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Thread: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

  1. #151
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    If that Pacer fans spends a $1000 of their money with the team every year, then that fan has every right to go tell Simon to F-off if what the article is insinuating is true. The fans expect the Front Office and Ownership to be committed to building a team capable of winning a championship. Everyone knows from top to bottom that this team needs a real go to scorer. Simon doesn't get a pass just because he bought the team 30 years ago. He has been able to secure an awful lot of favorable contracts with the city to operate his business and own a team in this city.
    Simon LOSES money on this team every year. In the millions. He's been dedicated to keeping this franchise in this state for decades. He's made it clear he will only give the team to someone else who feels the same way when the time comes. Without him, there's no team to even consider spending $1,000 a year on.

    You have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give you a pass to be rude. I hate it when people can't make that distinction. You can show respect even while expressing your angry opinion! That should be the rule in general, but in the case of Herb Simon, his generosity and class especially so!

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  3. #152
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I honestly must have missed something. You keep quoting that number like you have seen an actual offer both on here & twitter. Where are you getting that from? I have never seen anyone link an actual story to it so I would be very interested in seeing that.
    Well, ****. My fault. I thought I'd read it from a better source. I did a search; turns out it was just a young guy who makes questionable reports on twitter. I thought it was someone else who had said it.

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  5. #153
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Well, ****. My fault. I thought I'd read it from a better source. I did a search; turns out it was just a young guy who makes questionable reports on twitter. I thought it was someone else who had said it.
    That offer was thrown out by someone that's legit too. I read/heard about our Nash offer from several places.

    And yes, one of the Simons is lined up to take over should something happy. I think Simon himself said that in a press conference.

    And Crawford got the same offer from us as Portland: 2 years/$10M. There was a third team to offer that as well but the Pacers offer was the first that went public.

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  7. #154
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Those rumors don't mean anything.
    Just the ones that imply we low ball, right? Those mean something, right?

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  9. #155
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    A 100 million dollars in luxury tax bills? I think that might even make Buss blink a couple times.
    The Lakers are about to start a local TV contract that nets them $300,000,000 a season.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I'm very confused by what else Simon could have done up until this point. Our camp clearly met with Gordon (before Phoenix btw) and probably came to the determination that he wanted a max contract (and that NO would match if we offered, a risky proposition to begin with). Increase our offer beyond practical sense for Nash? Commit to matching Roy already? I just don't understand not waiting another week or two to assess.

    I liked Bird a lot and I'm sorry to see him go but I have faith in our current front office's competence until they prove otherwise incompetent. Not sure how much to believe this article as well.
    I think the current uncertainty about Roy makes it look a lot worse than it probably is.

    But then again, if Roy is a Blazer next week, it's not really just a perception anymore.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If that's the case, then the relationship between Larry and Simon was really, really toxic.
    Toxic sounds like a poor choice of words to me. I think they're fond of one another. I think this is purely financial/philosophical. I think they like each other a lot.

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  13. #158
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Now here's some solid important information... the reason for hesitance on matching doesn't come from owner frugality as much as simple disagreement on Hibberts value. Again, the outstanding issue comes down to simply: if the FO decided Hibbert is worth 14/year, they'll match. If not, hes gone.

    If Bird didn't want to match him, then this is key info.
    It confuses me that Bird would allegedly feel that way. Roy is one of his guys, all the way.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Toxic sounds like a poor choice of words to me. I think they're fond of one another. I think this is purely financial/philosophical. I think they like each other a lot.
    If the relationship was "toxic" Bird wouldn't have attended the press conference with Simon, Pritchard, and Walsh. It's pretty clear they're all still close and have a good relationship.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    That offer was thrown out by someone that's legit too. I read/heard about our Nash offer from several places.
    Do you think you can find one of the other sources of that claim?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    If the relationship was "toxic" Bird wouldn't have attended the press conference with Simon, Pritchard, and Walsh. It's pretty clear they're all still close and have a good relationship.
    Not to mention the part where they're still all sitting around together watching the summer league team practice, and how Bird ran the draft.

  19. #162
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It confuses me that Bird would allegedly feel that way. Roy is one of his guys, all the way.
    Well... Back in the winter when Roy had his annual mid-season swoon I commented that his agent is probably kicking himself for not going for the extension afterall... and that the FO might've just went from wondering if Roy was worth the max to wondering if they even wanted to retain him. It was a little hyperbole to make a point but I'm starting to wonder if I was closer to the mark than I might've thought.

    And this is bugging me... On the talk of Gordon and NO's insistence they will match. How do we know they aren't bluffing or angling for a trade so they aren't left high and dry? What's bugging me is back when Brad Miller was here and this game was being played out Walsh was quoted as saying if someone threw out a number that was big enough we just wouldn't be able to match it. I never understood that. Why telegraph to other teams that a player you allegedly should be keeping, is actually available and you won't match them? Wouldn't it have been smarter to say you'll match, or just say nothing? I think NO's saying they'll match no matter what is a whole lot smarter than telegraphing to other teams- "Make your offers, there's a line we won't cross so our guy is available of you want him". One way discourages suitors and reduces bidders, even if your bluffing. The other way encourages bidders and practically guarantees you've increased the demand side of the equation.

    At least they haven't done that with Hibbert, but all leaks seem to be opening that possibility.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  21. #163

    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It confuses me that Bird would allegedly feel that way. Roy is one of his guys, all the way.
    Bird seems to be less sentimental about some of "his guys" than most of us think. Everyone believes that Lance is one of his favorites but Lance may just represent untapped talent to Bird and the minute Lance proved otherwise he would be gone. If Roy is not a Bird guy then who would be?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Simon LOSES money on this team every year. In the millions.
    ...not for much longer when the new CBA really kicks in... I'd imagine a good chunk of that $107 million the Nets are about to be taxed will be going straight into his pockets.

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  24. #165
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    that and a nice couple of millions being Pacers share of away games with the Lakers (about 1 mio per game)
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    There has been a lot of empty Mall space during the downturn.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...not for much longer when the new CBA really kicks in... I'd imagine a good chunk of that $107 million the Nets are about to be taxed will be going straight into his pockets.
    Which doesn't neccesarily entice small market owners like simon to overpay. It's almost more beneficial to them if the big markets are better than they are.
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    I don't mind that Simon is being prudent, it's his money and he can do whatever he choose to do with it. However, it's just the thought that this team is sooooooooooooo close. I'd hate to see it regress or fall back into mediocrity when we're pretty much just one big piece away. Additionally, if Hibbert bolts, all the strides that this team has made the past two seasons will be lost.

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  31. #169
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    Which doesn't neccesarily entice small market owners like simon to overpay. It's almost more beneficial to them if the big markets are better than they are.
    yes, but it also gives you more money to re-invest into your product.

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  33. #170
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    And Simon is a businessman more than a competitor. He might be competitive in business ventures, but a quest for money/assets is different than a quest for a trophy. So it very well could be his goals for the team are vastly different than someone like Birds might be.

    And it would explain Walsh's return.... I could see Bird suggesting Walsh if that is the way Simon wants to run the team.

    But this is not the way to run a team if you want to fill the seats with rabid fans and get the bandwagon rolling. There can never be a good enough. There should always be a striving to improve long term, as well as the understanding short term pain can lead to long term gain.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    -John Wooden

  34. #171

    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    yes, but it also gives you more money to re-invest into your product.
    I suppose it does, but also less incentive to invest money into your product.
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

  35. #172

    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    yes, but it also gives you more money to re-invest into your product.
    And also allows you to find buyers who do not have to take on much long term debt which is exactly what concerns me. You sell off pieces before you sell. A guy closing in on 80 has to decide what to do with his hobbies if family members are or aren't interested.

    Herb bought out Mel's shares since Mel's heirs didn't want the team. We'll see if Herb's heirs feel the same way.
    Last edited by speakout4; 07-08-2012 at 12:03 PM.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    he's better off doing that than leaving it to a family member that doesn't want the team.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    yes, but it also gives you more money to re-invest into your product.
    It could also make those owners to not give a damn because either way they are making money.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It could also make those owners to not give a damn because either way they are making money.
    ...because when they were losing money they spent so much more of it?

    you're more likely to invest money into a product that you're making a profit on and make even more money.

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