasped the concept of how to play the game. If the Pacers coaches are Miracle Workers, I'd rather they work their miracles on Green at 7 mil for the next 2 years and Miles Plumlee as well. Fix what is wearing a Pacers uni b4 trying to fix something that has so many negatives in their game. Draft a player who has the opportunity to help the Pacers not one who might "years down the road" if all the stars are aligned properly. The Pacers aren't in the rehabilitating business. They are in the mode to win now.
    I agree with this. It is imperative that they get a contributor. If the person has the desire is the really hard thing to evaluate with any of these draft picks.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Kenneth Faried is smaller than both Mitchell and Granger. Kenneth is 6'7.5 with shoes and has a 7 foot wingspan. Despite that, he is more than able to play PF in the NBA.

    I don't have concerns about Mitchell's size. I have concerns about his mentality. He likes to play outside and isn't the dedicated banger that Faried is.
    Charles Barkley was 6-4 and he was one of the best PF's ever. No, size is not an absolute guarantee of failure or success. But guys that lack size have to make up for it be being special players. Not just talented or athletic, but that special blend of talent that allows them to overcome their lack of size. Size does matter at the NBA level. Mitchell is athletic, or so I've read, but is he that special mix of talent and motor that allows him to make up for his size. IDK, maybe he is, but don't dismiss his size issue because someone else can play at his size.

    It seems to me that one of the Pacers biggest strengths is it's length. Drafting undersized guys goes against that strength, at least IMO.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Charles Barkley was 6-4 and he was one of the best PF's ever. No, size is not an absolute guarantee of failure or success. But guys that lack size have to make up for it be being special players. Not just talented or athletic, but that special blend of talent that allows them to overcome their lack of size. Size does matter at the NBA level. Mitchell is athletic, or so I've read, but is he that special mix of talent and motor that allows him to make up for his size. IDK, maybe he is, but don't dismiss his size issue because someone else can play at his size.

    It seems to me that one of the Pacers biggest strengths is it's length. Drafting undersized guys goes against that strength, at least IMO.
    Mitchell has a 7'2.5 wingspan and stands at 6'8.75". He has a larger wingspan than Tyler and a better standing reach as well even though Tyler is a bit taller (6'9.5). Oh, and Tyler has almost the same exact size and wingspan that Kevin Love has (Love has a 25 inches smaller wingspan). Mitchell is NOT undersized. People underestimate wingspan's impact a lot.

    Do you know why David West can play PF even though he is only 6'9.25? Because he has a gigantic wingspan (7'4.25).

    Size is a combination of height and wingspan. A guy with a small wingspan will often play smaller than his size and a guy with a huge wingspan often appears to play bigger than his size.

    So, Mitchell's problem is not his size. T-bird himself said in his write-up that he has the body of an NBA 4. And I agree with him on this.

    Mitchell has tons of problems (motor, mentality etc.) that can easily make him fail in the NBA but size is not one of them.

    I'm not saying that we should draft Mitchell. There are players that I prefer a lot more. I'm just saying that Mitchell does not have a size issue.
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  14. #1184

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Mitchell has a 7'2.5 wingspan and stands at 6'8.75". He has a larger wingspan than Tyler and a better standing reach as well even though Tyler is a bit taller (6'9.5). Oh, and Tyler has almost the same exact size and wingspan that Kevin Love has (Love has a 25 inches smaller wingspan). Mitchell is NOT undersized. People underestimate wingspan's impact a lot.

    Do you know why David West can play PF even though he is only 6'9.25? Because he has a gigantic wingspan (7'4.25).

    Size is a combination of height and wingspan. A guy with a small wingspan will often play smaller than his size and a guy with a huge wingspan often appears to play bigger than his size.

    So, Mitchell's problem is not his size. T-bird himself said in his write-up that he has the body of an NBA 4. And I agree with him on this.

    Mitchell has tons of problems (motor, mentality etc.) that can easily make him fail in the NBA but size is not one of them.

    I'm not saying that we should draft Mitchell. There are players that I prefer a lot more. I'm just saying that Mitchell does not have a size issue.

    I agree. Size isn't the problem with Mitchell it's his desire, mentality, and drive. If he had Tyler's motor and desire, he'd be a top 10 lottery pick instead of a 20 something pick project. There are and will be better players available for the Pacers to select from, and those are what the Pacers should be concentrating on drafting.

    I didn't realize DWest had such a long wingspan. Thanks for pointing that out.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    If we go big, I truly hope we are able to draft Dieng. He's improved so much at Louisville and could already contribute with his length and shot blocking. (Could you imagine the Pacers teaching him the verticality rule?!)

    Dieng would also be able to play with West or Roy, both offensively and defensively. As we add scoring to the perimeter, he could be west's eventual replacement alongside Roy.

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  18. #1186

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If we go big, I truly hope we are able to draft Dieng. He's improved so much at Louisville and could already contribute with his length and shot blocking. (Could you imagine the Pacers teaching him the verticality rule?!)

    Dieng would also be able to play with West or Roy, both offensively and defensively. As we add scoring to the perimeter, he could be west's eventual replacement alongside Roy.
    I'm hoping for a trade up to get him. (I said "hoping," not "expecting," though.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    I'm hoping for a trade up to get him. (I said "hoping," not "expecting," though.)

    I hear ya. I posted the other day I wanted to move up about 7 spots to draft a player I liked. I never stated who the player was, but the player is Dieng. I definately don't want to see Dieng drafted by our EC competitors like Chicago, Atlanta, or Brooklyn. I understand the odds of the FO making a deal to trade up is slim and next to none, but it doesn't change my wanting Dieng as THE PLAYER drafted in 013.

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  22. #1188
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by solid View Post
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    Nun
    I have seen Hill stand scared with the ball in his hands with Hibbert TOWERING over the defender BEGGING for the ball for two years. I'm tired of it!
    Hib coulld be an awesome, game changing weapon. Hill is an undersized 2 trying to learn how to pass.
    Time is critical. We need a guy who can toss that simple entry pass without hesitation.
    We need him now.

    I think Rondo's kind of a dick and I worry about having his "personality" in our house and Hill is a great kid and i'd take him to raise lol but he just can't make effective post passes. If Rondo can do that then were champs.

    That's worth something.

    P.S. I'm not downplaying the importance of outside shooters and of course the paint gets ugly conjested without it depriving us of our "advantage". I get that. But we can get shooting from anyone. we need our primary ball handler to be able to deliver the rock! Rondo sure seems like a guy who can do that.
    So we need Rondo to be able make a post entry pass? There are plenty of other players other than Rondo who can do that

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Not to mention the Pacers drafted James White and Shawne Williams who both had a ton of POTENTIAL, but with problems. We saw how that worked out!

    Then there is Gerald Green with all his POTENTIAL who has never grasped the concept of how to play the game. If the Pacers coaches are Miracle Workers, I'd rather they work their miracles on Green at 7 mil for the next 2 years and Miles Plumlee as well. Fix what is wearing a Pacers uni b4 trying to fix something that has so many negatives in their game. Draft a player who has the opportunity to help the Pacers not one who might "years down the road" if all the stars are aligned properly. The Pacers aren't in the rehabilitating business. They are in the mode to win now.
    We drafted Lance Stephenson who had problems but potential, look how that worked out

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If we go big, I truly hope we are able to draft Dieng. He's improved so much at Louisville and could already contribute with his length and shot blocking. (Could you imagine the Pacers teaching him the verticality rule?!)

    Dieng would also be able to play with West or Roy, both offensively and defensively. As we add scoring to the perimeter, he could be west's eventual replacement alongside Roy.
    Dieng will be gone by when we pick

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I hear ya. I posted the other day I wanted to move up about 7 spots to draft a player I liked. I never stated who the player was, but the player is Dieng. I definately don't want to see Dieng drafted by our EC competitors like Chicago, Atlanta, or Brooklyn. I understand the odds of the FO making a deal to trade up is slim and next to none, but it doesn't change my wanting Dieng as THE PLAYER drafted in 013.
    That's a great point as well. If Dieng goes to either of those teams you mentioned, he's an immediate rotational player, and a potential starter in ATL. I definitely do not wish to see that guy on an opposing team for the nxt few years. Though I don't think he'll be as good of a player, I could see a smilar growth path from Dieng that we witnessed with Roy.

    Dieng will never be the post presence that Roy is, but he could easily evolve into the type of player Ibaka is with OKC, just a better passer and rebounder.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Dieng will be gone by when we pick
    Obviously theirr just mocks, but I've seen plenty of mock drafts where he goes right around, or even after we pick. I think you're right that he'll be gone by the time we pick, but it's not out of the question

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    We drafted Lance Stephenson who had problems but potential, look how that worked out
    This is true, but when drafting a big guy; the last thing you want as their weakness is their motor. I'm not as worried about his size, nor the rawness of his offense...but when you're questioning a guys motor on defense and on the boards, thats a serious problem for me.

    Lance's motor was never really questioned, but he's also a guard. It's a different ballgame when talking about bigs IMO

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    I hope Pacer fans realize when comparing Dieng to Serge Ibaka , that their is only 4 months difference in their ages. Ibaka turns 24 in September and Dieng turns 24 in January.

    This season Ibaka had averages of 13.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 3 blacks a night and has improved each of his 4 seasons in the NBA. i don't see that kind of improvement in Gorgui Dieng to see his upside as that of Ibaka's.

    Much like Miles Plumlee, I see a very limited ceiling for 24 year old rookies. Pretty much what you see now from Dieng rebounding and defense will be his forte', perhaps a poor mans Dale Davis ( I was a huge DD fan)

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    That's a great point as well. If Dieng goes to either of those teams you mentioned, he's an immediate rotational player, and a potential starter in ATL. I definitely do not wish to see that guy on an opposing team for the nxt few years. Though I don't think he'll be as good of a player, I could see a smilar growth path from Dieng that we witnessed with Roy.

    Dieng will never be the post presence that Roy is, but he could easily evolve into the type of player Ibaka is with OKC, just a better passer and rebounder.
    Dieng and Ibaka are not close to the same type of player IMO. Ibaka is much more mobile and miles ahead of Dieng on both ends. I like Dieng as a backup 5, but comparing him to Ibaka is crazy. Ibaka has the tools to play the 4 and Dieng doesn't IMO. I just don't see that kind of growth in a near 24 year old. He is a good player, but he isnt going to be an all-star level guy IMO like the two you listed. He will lucky to be a 8ppg guy if he gets starters PT.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-16-2013 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Dieng and Ibaka are not close to the same type of player IMO. Ibaka is much more mobile and miles ahead of Dieng on both ends. I like Dieng as a backup 5, but comparing him to Ibaka is crazy. Ibaka has the tools to play the 4 and Dieng doesn't IMO. I just don't see that kind of growth in a near 24 year old. He is a good player, but he isnt going to be an all-star level guy IMO like the two you listed. He will lucky to be a 8ppg guy if he gets starters PT.
    Please note im not nearly as high on Ibaka as most. I think he's kind of overratted. I agree, Dieng probably wont even average double figures, when I compare hm to Ibaka I simply mean an long/athletic shot blocking 4 or 5 that can knock down an open 16 foot jump shot

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  35. #1197

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    I hope Pacer fans realize when comparing Dieng to Serge Ibaka , that their is only 4 months difference in their ages. Ibaka turns 24 in September and Dieng turns 24 in January.

    This season Ibaka had averages of 13.2 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 3 blacks a night and has improved each of his 4 seasons in the NBA. i don't see that kind of improvement in Gorgui Dieng to see his upside as that of Ibaka's.

    Much like Miles Plumlee, I see a very limited ceiling for 24 year old rookies. Pretty much what you see now from Dieng rebounding and defense will be his forte', perhaps a poor mans Dale Davis ( I was a huge DD fan)

    As far as I'm concerned, the 2 words Dieng and Plumlee should never be used in the same sentence.

    Weren't we all DD fans!! I can see Dieng as a better scorer than Dale. A better scoring DD lite I'd be estatic! GET DIENG Walsh!

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    My lumping of the 2 together was based mainly on advanced age of both as rookies. Hansbrough was also 24, and his improvement was minimal in 4 years. When drafting an older rookie upside potential should be somewhat tempered.

    I don't see Dieng as being any better a scorer than DD 8-10 PPG max on average. After watching Plumless and to an extent Olando's very limited playing time, I have to wonder how much time Dieng would get backing up West and Hibbert? If very limited it further slows any true in game development as he gets older the major problem in drafting an older player.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    My lumping of the 2 together was based mainly on advanced age of both as rookies. Hansbrough was also 24, and his improvement was minimal in 4 years. When drafting an older rookie upside potential should be somewhat tempered.

    I don't see Dieng as being any better a scorer than DD 8-10 PPG max on average. After watching Plumless and to an extent Olando's very limited playing time, I have to wonder how much time Dieng would get backing up West and Hibbert? If very limited it further slows any true in game development as he gets older the major problem in drafting an older player.

    I'd take the 8-10 PPG from Dieng as a b/u. I see Dieng as Mahinmi's replacement in a year or two. That would make him 25-26 and young enough to keep contributing for many years to come. In this draft, I'm not expecting a Granger, Hibbert, or a Paul George, but someone who can come in and contribute. Even start in a "need be capacity" down the road "if necessary". IOW, Mahinmi but a much better overall player.

    I like your Plumless name. I'll probably will use it in the future at some point in time.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Archie Goodwin is intriguing as a potential 2nd round trade up ( or bought pick). It appears that most of his obvious flaws can be fixed with proper development, and he seems to have a good work ethic based on reports.

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    Last Post: 03-09-2012, 10:42 AM

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