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Thread: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    There are differing opinions on this.
    Indeed. But ultimately, the one that matters rests with the man writing the checks.

    I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. Assuming the article is correct, how on earth can anyone justify Simon going into the luxury tax when the pacers have one of the worst attendance records in the NBA?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    We offered Nash 10m per. We're giving George Hill 8m per.

    Something doesn't add up.
    I honestly must have missed something. You keep quoting that number like you have seen an actual offer both on here & twitter. Where are you getting that from? I have never seen anyone link an actual story to it so I would be very interested in seeing that.


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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    And with the luxury tax about to become FAR more punitive as well. Brooklyn is going to get HAMMERED by it if they land Howard.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    And with the luxury tax about to become FAR more punitive as well. Brooklyn is going to get HAMMERED by it if they land Howard.
    But that is the real problem of not having a hard cap.

    Some owners with deep enough pockets and big enough markets just won't care. Most will obviously, but L.A., N.Y. & maybe Arisom (sp?) will probably just thumb thier nose at it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Lets be honest....with whats going on in Miami, New York, New Jersey, Boston and LAx2, we arent gonna be winning a title anytime soon anyway....and Simon knows this...so why break the bank trying...Birds a competitor....he wants to try...maybe Bird will end up with Cuban and Carlisle in Dallas...that would probably be an interesting combination...Cuban is gonna need something to revitalize the whole franchise after this upcoming season and bringing Bird on board might be just what the doctor ordered...

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. Assuming the article is correct, how on earth can anyone justify Simon going into the luxury tax when the pacers have one of the worst attendance records in the NBA?
    Is the point really the luxury tax, or just spending aggressively in general?

    That said.... How can you expect to energize and grow the fanbase if you don't invest in the team to the point that it continues to strive to be better... not stagnate or regress?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Is the point really the luxury tax, or just spending aggressively in general?

    That said.... How can you expect to energize and grow the fanbase if you don't invest in the team to the point that it continues to strive to be better... not stagnate or regress?
    Nothing is to good for you when we are spending other people's money! Just kidding!!!!

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    If that's the case, then why did we slightly overpay for George Hill, and why are there constant rumors of us going after Mayo & Brand? Doesn't make sense.
    Those rumors don't mean anything.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Lets be honest....with whats going on in Miami, New York, New Jersey, Boston and LAx2, we arent gonna be winning a title anytime soon anyway....and Simon knows this...so why break the bank trying...

    Honestly... I think that's a cop out. I heard that same thing in 99 and especially 2000. And even if it is true, then why wouldn't you be tanking at every opportunity while these 'scary' teams are in your way?

    But to me, a lot can change with these 'scary' teams. Chemistry issues, free agency, injuries, age, egos, etc.. Look how short-lived in the bigger picture the 'dominant' Kobe-Shaq Lakers turned out to be.

    You just have to keep trying to plug the holes, build teams that can attack those teams' weaknesses, and see what happens. Also, you aren't likely going to have to beat them all. In some cases other teams will do you a favor... or one of them will take the other out...

    And there's no shame in making the Finals only to lose. You can reload, bring your experience, and try and do it again... just a little better.

    Birds a competitor....he wants to try...maybe Bird will end up with Cuban and Carlisle in Dallas...that would probably be an interesting combination...Cuban is gonna need something to revitalize the whole franchise after this upcoming season and bringing Bird on board might be just what the doctor ordered...
    Interesting thought...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Is the point really the luxury tax, or just spending aggressively in general?

    That said.... How can you expect to energize and grow the fanbase if you don't invest in the team to the point that it continues to strive to be better... not stagnate or regress?
    The point pretty much has to be the LT at this stage. No one has signed a free agent yet, so we have no idea what sort of signings the team has planned.

    And as far as the fanbase is concerned, I would think putting together a team of well liked players that are active in the community, who have shown they can compete in the playoffs should be enough to get the fieldhouse out of embarrassing attendance levels.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    both SAS and OKC dont have to spend in free agency because they completely rebuilt their team from the ground up we didn't. If we had a Durant Westbrook and Harden no one would be asking to spend in free agency. But we didn't build the way they did. We drafted mid teens every season instead of drafting top 5 and drafting top 5 talent like Duncan and Durant, Westbrook, Harden we drafted well in the mid teens for the most part. But expecting to build a championship core by drafting mid teens every year is just impossible. The way the team was built we needed to get a free agent elite talent and we have failed.


    Comparing us to OKC and the Spurs is just silly.

    Gee, thanks for all that great information. Aside from Miami who else has built a team in free agency?

    I am not comparing our team to OKC and San Antonio from a team perspective, I am talking about the approach they take in business.

    San Antonio finds guys like Danny Green and Gary Neal who are under the radar, that fit their system and go from there. OKC does the same thing with their role players and trades.

    Look at the teams taking big swings. Gee, being in the same class as Phoenix, Houston, Toronto and Portland, sounds really appealing, doesn't it?

    People are hilarious, they claim "Simon doesn't want to win" and they are citing the fact we don't follow the leads of franchises that are not very well run.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    And as far as the fanbase is concerned, I would think putting together a team of well liked players that are active in the community, who have shown they can compete in the playoffs should be enough to get the fieldhouse out of embarrassing attendance levels.

    Nope it's not enough.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    And for what it is worth we are not talking about elite level talent, we are talking about paying max money for Eric Gordon. Big difference.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Nope it's not enough.
    Good deal. Then take your time and energy elsewhere. Root for the Lakers.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Gee, thanks for all that great information. Aside from Miami who else has built a team in free agency?

    I am not comparing our team to OKC and San Antonio from a team perspective, I am talking about the approach they take in business.

    San Antonio finds guys like Danny Green and Gary Neal who are under the radar, that fit their system and go from there. OKC does the same thing with their role players and trades.

    Look at the teams taking big swings. Gee, being in the same class as Phoenix, Houston, Toronto and Portland, sounds really appealing, doesn't it?

    People are hilarious, they claim "Simon doesn't want to win" and they are citing the fact we don't follow the leads of franchises that are not very well run.
    LA Lakers and Boston hell even the Knicks built their team on money and free agency/ trade and could care less about the draft. Most big market teams act that way.



    When is the last time the Lakers actually had a 1st rd pick???





    and again finding guys like Danny Green and Gary Neal would be fine if we had that group around them Parker Duncan ect. Our problem is we find guys like Neal and Green yet we dont have the elite guys.



    and again adding Gordon wouldn't guarantee anything(no one in the NBA is guaranteed anything) But it would put us at a level of a championship level team we may not be as good as Miami or OKC but in a 7 game series we would have a legit shot of winning.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    But that is the real problem of not having a hard cap.

    Some owners with deep enough pockets and big enough markets just won't care. Most will obviously, but L.A., N.Y. & maybe Arisom (sp?) will probably just thumb thier nose at it.
    A 100 million dollars in luxury tax bills? I think that might even make Buss blink a couple times.
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    A 100 million dollars in luxury tax bills? I think that might even make Buss blink a couple times.
    The Russian guy doesn't give a damn about the luxury tax and other teams are happy he doesn't give a damn so they can get some of that money.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Yes, but the fans... and general populace needs to believe they are latching onto something that's going to grow into something bigger and better. Not just something that will be considered 'good enough' with nothing but minor tweaks while other teams continue to improve.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    You gotta be freaking kidding me with this. The Colts are very cheap when it comes to Free Agency. They have never went out and tried to make a big splash in FA. They relied on Manning to essentially make everyone better than they really are.
    the colts were never able to go out and spend due to that boat anchor of a contract that Manning demanded.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    And for what it is worth we are not talking about elite level talent, we are talking about paying max money for Eric Gordon. Big difference.
    Nobody here (that's talking anyway) really knows who we are talking about. It could be Gordon.... it could be Gordon among others... it could not be Gordon at all. It could be hypothetical players that Herb closed the door on in principle.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  34. #121
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Look...we all are dancin around the obvious...Birds a competitor...we all know that...after all hes been thru with this team and to finally get it on the right track....theres no way he was walking away if he felt like he had a snowballs chance in hell of doing what needs to be done to compete for a title....when he walked away...it pretty much told us everything we needed to know...and it had nothing to do with his back or anything else....it pretty much sucks for us...but he knows best...and he chose to walk away...which had to be incredibly hard for him given all hes been thru and the competitor he is....so....

    But this article pretty much ensures Hibbert will be matched...not that there was ever really a question...and its also gonna be interesting to see how everyone handles this, because its pretty much a PR nitemare at a critical time for the franchise...
    Last edited by cinotimz; 07-08-2012 at 12:48 AM.

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  36. #122
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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Look...we all are dancin around the obvious...Birds a competitor...we all know that...after all hes been thru with this team and to finally get it on the right track....theres no way he was walking away if he felt like he had a snowballs chance in hell of doing what needs to be done to compete for a title....when he walked away...it pretty much told us everything we needed to know...and it had nothing to do with his back or anything else....it pretty much sucks for us...be he knows...and he chose to walk away...which had to be incredibly hard for him given all hes been thru and the competitor he is....so....

    But this article pretty much ensures Hibbert will be matched...not that there was ever really a question...and its also gonna be interesting to see how everyone handles this, because its pretty much a PR nitemare at a critical time for the franchise...
    I don't know if Hibbert will be matched or not... But I agree with everything else you just said.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    IMO this situation is a lot like PHX when they let Joe Johnson walk to the Hawks. Suns were a better team than us obviously IMO but letting JJ walk cost the Suns a title or two. The Suns just lacked that one piece in the late Nash years and they let him walk due to money.

    the Suns only offered him $60 million over six years (Atlanta gave him $70 million for five). But J.J like EJ let it be know he didnt want to be matched.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    This not going after elite free agents drives me crazy because the Pacers consistently pass on potential star players in the draft for safe good guys. If they would take a chance on these players in the first place, they would be in a better position.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Is the point really the luxury tax, or just spending aggressively in general?

    That said.... How can you expect to energize and grow the fanbase if you don't invest in the team to the point that it continues to strive to be better... not stagnate or regress?
    Agree 100%, however I say that with great respect for Herb and the late Mel.
    "Can you take away every single day that we have given to another false prophet" -- Corey Taylor

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