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Thread: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Why do people, not directing this at you in particulaar, ask what can you get? My answer is, if the #23 pick is packaged with a player or 2 then something of possible greater value for the future. If your goal is another Plumlee at #23 to fill out a roster on a cheap rookie contract by all means keep the #23 pick. If your goal is to not improve the roster, then by all means keep the #23 pick.

    My good gracious, lets not try to improve by trading a #23 pick in a very weak draft for a player who can help the Pacers going forward. Lets just keep the status quo as it is and be losing to the freaking Cavs by 20! Why try to improve the roster when you can get a super dooper player at #23 in a weak draft who likely won't contribute for a # of years?

    Again, I'm not singling you out I just feel the Pacers need an up[grade and this is a way of doing it. Plus I'm flipp'n upset being beaten by the Cavs. grrr
    Because why trade something if you can't get something for it? Not all picks in the 20s are Miles Plumlees. My whole point was: What are you getting for the the 23rd or whatever we are slated to pick that is going to help us now?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Because why trade something if you can't get something for it? Not all picks in the 20s are Miles Plumlees. My whole point was: What are you getting for the the 23rd or whatever we are slated to pick that is going to help us now?

    Who says you can't get something for the pick? What's wrong with upgrading next season with trading the pick? You make it sound like that's an impossibility. Why is it an impossibility? It's FO that take a positive pro-active view that get trades done. If this was the #23 pick in a really good draft, I agree take the pick and draft a player, but it's not. Walsh can take the pick and draft another Rautins, Fields, or whoever in a weak draft. Don't forget Walsh drafted Jordan Hill with the 8th pick in a good draft in 09 only to trade him later b/c he was a disappointment. Why do people think the #23 pick is going to be some jewel in this weak draft?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    This is why I've said this is a good year to trade out if at all possible.
    This draft seems fairly deep in the late teens / late first area. Several young bigs that can be hand at a discount price due to the rookie scale contracts.

    I don't see us trading out of the draft if we don't get a similar pick in next year's draft or a player that could help us with our immediate goals.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    My good gracious, lets not try to improve by trading a #23 pick in a very weak draft for a player who can help the Pacers going forward.
    This draft is only weak if you're picking in the top 5. Why? Because there is no sure fire All-Star. Noel was injured and no one else impressed.

    However, it is the perfect draft if you're drafting at late teens / late first area. There is a a lot of value to be had there. There have been several top prospects that have fallen and will enter this draft in hope that they will get higher since it's considered a weaker draft. Anthony Bennet is such an example. This is also a very good International class.

    In overall, the draft is consider weak because there is no sure fire All-Star but there are several guys that project to be quality role players for a long, long time and some other guys with top talent but several red flags.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    If this was the #23 pick in a really good draft, I agree take the pick and draft a player, but it's not. Why do people think the #23 pick is going to be some jewel in this weak draft?
    There are chances that the next draft is going to have worse players available at #23 than this year's draft.

    Everyone is saying that this draft is really weak. So, more players will declare in hopes of being drafted in the lottery. Next year's draft is projected to be top-heavy. So, why would a top prospect enter next year's draft instead of this one?

    There is no incentive for a player that hopes to go as high in the lottery as they can to come out in a projected strong draft. Unless, of course, they graduate or they are a one and done.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    1.Who says you can't get something for the pick? What's wrong with upgrading next season with trading the pick? 2.You make it sound like that's an impossibility. Why is it an impossibility? It's FO that take a positive pro-active view that get trades done. If this was the #23 pick in a really good draft, I agree take the pick and draft a player, but it's not. Walsh can take the pick and draft another Rautins, Fields, or whoever in a weak draft. 3.Don't forget Walsh drafted Jordan Hill with the 8th pick in a good draft in 09 only to trade him later b/c he was a disappointment. 4.Why do people think the #23 pick is going to be some jewel in this weak draft?
    1. It's a late first round pick in a perceived weak draft class. I'm just saying I don't think you could get an upgrade for next season by trading that pick without taking on extra money. We are a small market team who absolutely cannot afford to dip our toes in the luxury tax. Having guys on rookie contracts is a big deal.

    2. It's not impossible to do so, but my guess is it's harder than you are making it out to be.

    3. I'm not 100% certain that it will be Walsh calling the shots. I think he has the final say, but I believe Pritchard will have a loud say in what direction we go with that pick.

    4. No one is saying the pick will be a jewel. What I am saying (can't speak for others, of course) is that I'm not sure that trading that pick would automatically make us better while also keeping us flexible within the rules of the salary cap. Not only this year, but in coming years.

    It is just my preference to keep the pick, and most first round picks in general. Now, if we could package the pick with another player and move up in the draft to get someone significant who could help our team, I would not be opposed to that. Not sure what kind of value (if any) Granger has, but if we could package him and the pick and move up to target whoever it is that the FO likes not named "Plumlee" then you won't hear any grumbling out of me.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Glen Rice Jr. Sounds like a scorer to me. This team really needs a backup point. While the Pacers need a scorer today, I think PG, Lance and OJ all take another leap forward, so I really don't forsee this being an issue unless DWest signs elsewhere.

    I'd trade the first round pick for something next season honestly. Save the money and sign Jarrett Jack, DWest and backup PF. Also, Oden...just cause.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    His (Burke's) decision making is suspect not in relation to turnovers, but to shot selection/defensive decisions, positioning away from the ball etc.

    Good decision making does not mean "Good assist/TO ratio", IMO. It's the whole package. He likes hero ball waaaayyyy too much, loves heaving terrible threes, going one on three etc. I consider all of that indicative of poor decision making.

    Perfect example would be the Ohio State loss. Hardaway gets them back in the game with one of the more impressive long-range shooting displays I've seen...then Burke decides to dominate the ball both at the end of regulation and OT, taking multiple deep contested threes. As an Ohio State fan, I was terrified that Hardaway would get the shot, and quite content with Burke.

    My $.02


    BTW, I'm not one of those "bitter" fans, I love Trey at the college level, he's a great player with incredible toughness. I'm arguing against him being a top 5-10 pick...but, as has been said by others, this draft sucks, so he might be the "cream of the crappy crop" so to speak.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Smart? You mean the guy that can't shoot or pass? Sure.

    I love how the guy with the top A/TO rate in the country makes bad decisions....
    lol at saying Smart can't pass. That just isnt true. Shooting is something that can be improved upon with work ethic. Look at Lance Stephenson from the draft until now. If He could shoot like McLemore he would easily be the top pick.


    I will take his defense and decision making + great frame over the other two. Smart just has more tools IMO better player in the long run than Burke and MCW.

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  12. #610

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    This draft seems fairly deep in the late teens / late first area. Several young bigs that can be hand at a discount price due to the rookie scale contracts.

    I don't see us trading out of the draft if we don't get a similar pick in next year's draft or a player that could help us with our immediate goals.
    It only makes sense if possible to trade out of a weak draft. I'm not looking to get another Plumlee type pick, and Plumlee came out of a good draft.

    Interesting fact: Dallas last year traded their #17 pick Todd Zeller to the Cavs for the #24,33, and 34 picks. Dallas needed a center since they lost Tyson Chandler so you would have thought they would just take Plumlee at #24. Nope, they took Jared Cummingham instead. Atlanta needed a center as well and drafted at #23 ahead of Cleveland and took John Jenkins. Then Memphis who needed a center too drafts at #25 after Dallas and takes Troy Wroten. Along comes Bird at #26 and drafts Plumlee. Either Dallas, Atlanta, and Memphis knew something about Plumlee they didn't like or they must have felt Cummingham, Jenkins, and Wroten were much better than Plumlee. Either way it doesn't say much for Plumlee.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    It only makes sense if possible to trade out of a weak draft. I'm not looking to get another Plumlee type pick, and Plumlee came out of a good draft.

    Interesting fact: Dallas last year traded their #17 pick Todd Zeller to the Cavs for the #24,33, and 34 picks. Dallas needed a center since they lost Tyson Chandler so you would have thought they would just take Plumlee at #24. Nope, they took Jared Cummingham instead. Atlanta needed a center as well and drafted at #23 ahead of Cleveland and took John Jenkins. Then Memphis who needed a center too drafts at #25 after Dallas and takes Troy Wroten. Along comes Bird at #26 and drafts Plumlee. Either Dallas, Atlanta, and Memphis knew something about Plumlee they didn't like or they must have felt Cummingham, Jenkins, and Wroten were much better than Plumlee. Either way it doesn't say much for Plumlee.
    You are basing your entire argument off of one lousy pick, you do realize this, right?

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    This draft is only weak if you're picking in the top 5. Why? Because there is no sure fire All-Star. Noel was injured and no one else impressed.

    However, it is the perfect draft if you're drafting at late teens / late first area. There is a a lot of value to be had there. There have been several top prospects that have fallen and will enter this draft in hope that they will get higher since it's considered a weaker draft. Anthony Bennet is such an example. This is also a very good International class.

    In overall, the draft is consider weak because there is no sure fire All-Star but there are several guys that project to be quality role players for a long, long time and some other guys with top talent but several red flags.
    Yep, lets draft another Lorbek Stanko player who never comes to play for the Pacers. Many of those Int players will be drafted in the 2nd round so not to lose a 1st rd investment on a player who won't come for years if at all. I'd rather trade the pick than waste it.

    Point out some great non-Euro picks who are going to be available at #23 who will be able to help the Pacers next year. The chances are extremely slim, so if possible you trade out of the draft by using the #23 pick as part of a trade for a player who can contribute next year and in the future.

    If it's necessary to stay in the draft, then I'd rather trade back to Cleveland for their 2 early 2nd rd picks. That gives the Pacers 2 opportunities for a value on unguaranteed contracts.

    Some feel getting rid of a 1st is sacriligous, but if you could add the 1st to Green as a sweetner in a trade how many would truly say no? Any product can be sold if it's packaged right.

  16. #613

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    This draft seems fairly deep in the late teens / late first area. Several young bigs that can be hand at a discount price due to the rookie scale contracts.

    I don't see us trading out of the draft if we don't get a player that could help us with our immediate goals.

    If Withey can be gotten then fine.

    Finally, someone has seen the light. This is exactly what I've been saying.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    It only makes sense if possible to trade out of a weak draft. I'm not looking to get another Plumlee type pick, and Plumlee came out of a good draft.
    Exactly. Plumlee came out of a good draft.

    Drafts are usually characterized by their lottery. The 2012 draft had a clear cut lottery. Look at some mock drafts:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

    http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

    Davis, Beal, MKG, Barnes, Robinson, Lillard, Waiters, Drummond, Henson, Rivers, Zeller, Lamb, Ross and Leonard appear in both drafts at the lottery. That's 14 guys out of 15 possible lottery picks. Out of those 14 players the only one that didn't went in the lottery was Zeller.

    Last year's draft also had guys that were considered to have lottery talent but fell due to various red flags. PJIII, Sullinger and Royce White were all expected to lurk around the lottery but fall due to different reasons.

    It was considered to be a pretty deep draft. Therefore, several players that could declare last season opted not to do so. It wouldn't make sense for them to declare last season. And it doesn't make a lot of sense to declare next season either since it's considered a good draft again.

    But this year's draft? This draft is considered weak. It isn't top heavy and you cannot find a sure-fire All-Star. That's why several talented players are going to declare. This is their best chance to go lottery.

    I believe that we can find great value in this year's draft at our pick. I'd hate to draft in the top 10, though.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Point out some great non-Euro picks who are going to be available at #23 who will be able to help the Pacers next year. The chances are extremely slim, so if possible you trade out of the draft by using the #23 pick as part of a trade for a player who can contribute next year and in the future.
    Let's see.

    http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/

    DX has us taking Tony Mitchell. The talent is there but he had a horrible year due to a coaching change and ensuing bad chemistry. He has lottery talent but he has fallen due to lack of production that has raised some red flags.

    Adreian Payne and Mike Muscala are going to be there as well (projected to go early 2nd).

    http://nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft

    Draftnet.com has us taking Doug McDermott. He is a great scorer at the college level but will it translate in the NBA?

    It's important to note that Draftnet.com has the following players being drafted after our pick:

    Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Withey, Tony Mitchell, Tim Hardaway Jr, Isaiah Austin, Archie Goodwin. There is some real talent here.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-nba-franchise

    Bleacher report has us taking Tim Hardaway Jr.

    Players after that pick:

    Gorgui Dieng, Archie Goodwin, James Michael McAdoo, Tony Mitchell. They also have Withey at #22.

    There is talent to be had at our pick in this particular draft.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    If Withey can be gotten then fine.

    Finally, someone has seen the light. This is exactly what I've been saying.
    Withey is projected to go at the early 20s in most mock drafts.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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  20. #617

    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    [QUOTE=Nuntius;1620102]

    Exactly. Plumlee came out of a good draft. /QUOTE]


    EXACTLY and what does that say when the best you could get out of a good draft is Plumlee!?!? Yet, you feel some jewel is going to fall to the Pacers in a weak draft. I just don't see the odds in the Pacers favor that happening.

    I'd trade Plumlee in a heartbeat for Patrick Beverly and feel afraid I was going to get arrested for theft!. If necessary, throw in a pick to get the deal done.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    EXACTLY and what does that say when the best you could get out of a good draft is Plumlee!?!? Yet, you feel some jewel is going to fall to the Pacers in a weak draft. I just don't see the odds in the Pacers favor that happening.
    I'm afraid that you didn't understand what I said.

    Strong draft = strong lottery

    Those strong lotteries are mostly set. Not a lot of players that have the talent but have red flags are going to come out because they're not as likely to be a lottery pick.

    Weak draft = weak lottery

    That means that several players that have the talent but also have significant red flags are going to come out. Why? It's extremely simple. There are more chances that they will be lottery picks in a weak draft since the lottery is not set. So, a lot of them are going to try it.

    That means that a decent amount of players that could be picked in the lottery fall outside of it and go late 1st.. It's simply a matter of supply.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm afraid that you didn't understand what I said.

    Strong draft = strong lottery

    Those strong lotteries are mostly set. Not a lot of players that have the talent but have red flags are going to come out because they're not as likely to be a lottery pick.

    Weak draft = weak lottery

    That means that several players that have the talent but also have significant red flags are going to come out. Why? It's extremely simple. There are more chances that they will be lottery picks in a weak draft since the lottery is not set. So, a lot of them are going to try it.

    That means that a decent amount of players that could be picked in the lottery fall outside of it and go late 1st.. It's simply a matter of supply.

    I can't agree there is going to be an exodus of college players coming out this year. As I pointed out after the Euros are taken out of the 1st rd, players who might have been available at #23 won't be. They will fall down into the middle part of the draft. There are always players that mock drafts have coming out that won't enter the draft as well. The further down the better players fall towards the lottery the less quality there are to draft in the latter part of the draft, especially in a poor overall draft. There are players drafted last year in the teens that would be to 5-10 picks in this draft. That's how poor this overall draft is. Better yet there are 2nd round players last year who would be 1st round players this year and the Pacers have one of them... JUICE. That's how poor the quality of this draft is this year. Picking a jewel out of this lottery isn't impossible, just extremely highly improbable. I'd rather have better odds and a better opportunity to get a player to help the Pacers by packaging the #23 in a trade.

    Do I feel Walsh will do it? Absolutely not. The only 1st I can remember in the last decade Walsh was here b4 leaving to go to NY he traded it to Atlanta to get the infamous half season rental of Big Al Harrington. So I expect to see some here today gone tomorrow player drafted by Walsh in June b/c for heavensake don't trade the #23 pick in the 1st round as you might miss out on the opportunity of getting another Scott Haskins.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Draftnet.com has us taking Doug McDermott. He is a great scorer at the college level but will it translate in the NBA?

    It's important to note that Draftnet.com has the following players being drafted after our pick:

    Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Withey, Tony Mitchell, Tim Hardaway Jr, Isaiah Austin, Archie Goodwin. There is some real talent here.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-nba-franchise

    Bleacher report has us taking Tim Hardaway Jr.

    Players after that pick:

    Gorgui Dieng, Archie Goodwin, James Michael McAdoo, Tony Mitchell. They also have Withey at #22.

    There is talent to be had at our pick in this particular draft.
    My guess is Dieng or Hardaway Jr. won't be there when we pick after workouts. However, if they were, I'd pick either one and not look back.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    My guess is Dieng or Hardaway Jr. won't be there when we pick after workouts. However, if they were, I'd pick either one and not look back.
    I believe they can add a good player at their pick. Those two would not be bad.
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Look who is in the draft. I mean how many guys would you draft ahead of Burke and McLemore?
    Above McLemore: Noel, Oladipo, Marcus Smart, Anthony Bennett, maybe Otto Porter
    Above Burke: CJ McCollum (underrated) , Michael Carter Williams, Jeff Withey(underrated)

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Can someone tell me what is so great about Nerlens Noel? He has no offense at all, and he isn't the best shot blocker in this class. He is a more hyped Bismark Biyambo. He went to Kentucky....and that's it. Has a school alone ever created so much buzz about the potential top pick in the draft?
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Can someone tell me what is so great about Nerlens Noel? He has no offense at all, and he isn't the best shot blocker in this class. He is a more hyped Bismark Biyambo. He went to Kentucky....and that's it. Has a school alone ever created so much buzz about the potential top pick in the draft?
    You probably could've said that about Dwight Howard coming out too. Not that Nerlens is Dwight, but it's hard to project what a 19 year old big man will become.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    Above McLemore: Noel, Oladipo, Marcus Smart, Anthony Bennett, maybe Otto Porter
    Above Burke: CJ McCollum (underrated) , Michael Carter Williams, Jeff Withey(underrated)
    I think you could make the case on some of these, except for Withey. PASS. He's tall and that allowed him dominate in college, but he didn't demonstrate anything to me that will set him apart in the pros.
    Last edited by PR07; 04-10-2013 at 07:20 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 NBA draft prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    You probably could've said that about Dwight Howard coming out too. Not that Nerlens is Dwight, but it's hard to project what a 19 year old big man will become.



    I think you could make the case on some of these, except for Withey. PASS. He's tall and that allowed him dominate in college, but he didn't demonstrate anything to me that will set him apart in the pros.
    In 2013, there should be NO DOUBT about what you are getting when you are being drafted number 1. Anthony Davis, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Blake Griffin are all studs. Noel doesn't belong with those guys
    David "And One" West

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