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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    Kabongo isn't even expected to go top 40 in most mock drafts. He could probably climb higher in workouts but at #23 he'd be a bigger reach than Plumlee was last year.
    You can't really base his draft stock on any of the mock drafts that are out now for multiple reasons. One big reason is that at this point in the game outside of the top 5 or so they are rarely very accurate…..A good example of how curve balls are thrown is Deon Waiters last year….some mocks had him going in the late 1st….as low as the mid 20's and not only did he move way up the boards but he had a pretty respectable rookie campaign. The other big thing working against him at this stage is that he played a mere 11 games for a team that was pretty out of sorts so there just isn't much to base it on…..he is exactly the kind of guy that could in fact move up do to the combine and pre-draft workouts.

    I dont think he compares to Daren Collison or DJ Augustine. DJ is 5'11 and Collison 6'1 on his best day. Myck is 6'2-6'3 with a 6'7 wingspan which is on the larger side of the spectrum for NBA PGs and is showing the ability to add muscle weight without compromising his elite athleticism. He is already not only a natural PG but ALSO showed the ability to be a big time scorer at the 1 spot. Look I am not saying hes a lotto talent still (although with a different program and minus the suspension who knows, lets not forget he was a 5 star recruit who was projected as a top 5 pick at one time) As far as our system not being one that a natural PG can thrive in I am not sure we have had a truly talented natural PG to quantify that. The only time Collison showed promise was on a Hornets team that allowed him to completely dominate the ball at all times. Augustin played for the worst team in league history, there wasn't much of a system there period. If we think we could trade down for him then by all means go for it. Maybe 23 for Clevelands 31 and 33….but I have a sneaky suspicion that come draft day his position on these mocks will have changed. I just hope it hasn't taken him out of our range.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Darren Collison was your prototypical point guard in college as well . He posted good assist number while being able to score. When he got to a team that let a point guard fully run the show, he thrived (New Orleans). Once he got to the Pacers, his assists went down due to increased isolations with wing players like Granger and George. A player like George Hill, a scorer who can defend and make simple passes to set up the offense, is all the Pacers really need.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    I guess what I meant was prototypical PG that thrives in todays NBA. Daren had a short stint of success in Nola because of the unique system in place and do to other teams having a lack of knowledge on what to expect. It is highly unlikely any system exists that will allow Collison to ever be more than a 10-14 ppg and 6-7 ast player again. He is too small and too streaky to excel. He was at no point as highly touted as Kabongo was as a prospect. I don't think you would see George Hill put up much better assists in another offense, he isn't a natural PG. He has done an amiable job despite that. I can see Kabongo developing into a Rajob Rondo type of player with a little less passing and a little more scoring. Obviously this is just an archetype and I am not saying that he WILL become that level of player, but he certainly has the tools and has shown the flashes….his suspension this past season could work in a teams favor if it causes him to be available late in the 1st or early in the 2nd round…..not something anybody would have ever expected when he was coming out of HS as a 5-Star recruit.

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    I don't buy that Doug McDermott can't change our bench offensively.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylder1324 View Post
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    As far as our system not being one that a natural PG can thrive in I am not sure we have had a truly talented natural PG to quantify that.
    We are a power post team. We play inside-outside.

    We are not a pick and roll team. We don't even have the personnel for it. Our bigs cannot do it. Roy is not the fastest guy. West can play the pick and pop but he is not a great pick and roll option either.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    We are a power post team. We play inside-outside.

    We are not a pick and roll team. We don't even have the personnel for it. Our bigs cannot do it. Roy is not the fastest guy. West can play the pick and pop but he is not a great pick and roll option either.
    While I agree, I have never been a fan of hoarding "system" players. Besides, we are talking about a backup point guard here. The personnel in the second unit will probably be a little bit more variable from year to year. If we had a point guard who could distribute and run PnR's, it might give our second unit offense an added dimension that makes us harder to prepare for.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    While I agree, I have never been a fan of hoarding "system" players. Besides, we are talking about a backup point guard here. The personnel in the second unit will probably be a little bit more variable from year to year. If we had a point guard who could distribute and run PnR's, it might give our second unit offense an added dimension that makes us harder to prepare for.
    If we're talking about a back-up PG then I'm all for it. Myck Kabongo fits the physical profile of the Pacers so I would have no problem with him.

    But someone talked about finding a PG of the future and transitioning Hill in a 6th man role. That's something I don't agree with. A PG in the vain of Hill and Conley is exactly the kind of PG that the Pacers need.

    For a 6th man, I'd prefer a Guard - Forward type that can score in a combination of ways (3 point shooting, getting to the line or a post-up game).
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    If we're talking about a back-up PG then I'm all for it. Myck Kabongo fits the physical profile of the Pacers so I would have no problem with him.

    But someone talked about finding a PG of the future and transitioning Hill in a 6th man role. That's something I don't agree with. A PG in the vain of Hill and Conley is exactly the kind of PG that the Pacers need.

    For a 6th man, I'd prefer a Guard - Forward type that can score in a combination of ways (3 point shooting, getting to the line or a post-up game).
    IMO finding "X" player of the future should always take priority over a one dimensional player that happens to fit into the current scheme of things….that is unless you have an elite level team that is a top contender for a championship team already. We are not that. This is by far the closest thing we have had to that in quite some time, but we aren't there yet.

    My interest in Kabongo is as a player that is likely a 3rd string guy that we develop as a potential starter down the road. Do I think he could potentially break that mold sooner than later ? Yes, but realistically I think the idea is to draft him and sign a replacement for Augustin in the short term. I agree we do not currently run a system that relies on the PG in the way that a team with Chris Paul does, but that is because we don't currently employ a PG in that class, not because we simply don't think its a recipe for success. All of that said, I just think that a guy like Kabongo represents a potential low risk HIGH reward type of scenario that late in what is perceived as potentially the weakest draft….ever ?

  12. #734

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    Short defensive point guards include Patrick Beverley (6'1") who posted a high RSB40 of 9.8 and Rondo (6'1") posted a ridiculous 10.7. Russ Smith has a 7.2.

    I have been advocating getting Beverly as the b/u PG for awhile, and b4 he started playing well for Houston. I would love to have him, but I don't see Houston now letting him go.

    I like Russ Smith and mentioned him in this thread around the NCAA tourney. P4E said he was a PG he liked in this draft, but to expect him to be TO prone in the beginning of his career. 2nd rd pick player.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    When is the pre-draft camp?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    If we're talking about a back-up PG then I'm all for it. Myck Kabongo fits the physical profile of the Pacers so I would have no problem with him.

    But someone talked about finding a PG of the future and transitioning Hill in a 6th man role. That's something I don't agree with. A PG in the vain of Hill and Conley is exactly the kind of PG that the Pacers need.

    For a 6th man, I'd prefer a Guard - Forward type that can score in a combination of ways (3 point shooting, getting to the line or a post-up game).
    Myck has the size the Pacers would want, but he can't hit the 3. Pacers need their pg to be able to knock down long range shots. That's why Hill is so great for the Pacers system.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Myck has the size the Pacers would want, but he can't hit the 3. Pacers need their pg to be able to knock down long range shots. That's why Hill is so great for the Pacers system.
    Yeah, I agree that our PG needs to hit the 3. It is the best way to make open up space for our post players.

    Is his shot completely broke? I have faith in our shooting coach seeing the improvement of Lance.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    I don't buy that Doug McDermott can't change our bench offensively.
    I don't like him as a first rounder though. To me he's among the mid second-rounders who could stick (with Wolters, Kabongo, Snaer, Payne, and very late in the 2nd or as a free agent, Deshaun Thomas). Larkin and Crabb might be in the late 1st/early 2nd mix too.

    This draft seems to have almost no potential stars but a lot of guys who could stick around as rotation players if they are able to find the right situation, and they can be had from about pick 15 up to pick 60 with not a lot of daylight in between them all.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylder1324 View Post
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    IMO finding "X" player of the future should always take priority over a one dimensional player that happens to fit into the current scheme of things….that is unless you have an elite level team that is a top contender for a championship team already. We are not that. This is by far the closest thing we have had to that in quite some time, but we aren't there yet.
    I just don't see Hill as an one dimensional player that happens to fit our current scheme of things

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylder1324 View Post
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    My interest in Kabongo is as a player that is likely a 3rd string guy that we develop as a potential starter down the road. Do I think he could potentially break that mold sooner than later ? Yes, but realistically I think the idea is to draft him and sign a replacement for Augustin in the short term. I agree we do not currently run a system that relies on the PG in the way that a team with Chris Paul does, but that is because we don't currently employ a PG in that class, not because we simply don't think its a recipe for success. All of that said, I just think that a guy like Kabongo represents a potential low risk HIGH reward type of scenario that late in what is perceived as potentially the weakest draft….ever ?
    I have no problem with the interest in Kabongo. I would welcome him and I'd be glad if we were to groom him right.

    But I disagree with two things:

    1) I sincerely does not believe that a team in which everything revolves around the shortest player on the court (ie. the PG) is going to win a lot of titles.

    2) I do not consider this to be the weakest draft ever. If anything I consider it a pretty deep draft.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Yeah, I agree that our PG needs to hit the 3. It is the best way to make open up space for our post players.

    Is his shot completely broke? I have faith in our shooting coach seeing the improvement of Lance.
    Nah, if you watch him he has decent enough form. As the Spurs have demonstrated time and again over the years, three point shooting is very much an attainable skill.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Nah, if you watch him he has decent enough form. As the Spurs have demonstrated time and again over the years, three point shooting is very much an attainable skill.
    I tend to agree.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    I didn't mean to come across as insinuating that I thought Hill was a one dimensional player, on the contrary I am a big fan of Hill and love what he has brought to the organization, I hope he is able to get through this nagging injury in the playoffs. As for Kabongo's outside shooting I think it will be fine, that isn't something he has ever been knocked for, his percentages as a freshmen aren't really indicative as his biggest problem was pacing and learning the college game which will make all of your percentages suffer and as a soph he didn't play enough to get into a groove but had some very nice games as a shooter and as Cdash mentioned, his form isn't bad and yes Lance has shown that our coaches are earning their salaries.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylder1324 View Post
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    As for Kabongo's outside shooting I think it will be fine, that isn't something he has ever been knocked for, his percentages as a freshmen aren't really indicative as his biggest problem was pacing and learning the college game which will make all of your percentages suffer and as a soph he didn't play enough to get into a groove but had some very nice games as a shooter and as Cdash mentioned, his form isn't bad and yes Lance has shown that our coaches are earning their salaries.
    Yeah, I'm not very worried about Kabongo's shooting either.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Nah, if you watch him he has decent enough form. As the Spurs have demonstrated time and again over the years, three point shooting is very much an attainable skill.
    IIRC, the Spurs try to draft guys that are very good shooters to begin with. I vaguely remember an interview with Popovich where he said they look for guys with an elite skill vs guys with better all around talent. They take guys that are already good shooters and refine the skill rather than just average shooters and turn them into great shooters.

    I would rather the Pacers look for a combo guard type that can shoot and handle the ball and turn him into a Pacer PG rather than a college PG that needs to be taught how to shoot.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Yeah, I agree that our PG needs to hit the 3. It is the best way to make open up space for our post players.

    Is his shot completely broke? I have faith in our shooting coach seeing the improvement of Lance.
    He also has to be able to penetrate the lane to kick it out as well. With PG and Lance on the perimeter and West in the mid range
    "We want Miami"

  25. #746

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    “Dumars está absolutamente enamorado de Zeljko Obradovic”,
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    Evidently Detroit likes this guy. Who is he?

  26. #747

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    The McDermott kid from Creighton has decided to stay in school. Apparently, does like being a 2nd rd pick.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Russ Smith is going back to Louisville as well.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The McDermott kid from Creighton has decided to stay in school. Apparently, does like being a 2nd rd pick.
    He plays for his dad, and this is the last time in his life he will be able to do so. I applaud his decision.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Link

    Evidently Detroit likes this guy. Who is he?
    The best coach in Europe.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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