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Thread: Is Conrad right?

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    Default Is Conrad right?

    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.

    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?

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    A happy Roy is a good Roy DaveP63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    If he was a big sum*****, OK. Like a lot of the other 6'11" "power forwards" in the NBA.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    So then wouldn't one of the PF's be a center? Sounds like it to me....
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    But no names immediately come to mind
    And that's the issue right there. And if we find a PF that is as good as you describe, guess what. We're going to have to pay him as much as we'd have to pay Roy Hibbert, if not more. And then what? We reach the playoffs and teams front the new PF just like they fronted Roy and we're back where we started.

    Really, signing/matching Roy should not be an issue. It should be done, period. After years of playing without an inside presence and stretch 4's, we finally get an inside presence and we're going to let him get away? I just don't see it. I know he's not Shaq or anything, but the Pacers wouldn't be paying him like that anyway.

    Ideally, the Pacers will find a PG this season that can throw a decent post entry pass.
    Last edited by Aw Heck; 07-05-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.
    Hicks its really a tough call man. I hate to loose big Roy for many reasons but it does call into question Roy's ability to improve greatly or if he will always be a 12 and 8 guy , who disappears at times. Would we be better with a Tyson Chandler/ Jordan Hill type undersized but good defender and rebounder? Or do we need that legit 7 footer. I knew this was bound to happen that Roy would get a max. I think we should match the offer because , providing Roy dosnt stop working, we should always be able to trade Roy if necessary

    The one thing that scares me is I see us going from a period of time where we consistently werent good enough to make the playoffs, yet too good to make the lotery. Now we are in a situatioon where we seem to be good enough to be that 2-4 seed yet not good enough to challenge the Miami's /Bulls

    I think more than anything we need that go to stud. Not sure how we get them but enough with the signing of good but not great players like G Hill for 40M
    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Nobody immediately comes to mind for me either, but it is something I have been considering. One of the arguments for keeping Roy is the lack of quality centers in the league. This is a valid argument, but perhaps a dated one. Maybe the league is going away from traditional centers. Maybe the traditional center in the NBA is equal to the fullback in the NFL. And, just as the NFL offenses have evolved to the point where a fullback is no longer even on most teams, maybe the NBA is at a place in time where traditional centers have lost some importance.

    Let me stress that I have not yet come to this conclusion, but I do think it is worth considering.

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    I don't even have that theory on the table at the moment. I wish people would stop living in the last ten seconds instead of looking at the whole picture.

    Because lebron James willed his team to the title does not mean the NBA is undergoing a shift.

    Did Michael Jordan's six championships mean that slow, plodding completely unathletic 7 footers were the wave of the future?
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-05-2012 at 11:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    even if we don't resign Roy (which thinking now seems less likely each day) we better get off our butts and do something in free agency then or we might not make the playoffs next season

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Sure if your ok with a record hovering around .500%

    Roy wasn't just a tall figure out there, he was the anchor of our entire defense. David West could barely defend his own man let alone any help side defense and any defender that is going to be as good as Roy or better than Roy is going to cost almost as much as Roy.

    I've been holding out because I kept telling myself we had till the 14th to make a move here (matching in this case) and that we are just working all angles before making the comittment.

    But it now seems like they are setting us up to let us know they are going to let him walk. We still have time so until it either happens or they come out and say it's going to happen I won't panic, but I'm telling you if they let Roy walk and we can bring in no other significant players this off season I am going to be mightily p!ssed.


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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Only thing I could imagine is Josh Smith, and I think he's too inconsistent to depend on... An option for the Pacers in next years free agency. But, EVEN IF WE MATCH Roy, and dump salary (Dahntay, Hans, and DC) we would have enough for him to play WITH Roy and West in the future, so long as his first year is at or below 11m. AFTER re-siging Roy and Hill we'd be at around 42 million. Giving us about 13 million, but we're probably going to sign some veteran to fill out the big man spot until then, hopefully for one year.

    The trick here this summer, I think, is to get a scoring wing on a one year deal with the opportunity to re-sign him. Kevin Martin (The guy I want us to trade our scraps for, who is on the market), JJ Reddick, Anthony Morrow, and Jarrett Jack could be targets. Then this player would come off the books, with the vet big man we sign (Kenyon Martin, Jermaine O'Neal, or Antawn Jamison), and David West. Leaving us with Paul George, Danny Granger, George Hill, Roy Hibbert, Miles Plumlee, and Orlando Johnson under contract, eating up around 42-44 million. Leaving us leeway to get a big man like Josh Smith or Paul Milsap.

    After we go after one of those guys, we re-sign David West and our wing.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 07-05-2012 at 11:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So then wouldn't one of the PF's be a center? Sounds like it to me....
    In the way that JO was a 'center' or Garnett is now a 'center', yes. The point is somebody who is not blatantly nothing but a center (Kaman, Roy, Oden, Dwight, Chandler, Gortat).

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    IMO it can be done effectively, but it has to be the correct combo of PFs. The Pistons really did if with the Wallace boys. Rasheed was more of a stretch forward. Wallace just sagged down on the back side to block shots. I know some will say that Ben was really a Center, but I don't necessarily agree. You still need an enforcer and shot blocker around the rim. The other needs to be athletic with some range. West can shoot a little, but I don't know that he is the ideal PF to match another PF with.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    I don't know, but I don't like Conrad weighing in on this topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlerichard54 View Post
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    IMO it can be done effectively, but it has to be the correct combo of PFs. The Pistons really did if with the Wallace boys. Rasheed was more of a stretch forward. Wallace just sagged down on the back side to block shots. I know some will say that Ben was really a Center, but I don't necessarily agree. You still need an enforcer and shot blocker around the rim. The other needs to be athletic with some range. West can shoot a little, but I don't know that he is the ideal PF to match another PF with.
    Ben Wallace was a center. There's really no controversy here. I watched him play the position for a solid decade.

    The man was the same height as rip Hamilton, but that didn't make him any less of a center. And to say he just "sagged back and blocked shots" is one of the biggest understatements I've ever heard. I cannot think of a less accurate assessment of wallace's defense.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Worrisome that Bruno is floating this out there, what was the context?

    I think alot of teams in today NBA do this, essentially. There aren't enough big men to go around, especially in the East. What teams in the East have good true centers?

    You could argue it either way, East teams don't have true centers who are good, so having Roy is a big advantage OR Teams in the East don't have true centers who are good, so you could compete without one.

    Interesting discussion, either way.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Guys like Nene, Okafor, Rashard Lewis, Al Jefferson, and maybe Jason Thompson come to mind. Would I rather have Roy than any of them? Yes, of course. If we do lose Roy it's not like guys like that are cheap or even that great. Roy is what we need. Even Aldridge doesn't like to play center. That is why they are trying to get Roy.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Does Conrad work for the Pacers anymore? They introduced him as being for Fox Sports Midwest? I was just wondering since if he doesn't work for the Pacers, maybe he doesn't have as much contact with the front office as he used to. Or maybe I'm just telling myself that because I didn't like what he was selling.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    I fully expect the Pacers to re-sign Roy.

    Sure two power forwards can work great, look at Sheed and Ben Wallace.

    Unlike some of you even though Conrad is paid by the pacers to run their website, I do not believe he floats ideas the pacers want him to float. I believe is is largely an independent voice. (I mean mark Boyle is paid by the pacers too, but he isn't the pacers mouthpiece)

    So I don't put too much weight in this comment by Brunner.

    But he is correct two power forwards can win
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-05-2012 at 12:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.

    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
    I like the idea myself. Of course I've always been more of a fan of a defensive anchor on the front line. Similar to how Dale Davis used to play.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    I would S&T Hibbert along with Collison for Horford and also try to sign Kaman.
    This way you can start with West/Horford and bring Kaman as 6th man, and when West expires start Horford and Kaman.
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Playoff teams in the East last year...

    Magic - Howard (for now)
    Miami - Bosh or pick one of the a role players, if you want
    Boston - Garnett
    Chicago - Noah
    Atlanta - Horford
    NY - Tyson Chandler
    Phillie - Spencer Hawes

    Then its...

    Milwaukee - Dalembert, Rookie Henson
    Detroit - Greg Monroe, Andre Drummond Rookie who is probably years away
    Toronto - Amir Johnson, Bargnani, Euro guy who its supposed to be good

    Brooklyn - Brook Lopez
    Cleveland - Sideshow Bob
    Washington - Nene, Okafor
    Charlotte - Biyombo

    I don't know, what do you think?
    Last edited by Speed; 07-05-2012 at 11:53 AM. Reason: updated for Milwaukee and NY

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    Milwaukee has dalembert at C and John Henson at PF.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    I've always seen the power forward position as Center-Lite. I like anchoring the paint with two big guys and hate seeing PFs playing a face-up, jump-shooter role.


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    You can go plenty of different ways with it, but it has to fit an overall team scheme.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Link? Where were these comments by Brunner made?
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