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Thread: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

  1. #251
    play harder! focused444's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    ok roy the only thing i ask for is if you're around the rim SLAM IT HOME BIG MAN!!!! no more layups

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    Default Re: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Good.

    I didn't want to change my avatar.
    I gotta change mine.
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  4. #253
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Trading a 1st rd pick for Marshon Brooks sounds great! Now that they have paid elite money to 2 mediocre players (Roy/DG), there probably is not enough money to go and get someone who can take over a game.
    Bittersweet about the signing. Glad to have Roy back but sad the Pacers will not contend for a title.
    I'm sorry, but Roy and DG do not get paid elite money. Elite money is was Deron Williams just signed. Neither get paid anything near that. Danny's contract isn't bad at all and is actually very movable if need be. Yeah Roy is getting overpaid, but not terribly overpaid.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Not only that, according to kstat it's not even possible, ever, in any circumstance, to break a verbal agreement.

    This entire story is a twisted joke.
    To be fair to Kstat, anyone who works based on verbal contracts (be it a lawyer of an agent) is really only going off their reputation (eg their word)

    Now one thing that I always laugh about is how "out of the loop" we as fans are. Unless you are the Portland GM, Pacers GM, or Roy's agent, you probably do not know everything that is going on. And I am willing to bet one (if not more) of them is confused right now, as well.

    All that said, this place really needed this news. I swear I thought people went crazy after 11/19, the past 2 weeks this place took it to a whole nother level.

    I just hope Roy doesnt break his verbal deal with the Pacers and back out
    Last edited by vapacersfan; 07-09-2012 at 05:12 PM.

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    Plumlee Fan Jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    I'll be glad to see him back.. dude is going to be pretty rich though.

  9. #256
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    Default Re: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Thank Christ.

    Why was this a seemingly difficult decision?
    Well I think I'm reasonable, at least in line with your thinking, and I thought it was a tough call. But the market has thinned out on options (for the money, not at center) so now Roy is one of the few difference makers you can get for the cash.

    However if they had gone cheaper at center and big money at another position then I think things could have worked out pretty well. If Nash had taken the 10m from the Pacers instead of the 9m from the Lakers, then spending 10 on him instead of 14 on Roy seems pretty darn interesting, and it would only have lasted one less year.


    It's water under the bridge now. Roy has earned some cash and with it some big time expectations. He's nice guy and a hard worker, but he's also had slumps that many of us suspect stem from drops in confidence. Well not living up to expectations can be a real gut punch to your confidence and can make a player press way too much.

    Roy won't slack from the payday (just like Danny didn't), but that's not the only barrier in play here. It's a long mountain to climb and it's not going to be easy.



    Money aside, who doesn't love Roy. Good citizen, good Pacer, lots of fun to root for when he gets it going.

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  11. #257
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Thank God.

    *whew*

    P.S. Puck Fortland

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    I'm sorry, but Roy and DG do not get paid elite money. Elite money is was Deron Williams just signed. Neither get paid anything near that. Danny's contract isn't bad at all and is actually very movable if need be. Yeah Roy is getting overpaid, but not terribly overpaid.
    Both are making $14mill a year! Roy just got max RFA money. DG is getting paid close to the same. Can the Pacers build a championship contender with 2 players like them taking up half the cap room?
    I guess it would be very hard if not impossible to get a star to come here. Nash would have been a perfect fit but he chose LA. Dwill or Howard would make us contenders right now - but they were never interested either. Kind of sux to have cap space and the only ones who will take it are current players who have no choice in the matter!

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Trading a 1st rd pick for Marshon Brooks sounds great! Now that they have paid elite money to 2 mediocre players (Roy/DG), there probably is not enough money to go and get someone who can take over a game.
    Bittersweet about the signing. Glad to have Roy back but sad the Pacers will not contend for a title.
    Please step away from my Wheaties!!!

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  17. #260

    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    Please step away from my Wheaties!!!
    Sorry dude! Maybe Roy will improve drastically and take us to title contention.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    We need a Pritch-slap pic/gif cause it may be needed a few more times.
    A little something I just threw together.

    Pritch-Slap.jpg

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Both are making $14mill a year! Roy just got max RFA money. DG is getting paid close to the same. Can the Pacers build a championship contender with 2 players like them taking up half the cap room?
    I guess it would be very hard if not impossible to get a star to come here. Nash would have been a perfect fit but he chose LA. Dwill or Howard would make us contenders right now - but they were never interested either. Kind of sux to have cap space and the only ones who will take it are current players who have no choice in the matter!
    Danny doesn't make $14 mil until the last year of his current contract which is 2013/2014. And I said Roy is getting overpaid, but its not way overpaid. Not so much that will put handcuffs on the FO from making moves. We still have flexibility even with both of their contracts.

    The best way to use this cap space will be trades in which we take on money. If the Lakers can make a move to get Steve Nash with their ridiculous payroll, the Pacers can make moves with having Roy and Danny's current contracts. West's 10 million dollars comes off the books next year too.

    You said Roy and Danny are getting paid elite money which is flat out wrong. Roy didn't get signed to the RFA max either. We could be paying him 5/76, but we aren't. Elite money is what Deron Williams just signed to. Last I checked their is $40 million dollars in difference between way Roy signed and what Deron signed.

  22. #263
    Obviously ur not a golfer 5_7_Clash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I gotta change mine.
    Here's my new avatar:


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    Default Re: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    Here's my new avatar:


    Hahaha... definitely beats mine.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Maybe Roy was in Portland to deliver this:

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Pacers’ decision to retain Roy Hibbert opens door to free agency chess match | Sports Illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Lowe
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    On Monday came news that the Pacers will match the Blazers’ four-year, $58 million offer sheet for Roy Hibbert, a move that makes sense considering the scarcity of good two-way centers and creates all sorts of possibilities over the first 72 hours of official free agency this week in Portland and Indiana, per Mike Wells of the Indianapolis Star.

    The Hibbert decision marks Indiana’s second free agency splurge of the month, with the Pacers already having agreed to a five-year, $40 million contract with George Hill. And depending on how Indiana chooses to time these transactions after league business resumes on July 11, the Pacers may yet be a major player for another mid-tier free agent — perhaps a shooting guard such as O.J. Mayo or Lou Williams, or a power forward (Carl Landry?) who could help fill Indiana’s thin big man rotation.

    The timing is everything. The Pacers have 72 hours after midnight on July 11 to match Hibbert’s offer sheet. They could, in theory, wait that long, or longer, to make Hill’s deal official. During that waiting period, Hibbert and Hill would count for only about $10.3 million combined on Indiana’s cap sheet via charges, called cap holds, linked to their old salaries. Add those charges to the Pacers’ committed salary, and Indiana could have about $10 million in cap space to use over those hours — assuming the Pacers renounce their rights to Leandro Barbosa. If they’re nervous about Hill drawing interest elsewhere, they could make that contract official fast and still have about $6.5 million in cap space to use before matching on Hibbert. That number could jump a little bit if Dahntay Jones officially signs his player option right away. There’s also the possibility, reported first by David Aldridge of NBA.com, that Indiana negotiates an identical contract to the one Portland offered rather than forcing Hibbert to sign the offer sheet from Portland and then matching that offer sheet.

    This may not amount to anything for the Pacers, of course. There are lots of moving parts, several other teams who can influence all these moving parts and no guarantee of finding anyone for that cap space. They may also just choose to lock up their own guys immediately and move along. It’s just a reminder that the Pacers are lean enough to maintain some flexibility while still retaining two core players. Heck, the Hill and Hibbert deals combined give Indiana only about $41 million in committed salary for 2013-14, raising the possibility of near-max level cap room again next summer — though cap holds for David West, Tyler Hansbrough and Darren Collison will eat up all that cap space at first.

    Still, Indiana can overpay Hibbert just a bit without compromising its future, especially since none of the above West/Hansbrough/Collison trio are guaranteed core spots in that future.

    Hibbert, of course, is the centerpiece of the team’s future at this point. He probably isn’t quite worth a near-max deal in cold calculating terms, but he’s a center who helps on both sides of the ball and doesn’t actively hurt his team in any way. Those are rare commodities, and they get compensated as such. The Pacers in the regular-season were a borderline elite team with Hibbert on the floor and a break-even one with him on the bench, and in the playoffs, the gap widened to the point of absurdity.

    The main issue holding Hibbert back from true “franchise player” status is the fact that he isn’t on the court enough. He has never averaged more than 30 minutes per game in the regular-season and exceeded 34 minutes just once in 11 playoff games last season — mostly due to a combination of typical big man fatigue and occasional foul trouble. Hibbert has cut his fouls-per-minute rate in each of the last three seasons, a micro example of the larger overall improvement Hibbert shows every year.

    Hibbert has become a very effective player from the foul line in on both sides of the floor. He has dialed back the mid-range jumpers to develop a solid post game that requires opponent double teams almost every night. Indiana designed entire sets around his ability to hit cutters with creative passes. And he can still hit that mid-range jumper if you give him the space and time to hit it. On defense Hibbert is a legit shot-blocker and rim protector, and he’s gotten smart about how he slides his feet on the edges of the paint to cut off passing lanes, deter drives and make things difficult for opposing offenses.

    Excelling above the foul line is next frontier, and given Hibbert’s slow-ish feet and sheer size, he’s likely never going to be Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler in terms of disrupting pick-and-rolls at the three-point arc or catching a pocket pass at the foul line and exploding for a dunk in two ultra-quick steps. And that’s fine. Andrew Bynum probably isn’t going to do those things either, and he’ll deserve the max contract he gets a year from now. Most centers can’t do those things.

    Hibbert will improve here and there with experience. He’s already shown some potential as a guy who can set a pick, roll to the elbow, make a catch and hurt defenses from there as a passer or via a dribble hand-off/screen. He’ll learn tricks on defense that allow him to cover more ground when he has to. He’ll get better at rumbling in for an occasional pick-and-roll bucket.

    In other words, Hibbert isn’t a franchise-changing superstar, but he’s a fine two-way center, and those are worth big money. I might be wrong, but I’d wager today that the Pacers are more likely to regret paying Hill $40 million over five years than paying Hibbert $58 million over four.

    As for the Blazers, they are an in for an interesting first 72 hours of free agency, waiting on the Pacers to officially act on Hibbert as they decide whether to match Minnesota’s monster four-year, $45 million offer sheet for Nicolas Batum. Hibbert soaks up about $13 million of Portland’s cap space as long as Indiana makes them wait it out, while Batum sits on their books as a cheap $5.3 million cap hold as Portland makes Minnesota playing the waiting game. The Blazers, in other words, can have hugely varying levels of cap space depending on how all these transactions go down, and losing both Batum and Hibbert outright would leave them with something along the lines of $32.4 in committed salary — more than $16 million below the minimum payroll floor each team must hit, and nearly $26 million below the cap. (Note: These numbers depend on the precise amount of Shawne Williams’ buyout, which will end up somewhere between $0 and the $3.1 million Williams’ could have earned via a player option).

    Even losing Hibbert and bringing back Batum at the price the Wolves have set would leave Portland with only about $44 million in committed salary — still below the minimum payroll floor.

    It will be interesting to watch Portland negotiate all this complexity. If they go for a total rebuild, as Kevin Arnovitz has ruminated upon here, perhaps they let the Wolves overpay for Batum and, in the process, remove a potential free agency competitor from next summer’s landscape. Portland could also add on some of that necessary team salary in this scenario by working a sign-and-trade with Minnesota for non-guaranteed or expiring contracts.

    Batum looks to be a solid two-way player, but he has not been an elite defensive stopper to this point, and he has yet to find consistency with any part of his offensive game beyond three-point shooting. There’s a very good player in there, but it’s unclear how much of that player will emerge in the NBA, and how much any team should pay to solve the mystery.

    Then again, Batum is only 23, and all the turmoil on the wing in Portland — especially the acquisition of Gerald Wallace in 2011 — has made it difficult at times for Batum to grasp a consistent role in Portland’s very best lineup combinations. Batum would only be the third veteran player, along with LaMarcus Aldridge and Wesley Matthews, due long-term money; might it be wise to lock him up as part of the franchise’s future? The Blazers can bring back Batum at this high price and still be pretty flexible going forward in terms of cap space, but perhaps not as flexible as Neil Olshey might like.

    The Pacers moving on Hibbert at least provides a bit of clarity here.

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    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Wow. Even if Roy doesn't sign the offer sheet this is nowhere near the scenario people here were talking about. Some of you guys made it sound like Roy was just going to walk away from it and that's not what happened at all. There's no egg on my face (or Kstats), because this isn't at all the scenario you guys were talking about. This was an agreement from all THREE parties involved to not waste time. You guys were talking like Hibbert would just say ... well screw Portland, I'm going over here!

    What more than likely happened was when the Pacers decided to match, they informed Portland they were wasting their time and with, and only with Hibberts agreement that he trusted the Pacers would honor their part of this, would he agree to not sign the Portland contract. Helps Portland not tie up money for no reason, and move on to their next target. Helps the Pacers have a shot at using the money to get Mayo, which helps the team (and Hibbert). This was all parties doing what was in each others best interest, not Hibbert just walking away like some of you thought he could, and would do.

    That's even if it's true. Which I kind of hope it is because what can happen now, is Portland can chase Brook Lopez and take a giant steaming crap on the Dwight Howard trade. Which I think would be just awesome.

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  30. #268
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Wow. Even if Roy doesn't sign the offer sheet this is nowhere near the scenario people here were talking about. Some of you guys made it sound like Roy was just going to walk away from it and that's not what happened at all. There's no egg on my face (or Kstats), because this isn't at all the scenario you guys were talking about. This was an agreement from all THREE parties involved to not waste time. You guys were talking like Hibbert would just say ... well screw Portland, I'm going over here!

    What more than likely happened was when the Pacers decided to match, they informed Portland they were wasting their time and with, and only with Hibberts agreement that he trusted the Pacers would honor their part of this, would he agree to not sign the Portland contract. Helps Portland not tie up money for no reason, and move on to their next target. Helps the Pacers have a shot at using the money to get Mayo, which helps the team (and Hibbert). This was all parties doing what was in each others best interest, not Hibbert just walking away like some of you thought he could, and would do.

    That's even if it's true. Which I kind of hope it is because what can happen now, is Portland can chase Brook Lopez and take a giant steaming crap on the Dwight Howard trade. Which I think would be just awesome.
    hmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I don't care who you are. If you knew anything about how the dynamics work with what we're discussing you wouldn't have the view you do.

    He's said it several times, here's just one.

    Question:




    Chris Madia ‏@c_madia

    @MikeWellsNBA Do the Pacers still have to match the Blazers offer even though Hibbert did not accept the offer? Answer:




    Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA

    @c_madia Hibbert will be signing Portland's offer sheet on July 11 Pretty obvious he accepted it. Secondly, here's from JULY ****ING FIRST, from David Aldridge.

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/0...s=iref:nbahpt2





    The Pacers are still likely to match the offer ..... But a source indicated Sunday that the organization would have to take a look at the offer before making a definitive commitment.

    The teamís owner, Herb Simon, has OKíd a decision to go either way depending on what the teamís new basketball operations group, led by team president Donnie Walsh and general manager Kevin Pritchard (Portlandís GM from 2007-10), ultimately recommend. So let me get this straight, Herb has OK'd a decision to go "either" way, and they want to look at the offer before deciding which way to go, but he hasn't agreed to sign it? Yeah, um .... sure.

    Ever since July 1st it's been crystal damn clear he's signing that offer sheet. People just don't want to see it and are stubborn and blind as can be.

    I'm going to have to take a break from this site. People have gotten nuttier than squirrel **** on here since free agency started.
    gotcha.... thanks for the clarification....lol

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  32. #269

    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Danny doesn't make $14 mil until the last year of his current contract which is 2013/2014. And I said Roy is getting overpaid, but its not way overpaid. Not so much that will put handcuffs on the FO from making moves. We still have flexibility even with both of their contracts.

    The best way to use this cap space will be trades in which we take on money. If the Lakers can make a move to get Steve Nash with their ridiculous payroll, the Pacers can make moves with having Roy and Danny's current contracts. West's 10 million dollars comes off the books next year too.

    You said Roy and Danny are getting paid elite money which is flat out wrong. Roy didn't get signed to the RFA max either. We could be paying him 5/76, but we aren't. Elite money is what Deron Williams just signed to. Last I checked their is $40 million dollars in difference between way Roy signed and what Deron signed.
    There is almost $28mill tied up in Granger and Hibbert. That was my main point not the other stuff. What hurts is that kind of money being tied up in two players and neither are even close to being elite. I would rather have Dwill than both of them.

  33. #270

    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    So, if Roy and his agent know that the Pacers are going to match, does that make it more likely they do not sign Portland's offer sheet and work out a deal that is for the same money but structured more how the Pacers would prefer? It would make sense to do it that way so that enormously huge bloated contract he is going to get doesn't hurt the team more than it has to.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    There is almost $28mill tied up in Granger and Hibbert. That was my main point not the other stuff. What hurts is that kind of money being tied up in two players and neither are even close to being elite. I would rather have Dwill than both of them.
    Really dude? Who wouldn't?
    Even if you find a magical way of dumping Granger and Hibbert, earning you $28m of cap space, do you really think you could attract someone? Sign a guy like D-Will? Be a destination for CP3?

    It sucks that Granger declined while his contract went up and that Hibbert will get paid a lot more than he deserves, but there isn't anything better out there that you could do
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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  37. #272
    Obviously ur not a golfer 5_7_Clash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    gotcha.... thanks for the clarification....lol
    I don't think that's fair. Bulletproof was spot-on here:

    People have gotten nuttier than squirrel **** on here since free agency started.
    And here:
    That's even if it's true. Which I kind of hope it is because what can happen now, is Portland can chase Brook Lopez and take a giant steaming crap on the Dwight Howard trade. Which I think would be just awesome.
    Last edited by 5_7_Clash; 07-09-2012 at 06:29 PM.

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  39. #273
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    hmmmm...



    gotcha.... thanks for the clarification....lol
    There's a difference between one party reneging on an agreed upon deal and all parties agreeing to not waste time but come to the same end result.

    If you can't see the difference then well .... I will avoid the moderation by just saying you're not a genius.

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  41. #274
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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    There's a difference between one party reneging on an agreed upon deal and all parties agreeing to not waste time but come to the same end result.

    If you can't see the difference then well .... I will avoid the moderation by just saying you're not a genius.
    Lol...yea..ok....maybe I should quote your other posts on the subject...theres about 5....look...its simple...its easy for people like myself to say I told you so on an internet message board to someone like you. Because Im simply brighter, more knowledgeable and more experienced than you. So message board or life, it will almost always play out that way. Thats not the point. We are supposed to be entitled to our opinions and be able to disagree without calling one another names and using less than flattering adjectives to describe those that disagree with us as well as speak to others in a condescending tone such as I am doing to you currently. Which is exactly what you and Kstat did to a number of us. Nothing worse than an internet know-it-all that doesnt know it all.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells: Pacers matching Roy's offer sheet!

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    There is almost $28mill tied up in Granger and Hibbert. That was my main point not the other stuff. What hurts is that kind of money being tied up in two players and neither are even close to being elite. I would rather have Dwill than both of them.
    Yet we still can make moves. The Lakers have nearly that much tied up in Kobe alone and still wheel and deal. $28 mil for your two most important players (for 1 season btw) is not bad. We have two all star caliber players for the cost of Kobe's contract. Thats not bad. You are too worried about the cap, teams that win go over the cap. Look more at the luxury tax, which is what Simon wants to avoid. Thats going to be around $70 million.

    Its pretty clear that the salary cap means very little in the NBA. Franchises that want to win will go over it. LA, Miami, Dallas, NYK, Boston, and so on all go over the cap. Indiana back when we were competing at the top were always over the cap. Thats just how it works. Don't worry about the $58 million cap, look at the $70 million luxury tax. Thats when the Pacers will back off from signing players.

    There is a ton of room for the FO to play with still. Danny's contract is pretty damn fair. And Roy's isn't that bad. Neither get close to elite money.

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