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Thread: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Yes, but the fans... and general populace needs to believe they are latching onto something that's going to grow into something bigger and better. Not just something that will be considered 'good enough' with nothing but minor tweaks while other teams continue to improve.
    What exactly does that mean though? Are you saying bringin back your own young guys and adding some moderately priced (if 8 to 10 mil a year guys are considered moderatley priced these days) pieces isn't enough to have more than a spattering of fans show up? Does that mean that the owner absolutely has to bring in a new max contract guy every year that didn't end in a championship? Price be damned? If the general fanbase in Indiana has an attitude that they aren't willing to show up unless the owner is going broke, then honestly the team needs to move somehwere that will support them ASAP.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Ummm what elite unrestricted free agents are we not willing to spend enough money on this year? Gordon is going back to the Hornets whether he likes it or not, from the sound of things right now. Maybe we can swing a trade for him later so NO doesn't give him up for nothing? Nash and Williams obviously had no interest in coming here, so who else were we supposed to throw money at? Crawford? Please.

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  4. #128
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    What exactly does that mean though? Are you saying bringin back your own young guys and adding some moderately priced (if 8 to 10 mil a year guys are considered moderatley priced these days) pieces isn't enough to have more than a spattering of fans show up? Does that mean that the owner absolutely has to bring in a new max contract guy every year that didn't end in a championship? Price be damned? If the general fanbase in Indiana has an attitude that they aren't willing to show up unless the owner is going broke, then honestly the team needs to move somehwere that will support them ASAP.
    It means the President of Basketball Operations shouldn't feel compelled to leave because he feels the team's owner doesn't want to do what is necessary to get to the next level. Be it spend money, pursue RFA's, pursue FA's, trade away fan favorites, trade away owner favorites, whatever....

    So it really doesn't matter what the details actually are specifically, it matters that Bird feels the FO is satisfied as-is and wants to coast for a while. That tells us a lot, even if it does leave some questions.
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I read the article twice and it seems highly speculative to me, and I dont really buy it as the article suggests. So Bird tells Simon we need another scorer and Herb refuses, so Bird leaves. Does anyone think it is that simple. Doesn't ring true to me
    It may be speculative, but it makes perfect sense when you look at the comments Bird made in late May. No one can gloss over the fact that Bird sounded extremely excited about coming back the week after the Heat eliminated us when he said "I'd do it today if Herbie was here". Bird is a man of few words when it comes to talking with the media, so him saying that was very significant. That was a man who was VERY clear about wanting to come back. Then all of the sudden a couple weeks ago we hear that he has "health issues" and is leaving. Now it's always possible that the health issues became significantly worse over the past month, but I have a hard time buying that. I think the spending issue is much more likely. By late May when Bird said he wanted to come back, he would have had PLENTY of time to address his health situation.

    As others have said in his thread, Bird is a competitor. I just don't buy that he would stay here for all of these crappy seasons and then leave when the team finally has a solid young roster and cap room if he really thought that he was going to have the freedom to do whatever he wanted to take this team to the next step.

    If we don't match on Roy then that pretty much proves that we are tight and that we have ownership issues as far as spending money is concerned. If they decide to be tight with their money then I'll be tight with mine. I'm a young person who doesn't have an abundance of money, so I will be happy to cut back on spending money for a team who is completely content with mediocrity. But I'll wait and see what they do with Roy before I decide to cut back on the number of games I go to a year.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 07-08-2012 at 01:52 AM.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    They have been bottom 5 in attendance by their own doing!

    All these other teams who have been terrible for many many years, and have rebuilded with lottery picks and who may still be terrible have averaged a higher attendance than the Pacers! They probably should have really blew the team up and tanked it properly for atleast one year to get the high lottery pick.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    My biggest Beef with Bird and how he has handled this is letting it leak to the media like this. He should kept quite until after the summer league and FA period. Atleast give our team the perception of continuity. Then once the off season matters are handled he could have easily come out with some BS story about needing surgery so bad and bringing Walsh back. But know we get this 2 days before the freaking draft......

    i honestly think this sudden change in management has hurt our team's perception among Free Agents.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  12. #132
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Keep in mind this year wasn't the first year that Bird mentioned the willingness of ownership to spend money. To me that clearly says he has had some concerns there for some reason.

    BTW... Kravitz is saying that had Bird stayed there's even LESS chance that the Pacers would've matched on Roy. So that's certainly some interesting info or speculation...
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...yssey=nav|head
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    They have been bottom 5 in attendance by their own doing!

    All these other teams who have been terrible for many many years, and have rebuilded with lottery picks and who may still be terrible have averaged a higher attendance than the Pacers! They probably should have really blew the team up and tanked it properly for atleast one year to get the high lottery pick.
    I'm sorry, were we not the fifth best team in the NBA last season? Are the players on this team not outstanding in the community as well? There is absolutely no reason why this team should be bottom five in attendance.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Of course Dwill isn't Simons fault. But Gordon yes if we offer him a fair deal and make him our fotf Right now his quotes would be my heart is in Indy.
    Hypothetically, let's say we offered Gordon a max contract like Phoenix. P4E, of all people, I know that you know New Orleans will match any offer since the new ownership can't afford to let Gordon leave right after buying the team.

    So why are we mad at Simon again? Even if we had offered him a max and he had put pen to paper, right back to New Orleans he would go.

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    I think it's the effort that people want to see.

    Put it this way, we will know how pissed off Larry is by how soon it takes for him to take a new job.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    I'm very confused by what else Simon could have done up until this point. Our camp clearly met with Gordon (before Phoenix btw) and probably came to the determination that he wanted a max contract (and that NO would match if we offered, a risky proposition to begin with). Increase our offer beyond practical sense for Nash? Commit to matching Roy already? I just don't understand not waiting another week or two to assess.

    I liked Bird a lot and I'm sorry to see him go but I have faith in our current front office's competence until they prove otherwise incompetent. Not sure how much to believe this article as well.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    BTW... Kravitz is saying that had Bird stayed there's even LESS chance that the Pacers would've matched on Roy.
    Wow. I could see that being the main issue. An owner would definitely want to keep a crowd favorite like Hibbs around. But from a basketball perspective, I could see the desire to let Roy go in order to find more strategic pieces.
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I think it's the effort that people want to see.

    Put it this way, we will know how pissed off Larry is by how soon it takes for him to take a new job.
    One year........

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    One year........
    If that's the case, then the relationship between Larry and Simon was really, really toxic.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If that's the case, then the relationship between Larry and Simon was really, really toxic.
    Oooooooooor he had his surgeries, and is now healed up. With the first job openings being one year from now, well .... seems pretty obvious.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    What exactly does that mean though? Are you saying bringin back your own young guys and adding some moderately priced (if 8 to 10 mil a year guys are considered moderatley priced these days) pieces isn't enough to have more than a spattering of fans show up? Does that mean that the owner absolutely has to bring in a new max contract guy every year that didn't end in a championship? Price be damned? If the general fanbase in Indiana has an attitude that they aren't willing to show up unless the owner is going broke, then honestly the team needs to move somehwere that will support them ASAP.
    Fans are attracted to star power. The Pacers do not have any star power and they are not a good draw on the road or at home.....

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I don't want to overpay for Mayo. I'm still kind of annoyed that we overpaid for Hill.
    I agree; but, at least we overpay someone who WANTS to be here.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Oooooooooor he had his surgeries, and is now healed up. With the first job openings being one year from now, well .... seems pretty obvious.
    If that was the case, he'd have simply stepped away for a year instead of forfeiting his job.

    I'm still open to the theory that his health issues prevented him from doing his job, but that gets wiped away if he's back in the game within a year.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    name an all star quality guy who can get to the rim at will and shoot like both Deron and Eric can. This was our last shot to add before paying our own. Literally Deron and EJ fit the bill of our last remaining key piece we needed to a tee but we didnt go after one of them.

    Who knows what the reminder of the off season holds??? I know one thing we aren't getting a difference maker to take us to a championship caliber team like we could of if we went after one RFA.


    It's fine if you want to sugar coat and be unrealistic it but im not really into that kind of thing.
    I understand what you're saying...but who's to say that, for example, Deron's agent basically told us "Sorry, but my client doesn't even want to consider Indy." I feel this is the case for free-agents about Indiana. Besides West and Stephen Jackson, how many DECENT free agents actually chose to come here? I'm always hearing about players talking mostly about LA, Chicago, New York, Boston, or mostly other coastal or big market cities.

    I remember reading an article about Antonio Davis after first going to Toronto, and he said that Toronto was more "culturally diversified" than Indianapolis. Since then, I've wondered if many players look at our state as some backwards, corn-fed, boring place to be; and, that may of factored in their decision about coming here. This is why I don't expect BIG, BIG name free agents to ever consider us in any list of places they WANT to go.

    Also, the deal with Herb Simon about not signing anyone....look at our attendance over the last 7-8 years. Alot of fans turned on the Pacers whether it be the brawl, spending more money on the Colts, not liking the product on the floor, etc, etc. But, many other teams may have worse players and alot less wins, and yet, still have a full house, or close to it. I remember seeing an article saying we were close to Charlotte in attendance; but, we were, at the time, one of the top four teams in the east, and Charlotte only won about 4 or 5 games. I'm thinking Simon looks at us as fickle fans, and figures if he took a chance on a RFA, and it didn't pan out, we'd quit going to the games, and he'd lose more money than most owners.

    Of course, these are just my own opinions

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    BTW... Kravitz is saying that had Bird stayed there's even LESS chance that the Pacers would've matched on Roy. So that's certainly some interesting info or speculation...
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...yssey=nav|head
    Now here's some solid important information... the reason for hesitance on matching doesn't come from owner frugality as much as simple disagreement on Hibberts value. Again, the outstanding issue comes down to simply: if the FO decided Hibbert is worth 14/year, they'll match. If not, hes gone.

    If Bird didn't want to match him, then this is key info.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Maybe Bird wanted to go all in on DH or DWill. I agree that we can't spend money just to spend money (ala Joe Dumars a couple of years ago), but we were flirting with the minimum salary cap last year. And, barring matching Roy, then we will be doing the same again this year. I keep reading that Simon doesn't want to go over the LT line, but what about the regular cap? It doesn't feel like he even wants to approach even that anymore. If your owner doesn't want to spend the money, then why would a casual fan want to? I mean, it isn't like no one knows about the financial empire known as Simon Properties. Heck, they have a mall down here in Port Charlotte, Florida, for God's sake.
    Last edited by mildlysane; 07-08-2012 at 10:24 AM. Reason: can't type

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Now here's some solid important information... the reason for hesitance on matching doesn't come from owner frugality as much as simple disagreement on Hibberts value. Again, the outstanding issue comes down to simply: if the FO decided Hibbert is worth 14/year, they'll match. If not, hes gone.

    If Bird didn't want to match him, then this is key info.
    It's the lead and it keeps getting buried. It could mean one of several things.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    For anyone, who watched the Sportscenter "Larry Bird: One-on-One" Part II, Larry said something along the lines of, "For a team like the Heat, they're goal is to win a title. For a small market team, our goal is to simply make it to the Finals."

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Crawford last year? remember that it was reported that he wanted more money? you keep also telling us that we offered Nash 10mil?
    I thought Portland offered the same or pretty close to the same money but he chose them because it was somewhat of a home town thing and later we've heard they got tired of waiting for us to figure out the McRoberts/Mayo trade.

    I don't have the Nash info in front of me, but unless I'm wrong, someone will be able to back me up on seeing that.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If they don't match Roy I'm really starting to wonder if another part of the 'why' to the question of not spending is to get the team in some kind of good financial shape for a sale or possibly transfer to family. It's been said Simon's son isn't interested but I have no idea if that is true or not. But the 'who' doesn't matter as much to the 'why'.
    There's another son besides the 'not interested' one, and I could have sworn within the past couple of weeks I either heard or read his name and that he was going to be the next owner of the team if they don't sell it from the family.

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