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Thread: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

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    Default NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1109705

    By Mitch Lawrence

    Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame

    Pacers owner Herb Simon turned down the NBA legend's request to add a scorer, even after the Pacers had problems generating offense against the Miami Heat in their second-round playoff loss.

    The old Celtics players network was buzzing after Larry Bird stepped down as Indiana’s president and not because Bird quit after nine seasons in the team’s front office.

    Bird told some old teammates that he was actually leaning toward staying on and had indicated that in a meeting in late June with owner Herb Simon when they met to assess the Pacers’ needs. During the sit-down, Bird told Simon he liked the team a lot, but “we just need to add another piece.’’

    Nothing doing.

    Simon turned down Bird’s request to add a scorer, even after the Pacers had problems generating offense against the Miami Heat in their second-round playoff loss. Bird was thinking about getting into the Eric Gordon sweepstakes to make a run at the Hornets’ restricted free agent and former Indiana University star.


    Between health concerns about his shoulder and back and the fact that he doesn’t see himself as a lifer like other execs, including his successor Donnie Walsh, Bird likely used Simon’s rejection as an additional reason to hang it up, one old Celtic said.

    Simon, the shopping mall czar, could have easily picked up another big deal, even as the Pacers decided to re-sign point guard George Hill for $40 million over five years, and are expected to match Portland’s bloated $60 million offer sheet to retain starting center Roy Hibbert. According to Forbes, Simon, the chairman and director of the Simon Property Group, the largest publicly traded real estate investment trust in the U.S., had a net worth this past March of $1.8 billion.

    But Simon is also known to oppose paying the NBA luxury tax. After leaving, Bird shed some light on what he had to put up with, when asked about making the Pacers better.

    “Small market,’’ he said. “It’s tough.’’

    The NBA likes its icons, as it has been working behind the scenes with Michael Jordan to try to help get his Bobcats turned around. So it makes sense that the league would want Bird to come back in the future.

    “It’s got to be the right job, the right people,’’ he said about running another franchise. “I’ve got some interest in some jobs out there but whether I do it again, who knows.’’

    Bird has indicated to former teammates that he’s too old to be part of an ownership group, but it’s not as if he’s a geezer. He’ll turn 56 in December.

    We can see a return for Bird down the line, perhaps as a part-owner and the face of a franchise. The NBA will always welcome Larry Legend back, with open arms.

    ..........

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    If this is true, I am very disappointed in Simon.

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    Default

    Yikes.

    I worry for our future if Herb wont let us get a scorer.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    This isn't a smoking gun, but this is exactly what I was afraid of.

    After all of the years of trying to build & getting rid of bloated rotten contracts Bird was ready to see his new young team make that next step only to be told that he wouldn't have the resources to do it.

    I love what Simon has done for our franchise & I always will appreciate him for that. But if we don't get that extra piece and we don't re-sign Roy and or replace him with equal value then I have to question Simons real commitment to winning it all.

    I have a feeling that playoff games and winning season records might just be enough and the more I think about it the more that sounds like the 90's to me.

    Again, I'm not going to let an interview with un named sources who used to play with Bird make my final impression but honestly this goes into the pile of "hmmmmm...." when I think about this off season and the upcoming one.

    I told Diamond Dave the other night I have a feeling we should have had a parade after this season because I wonder if that is not as good as its going to get.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    I hope this isn't all true.. Specifically the conversation between Bird and Simon

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Gotta spend $ to make $ Herb... if this is your spending plan as a franchise, then you better be prepared to sit back and enjoy losing money every year.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    I was sure that Bird left because Simon really wouldn't let him build a winner...... None of this surprises me. I think Bird will sit out a year and comeback with another team in a large market to build an NBA champion......

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Is this really a surprise to anyone?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Is this really a surprise to anyone?
    Not a surprise, but it's concerning as I still cling to the dream of winning a title someday. My hope is all but gone, though.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Is this really a surprise to anyone?
    plus 1

    I said this the day Bird stepped day you dont go from "I love my job and cant wait to improve my team as long as the talks with Simon goes well"

    to quitting in 3 weeks. It was pretty obvious Bird wanted to get an Eric Gordon type RFA and Simon said no which is just sad. Bird isnt stupid he knows we need to add an elite talent and this free agency period was our last chance. Like I said Simon doesnt carry about a championship and not going after Gordon was proof you cant build a player who is a better fit for our team to get to the next level and we refuse to offer him a fair deal.\


    Plus when Bird talked to Jackie Mac it was pretty obvious he isn't coming back unless his owner wants to actually let him bulid a championship team.


    Simon is out of touch just retaining your own guys wont get us anywhere near a title contender and Bird knew this. We dont have the talent we did in 04 where just retaining would of been enough(if it wasn't for the brawl) we needed this free agency period more than anything.


    Gordon or Williams would of been the final piece but Simon is content with just trying to be a 4-8 seed trying to get out of the 2nd rd instead of trying to win it all

    If we were going by just retaining you cant build on that model by draft mid teens every year it wont work.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Bird isnt stupid he knows we need to add an elite talent and this free agency period was our last chance.
    I don't know that I would say this is our last chance. That's a bit too doom and gloom for me. Also, it's not like the season is starting tomorrow. Who knows what the remainder of this offseason holds.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I don't know that I would say this is our last chance. That's a bit too doom and gloom for me. Also, it's not like the season is starting tomorrow. Who knows what the remainder of this offseason holds.
    name an all star quality guy who can get to the rim at will and shoot like both Deron and Eric can. This was our last shot to add before paying our own. Literally Deron and EJ fit the bill of our last remaining key piece we needed to a tee but we didnt go after one of them.

    Who knows what the reminder of the off season holds??? I know one thing we aren't getting a difference maker to take us to a championship caliber team like we could of if we went after one RFA.


    It's fine if you want to sugar coat and be unrealistic it but im not really into that kind of thing.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    name an all star quality guy who can get to the rim at will and shoot like both Deron and Eric can. This was our last shot to add before paying our own. Literally Deron and EJ fit the bill of our last remaining key piece we needed to a tee but we didnt go after one of them.
    So the Pacers only chance was land D. Will who was never coming here, or EJ, who we met with? And we didn't land these guys because of Simon?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    name an all star quality guy who can get to the rim at will and shoot like both Deron and Eric can. This was our last shot to add before paying our own. Literally Deron and EJ fit the bill of our last remaining key piece we needed to a tee but we didnt go after one of them.

    Who knows what the reminder of the off season holds??? I know one thing we aren't getting a difference maker to take us to a championship caliber team like we could of if we went after one RFA.


    It's fine if you want to sugar coat and be unrealistic it but im not really into that kind of thing.
    I understand what you're saying...but who's to say that, for example, Deron's agent basically told us "Sorry, but my client doesn't even want to consider Indy." I feel this is the case for free-agents about Indiana. Besides West and Stephen Jackson, how many DECENT free agents actually chose to come here? I'm always hearing about players talking mostly about LA, Chicago, New York, Boston, or mostly other coastal or big market cities.

    I remember reading an article about Antonio Davis after first going to Toronto, and he said that Toronto was more "culturally diversified" than Indianapolis. Since then, I've wondered if many players look at our state as some backwards, corn-fed, boring place to be; and, that may of factored in their decision about coming here. This is why I don't expect BIG, BIG name free agents to ever consider us in any list of places they WANT to go.

    Also, the deal with Herb Simon about not signing anyone....look at our attendance over the last 7-8 years. Alot of fans turned on the Pacers whether it be the brawl, spending more money on the Colts, not liking the product on the floor, etc, etc. But, many other teams may have worse players and alot less wins, and yet, still have a full house, or close to it. I remember seeing an article saying we were close to Charlotte in attendance; but, we were, at the time, one of the top four teams in the east, and Charlotte only won about 4 or 5 games. I'm thinking Simon looks at us as fickle fans, and figures if he took a chance on a RFA, and it didn't pan out, we'd quit going to the games, and he'd lose more money than most owners.

    Of course, these are just my own opinions

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    name an all star quality guy who can get to the rim at will and shoot like both Deron and Eric can. This was our last shot to add before paying our own. Literally Deron and EJ fit the bill of our last remaining key piece we needed to a tee but we didnt go after one of them.

    Who knows what the reminder of the off season holds??? I know one thing we aren't getting a difference maker to take us to a championship caliber team like we could of if we went after one RFA.


    It's fine if you want to sugar coat and be unrealistic it but im not really into that kind of thing.
    I wanted Deron or Nash in a Pacers uniform too. The reality is that they had no interest in playing for Indiana. The Pacers made a pitch to Nash (rumored to be 10 million a year) but he wasn't interested.

    I don't think money was an issue there. I don't know if they dont like some of the players on the team or if they don't like the city but Free Agents don't like Indiana. It could be because the Pacers dont have a superstar on their team. No one is lining up to play for the Sixers either.

    Eric Gordon wanted to play for the Pacers but I can't blame the Pacers for not making a max contract offer for a player that hasn't proven he can stay healthy for a full season or even make it through a season without missing at least 20 games. They also knew that New Orleans were going to match any offer so why bother?

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I don't know that I would say this is our last chance. That's a bit too doom and gloom for me. Also, it's not like the season is starting tomorrow. Who knows what the remainder of this offseason holds.
    If this offseason isn't our last chance to get an elite scorer ie. Eric Gordon. Then explain how else Pacers are going to get an elite scorer? I think Pacer4ever is completely correct! Eric is an Addition to without the subtraction off!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Is this really a surprise to anyone?
    No but it still pisses me off.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    This sucks
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    **** you simon

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coupe View Post
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    **** you simon
    Settle down and show some respect. He deserves it. And he sure as hell deserves better than any Pacer fan having the nerve to say '**** you' to him. Absolutely ridiculous.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Settle down and show some respect. He deserves it. And he sure as hell deserves better than any Pacer fan having the nerve to say '**** you' to him. Absolutely ridiculous.
    If that Pacer fans spends a $1000 of their money with the team every year, then that fan has every right to go tell Simon to F-off if what the article is insinuating is true. The fans expect the Front Office and Ownership to be committed to building a team capable of winning a championship. Everyone knows from top to bottom that this team needs a real go to scorer. Simon doesn't get a pass just because he bought the team 30 years ago. He has been able to secure an awful lot of favorable contracts with the city to operate his business and own a team in this city.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    If that Pacer fans spends a $1000 of their money with the team every year, then that fan has every right to go tell Simon to F-off if what the article is insinuating is true. The fans expect the Front Office and Ownership to be committed to building a team capable of winning a championship. Everyone knows from top to bottom that this team needs a real go to scorer. Simon doesn't get a pass just because he bought the team 30 years ago. He has been able to secure an awful lot of favorable contracts with the city to operate his business and own a team in this city.
    Simon LOSES money on this team every year. In the millions. He's been dedicated to keeping this franchise in this state for decades. He's made it clear he will only give the team to someone else who feels the same way when the time comes. Without him, there's no team to even consider spending $1,000 a year on.

    You have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give you a pass to be rude. I hate it when people can't make that distinction. You can show respect even while expressing your angry opinion! That should be the rule in general, but in the case of Herb Simon, his generosity and class especially so!

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Simon LOSES money on this team every year. In the millions.
    ...not for much longer when the new CBA really kicks in... I'd imagine a good chunk of that $107 million the Nets are about to be taxed will be going straight into his pockets.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Simon LOSES money on this team every year. In the millions. He's been dedicated to keeping this franchise in this state for decades. He's made it clear he will only give the team to someone else who feels the same way when the time comes. Without him, there's no team to even consider spending $1,000 a year on.

    You have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give you a pass to be rude. I hate it when people can't make that distinction. You can show respect even while expressing your angry opinion! That should be the rule in general, but in the case of Herb Simon, his generosity and class especially so!
    Losing money on the team every year is his own doing, he chose the contract he signed with the city. He chose who ran the organization. Its not the fans fault that he loses money. And as for the last 5-6 years or so, he chose to okay the trade for crap players with terrible contracts. You can say the fans demanded it of him, but It really didn't do him any good in the short term. They should have stayed patient and dealt those problem players for better deals.

    Also we know with accounting tricks that the amount of money he loses every year is greatly exaggerated. Additionally with the new CBA and certain teams now willing to laugh at the Luxury tax penalties, Simon is going to re-coop a nice chunk of change from the other teams like NJ and NY.

    Lets please get off the idea that Herb is the patron saint of basketball in Indianapolis.
    We can't say in one sentence that he is a shrewd businessman who has made billions in the Indianapolis area, and then in the next say that he deserves our reverence because he has been flogged repeated for years from owning this franchise out the good of his heart.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 07-08-2012 at 12:24 PM.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: NY Daily News: 'Larry Bird flew the coop in Indiana and the Pacers' billionaire owner is partly to blame'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coupe View Post
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    **** you simon
    Beyond what the Simon family has done for us as Pacer fans, you should educated yourself on what they have done for this city, state, and humanity in general.

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