Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 90

Thread: Is Conrad right?

  1. #51
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,762

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    speaking of Conrad, anyone know why he isn't with the Pacers anymore?
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  2. #52
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,716

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hicks its really a tough call man. I hate to loose big Roy for many reasons but it does call into question Roy's ability to improve greatly or if he will always be a 12 and 8 guy , who disappears at times. Would we be better with a Tyson Chandler/ Jordan Hill type undersized but good defender and rebounder? Or do we need that legit 7 footer. I knew this was bound to happen that Roy would get a max. I think we should match the offer because , providing Roy dosnt stop working, we should always be able to trade Roy if necessary

    The one thing that scares me is I see us going from a period of time where we consistently werent good enough to make the playoffs, yet too good to make the lotery. Now we are in a situatioon where we seem to be good enough to be that 2-4 seed yet not good enough to challenge the Miami's /Bulls

    I think more than anything we need that go to stud. Not sure how we get them but enough with the signing of good but not great players like G Hill for 40M
    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
    When Roy tweeted that GH had earned every penny of his contract it bothered me. The franchise makes a value judgement, however to truly earn your contract you need to perform at a certain level, otherwise you are just swindling a a team and fan base out of cap space. I have been a big fan of Roy, but if he thinks his current production is worth 15 million a year its a cause for concern. Portland is gambling on him. I hope Roy doesn't loose some of his motivation and work ethic after he gets paid. He just seems to be pretty arrogant. I still remember td to sign augraphs franchise 55

  3. #53
    Brian Mac_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    University Heights
    Age
    27
    Posts
    567
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    When Roy tweeted that GH had earned every penny of his contract it bothered me. The franchise makes a value judgement, however to truly earn your contract you need to perform at a certain level, otherwise you are just swindling a a team and fan base out of cap space. I have been a big fan of Roy, but if he thinks his current production is worth 15 million a year its a cause for concern. Portland is gambling on him. I hope Roy doesn't loose some of his motivation and work ethic after he gets paid. He just seems to be pretty arrogant. I still remember td to sign augraphs franchise 55
    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.


  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mac_Daddy For This Useful Post:


  5. #54
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cumberland
    Posts
    14,857
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    If they want to see 11,4500 average attendance again, they will let Roy go to Portland. THe community was just beginning to fall in love with this team. They will quickly fall out of love if they perceive a lack of willingness on the part of TPTB.



    (maybe this WAS the wrong time to bring DW back)
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to indygeezer For This Useful Post:


  7. #55
    BoilerUpMan Really?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    3,671
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In the way that JO was a 'center' or Garnett is now a 'center', yes. The point is somebody who is not blatantly nothing but a center (Kaman, Roy, Oden, Dwight, Chandler, Gortat).
    Yeah so a Center with versatility, same thing, and those guys typically get paid pretty well due to that factor.

    I really at this point am tired of wondering if the Pacers will match or not, there are signs that show it is still on the table, and there are signs that show they might be going other ways, we will know soon, and personally I am so ready for that date to come, I am sure most people did not want to see our offseason like this, We thought we would be adding pieces to help up try and make a further post season run, now we are just scrambling to see how we can salvage the situation that presents it's self to us.
    Why so SERIOUS

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Really? For This Useful Post:


  9. #56
    Member PaceBalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Druidia
    Posts
    5,353

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Daddy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.
    Roy does have a chip on his shoulder. I remember hearing him say multiple times last year how he was the best passing big man in the NBA in TV interviews. Unsolicited as well. He clearly isn't but he seems to think he is!

  10. #57
    Smooth tadscout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Greenfield
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,838
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    speaking of Conrad, anyone know why he isn't with the Pacers anymore?
    His twitter account still lists him working for us...
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  11. #58
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    8,830
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    If one of your PFs can guard Dwight effectively, then he is a center. Ben Wallace could guard Shaq (adequately) and JO and KG and Duncan.
    Perkins can guard Dwight. But he can't guard Blake that well.

    Good luck finding a PF who can guard Dwight and Blake.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Major Cold For This Useful Post:


  13. #59
    Member rabid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,322

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    His twitter account still lists him working for us...
    Hicks has been told by someone at PS&E that he no longer works there... it doesn't appear he has written any articles at all so far this offseason (even Larry's resignation story was written by someone else), and now he's writing for Fox Sports Midwest (which I don't remember him doing before)?

    Sounds like he's gone? Knowing PS&E it's possible they are waiting to get their successor in place before announcing the transition...


  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rabid For This Useful Post:


  15. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, but the theory (fact IMO) is that it doesn't matter where the production comes from, as long as you get what you need.

    So let's look at what Roy brings, size and all:
    1) Post scoring - medium, not great, unstoppable or consistent at this point, and posting West works much better most of the time

    2) Rebounding - for his size, not great, but since he is so tall he does get you 8-10. So if you can get 8-10 and some blocking out to help other players get their boards you will be okay

    3) Post defense - pretty good, guys can put moves on him a little but his length does give some people problems. OTOH he isn't a shut down defender at his position at all, so he's not a Dwight killer or something (like Pollard vs Shaq).

    4) Shot blocking/rim defense - outstanding, intimidates tons of lane drives and covers up mistakes.


    So if you traded me 98 Dale for 12 Roy and kept West on the team, your starting bigs are great and can deal with everything Roy/West can deal with, and maybe more. Dale was NOT a Max player.

    Thus going for a non-max, defensive/rebounding specialist who is really strong in those roles (not just "nice" as a bench guy like Lou) could keep the team moving forward just fine. The key is you need a player that is a good starting PF who would be a Max guy IF he was strong on offense, but isn't. Does that guy exist and is he available? Maybe not, so maybe the premium on Roy is scarcity even into the 6'10" PF range, along with the dreaded "potential".



    Does anyone really see Roy/West killing an Antonio/Dale front court? In fact both PFs ended up playing center elsewhere, and ditto for PF Jeff Foster. You just need to have a shot blocker and PHYSICAL rebounder that clears space to get boards or athletically challenges tons of rebounds in traffic and vertically (ie, not Tyler).
    Varejao could be perfect and he only makes 10mil.

  16. #61
    Member Pingu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,180

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Varejao could be perfect and he only makes 10mil.
    I would much rather pay Roy 14 than Varejao 10.

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pingu For This Useful Post:


  18. #62
    Boom Baby! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Daddy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.
    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to QuickRelease For This Useful Post:


  20. #63
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    14,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    So if you traded me 98 Dale for 12 Roy and kept West on the team, your starting bigs are great and can deal with everything Roy/West can deal with, and maybe more. Dale was NOT a Max player.
    By 1998, Dale had basically hit his peak. But does anyone honestly believe that a 25 y/o Roy in 2012 has already hit his peak after just 4 seasons in the league? It's possible, but not likely. This guy gets noticeably better with each passing season. Most good players don't hit their peak after just 4 years in the league. They continue to get better and peak in about their 7th or 8th season. If you match Roy, you're not merely hoping that you just get 5 years of 2012 Roy production. Instead, you are making the gamble that he will continue the year to year progression that he has shown every season and will thus be a much better player midway through that contract than he is now. If Roy can just continue to improve his offensive game then imagine the player he will be.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 07-05-2012 at 06:06 PM.

  21. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,156

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.

    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
    I think it just shows why Conrad has always been a writer, and never held a job as a coach, gm, or player personnel man.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tom White For This Useful Post:


  23. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,156

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I like the idea myself. Of course I've always been more of a fan of a defensive anchor on the front line. Similar to how Dale Davis used to play.
    Even though Davis was listed as a PF, he actually played more like a center than Smits ever did. He ALWAYS took on the other team biggest front court threat, but that was in part because Smits was awful on defense.

  24. #66
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Marion, IA
    Posts
    3,124

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO
    Who is his "family"?

  25. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,156

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If they want to see 11,4500 average attendance again, they will let Roy go to Portland. THe community was just beginning to fall in love with this team. They will quickly fall out of love if they perceive a lack of willingness on the part of TPTB.



    (maybe this WAS the wrong time to bring DW back)
    I think you are absolutely right. Roy has become the public face of this team, and the fans love him. Who else do you see out and about doing the things he does? Maybe Hill time-to-time. Certainly not Granger.

    Oh, and on Walsh? I don't think it was EVER time to bring him back.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tom White For This Useful Post:


  27. #68
    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Port Charlotte, Florida
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,256
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    By 1998, Dale had basically hit his peak. But does anyone honestly believe that a 25 y/o Roy in 2012 has already hit his peak after just 4 seasons in the league? It's possible, but not likely. This guy gets noticeably better with each passing season. Most good players don't hit their peak after just 4 years in the league. They continue to get better and peak in about their 7th or 8th season. If you match Roy, you're not merely hoping that you just get 5 years of 2012 Roy production. Instead, you are making the gamble that he will continue the year to year progression that he has shown every season and will thus be a much better player midway through that contract than he is now. If Roy can just continue to improve his offensive game then imagine the player he will be.
    True, but if he ends up going to the Blazers, he will be entering Blowoutyourkneeville, so.....

  28. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would much rather pay Roy 14 than Varejao 10.
    Varejao and Kaman? Oh yeahh

  29. #70
    Brian Mac_Daddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    University Heights
    Age
    27
    Posts
    567
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO
    Oh, I'm not mad at Roy. I'm mad that people seem to be turning on him just because he wants to get paid. I'm not going to blame a guy for trying to get a raise because he's been working hard.


  30. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mac_Daddy For This Useful Post:


  31. #71
    Boom Baby! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who is his "family"?
    I'd argue that even if his family consisted of just him, it's enough to warrant seeking his best option. What is important is that his earning potential is through the roof right now, and we can't begrudge the guy for capitalizing on it.
    Last edited by QuickRelease; 07-05-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to QuickRelease For This Useful Post:


  33. #72
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,449

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    By 1998, Dale had basically hit his peak. But does anyone honestly believe that a 25 y/o Roy in 2012 has already hit his peak after just 4 seasons in the league? It's possible, but not likely. This guy gets noticeably better with each passing season. Most good players don't hit their peak after just 4 years in the league. They continue to get better and peak in about their 7th or 8th season. If you match Roy, you're not merely hoping that you just get 5 years of 2012 Roy production. Instead, you are making the gamble that he will continue the year to year progression that he has shown every season and will thus be a much better player midway through that contract than he is now. If Roy can just continue to improve his offensive game then imagine the player he will be.
    I think it's a really fair contract for both sides. He is not worth the money right now, but he's more likely to either be worth the money or be worth more. That's why this is an easy decision IMO. Worst case, we have an all-star caliber C making about 14.5M/yr. It's hardly a bad contract compared to the last decade...

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  35. #73
    Boom Baby! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,649

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Plus you'd hate putting all that work into Roy, and then having Portland reap the benefits of it.

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to QuickRelease For This Useful Post:


  37. #74
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,585
    Mood

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Conrad is correct. Roy's scoring is not needed as long as David West is there to score down low. Danny, West, Hill, DC, Paul George are all capable scorers. Our low post offense last season was basically "your turn, my turn" with both David and Roy taking turns getting the ball in the post. If Roy leaves, and our post offense runs exclusively through David, we will be fine. To fill the void if Roy leaves, we need a center that will play hard on defense
    You don't think opposing defenses won't just lock in on West if they can ignore whoever our center if he can't score?

  38. #75
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,585
    Mood

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree! Getting Horford for Hibbert and DC would an amazing turn of play.
    Agree, but it's impossible. Roy is signing POR's offer, and the moment that happens only two things are possible: He becomes a Blazer, or he is retained by the Pacers. No trades once the contract is signed. And he won't screw over Portland by not signing after he's said he would.

Similar Threads

  1. JO Q&A with Conrad
    By vali_31 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 08-09-2007, 04:48 PM
  2. Conrad's QOD
    By DeS in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-03-2006, 05:38 PM
  3. Conrad: How well, and soon, will Peja fit in?
    By Moses in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-26-2006, 07:57 PM
  4. Conrad: How Well, And Soon, Will Peja Fit In?
    By Raskolnikov in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-26-2006, 01:51 PM
  5. Conrad Brunner
    By Southside_Pacer in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-11-2004, 01:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •