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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Is Conrad right?

    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.

    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    If he was a big sum*****, OK. Like a lot of the other 6'11" "power forwards" in the NBA.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    So then wouldn't one of the PF's be a center? Sounds like it to me....
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So then wouldn't one of the PF's be a center? Sounds like it to me....
    In the way that JO was a 'center' or Garnett is now a 'center', yes. The point is somebody who is not blatantly nothing but a center (Kaman, Roy, Oden, Dwight, Chandler, Gortat).

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    In the way that JO was a 'center' or Garnett is now a 'center', yes. The point is somebody who is not blatantly nothing but a center (Kaman, Roy, Oden, Dwight, Chandler, Gortat).
    Yeah so a Center with versatility, same thing, and those guys typically get paid pretty well due to that factor.

    I really at this point am tired of wondering if the Pacers will match or not, there are signs that show it is still on the table, and there are signs that show they might be going other ways, we will know soon, and personally I am so ready for that date to come, I am sure most people did not want to see our offseason like this, We thought we would be adding pieces to help up try and make a further post season run, now we are just scrambling to see how we can salvage the situation that presents it's self to us.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So then wouldn't one of the PF's be a center? Sounds like it to me....
    You mean after Brad Miller left and we had JO and Foster?!??

    Yikes.
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    But no names immediately come to mind
    And that's the issue right there. And if we find a PF that is as good as you describe, guess what. We're going to have to pay him as much as we'd have to pay Roy Hibbert, if not more. And then what? We reach the playoffs and teams front the new PF just like they fronted Roy and we're back where we started.

    Really, signing/matching Roy should not be an issue. It should be done, period. After years of playing without an inside presence and stretch 4's, we finally get an inside presence and we're going to let him get away? I just don't see it. I know he's not Shaq or anything, but the Pacers wouldn't be paying him like that anyway.

    Ideally, the Pacers will find a PG this season that can throw a decent post entry pass.
    Last edited by Aw Heck; 07-05-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    After basically throwing the concept of paying the max for Roy under the bus, he said an alternative would be to find a better PF and play two PF's, as long as one of the two can score in the post and one can block shots and rebound.

    I hadn't really considered that, but what do you think about it?

    I think it LARGELY depends on which PF you're talking about. If he means two guys the size of West or Hansbrough, hell no. But what about a 6'10 or taller PF who isn't a stick and can hold his own around the rim, and blocks shots/rebounds? Something to think about.
    Hicks its really a tough call man. I hate to loose big Roy for many reasons but it does call into question Roy's ability to improve greatly or if he will always be a 12 and 8 guy , who disappears at times. Would we be better with a Tyson Chandler/ Jordan Hill type undersized but good defender and rebounder? Or do we need that legit 7 footer. I knew this was bound to happen that Roy would get a max. I think we should match the offer because , providing Roy dosnt stop working, we should always be able to trade Roy if necessary

    The one thing that scares me is I see us going from a period of time where we consistently werent good enough to make the playoffs, yet too good to make the lotery. Now we are in a situatioon where we seem to be good enough to be that 2-4 seed yet not good enough to challenge the Miami's /Bulls

    I think more than anything we need that go to stud. Not sure how we get them but enough with the signing of good but not great players like G Hill for 40M
    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Hicks its really a tough call man. I hate to loose big Roy for many reasons but it does call into question Roy's ability to improve greatly or if he will always be a 12 and 8 guy , who disappears at times. Would we be better with a Tyson Chandler/ Jordan Hill type undersized but good defender and rebounder? Or do we need that legit 7 footer. I knew this was bound to happen that Roy would get a max. I think we should match the offer because , providing Roy dosnt stop working, we should always be able to trade Roy if necessary

    The one thing that scares me is I see us going from a period of time where we consistently werent good enough to make the playoffs, yet too good to make the lotery. Now we are in a situatioon where we seem to be good enough to be that 2-4 seed yet not good enough to challenge the Miami's /Bulls

    I think more than anything we need that go to stud. Not sure how we get them but enough with the signing of good but not great players like G Hill for 40M
    But no names immediately come to mind, and once we come up with a list, which of them is available and worth spending on in FA or in a trade?
    When Roy tweeted that GH had earned every penny of his contract it bothered me. The franchise makes a value judgement, however to truly earn your contract you need to perform at a certain level, otherwise you are just swindling a a team and fan base out of cap space. I have been a big fan of Roy, but if he thinks his current production is worth 15 million a year its a cause for concern. Portland is gambling on him. I hope Roy doesn't loose some of his motivation and work ethic after he gets paid. He just seems to be pretty arrogant. I still remember td to sign augraphs franchise 55

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    When Roy tweeted that GH had earned every penny of his contract it bothered me. The franchise makes a value judgement, however to truly earn your contract you need to perform at a certain level, otherwise you are just swindling a a team and fan base out of cap space. I have been a big fan of Roy, but if he thinks his current production is worth 15 million a year its a cause for concern. Portland is gambling on him. I hope Roy doesn't loose some of his motivation and work ethic after he gets paid. He just seems to be pretty arrogant. I still remember td to sign augraphs franchise 55
    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.


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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Daddy View Post
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    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.
    Roy does have a chip on his shoulder. I remember hearing him say multiple times last year how he was the best passing big man in the NBA in TV interviews. Unsolicited as well. He clearly isn't but he seems to think he is!

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    Boom Baby! QuickRelease's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Daddy View Post
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    I don't think "arrogant" is a word I would ever use to define Roy. Timid is a much better descriptor.
    Its really bothers me how far the pendulum has swung on Roy being loved to being apparently a selfish person.
    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO
    Who is his "family"?

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    There is a certain amount of selfishness the players can't afford to yield. It is a business decision. And if we are honest, we're selfish too as fans. We want him to take less because it hurts the team we root for if he leaves. A legitimate concern, but certainly elevating our best interest as fans over what he considers is best for his family. Roy is in a position where someone is giving him everything the system will allow, that we are apparently hesitant to provide. There is no guarantee that Roy will ever receive another max deal. There just isn't. You can't frown on the process, because it is what it is. If this is the best financial decision for him and his family, you have to wish him the best. IMHO
    Oh, I'm not mad at Roy. I'm mad that people seem to be turning on him just because he wants to get paid. I'm not going to blame a guy for trying to get a raise because he's been working hard.


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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Nobody immediately comes to mind for me either, but it is something I have been considering. One of the arguments for keeping Roy is the lack of quality centers in the league. This is a valid argument, but perhaps a dated one. Maybe the league is going away from traditional centers. Maybe the traditional center in the NBA is equal to the fullback in the NFL. And, just as the NFL offenses have evolved to the point where a fullback is no longer even on most teams, maybe the NBA is at a place in time where traditional centers have lost some importance.

    Let me stress that I have not yet come to this conclusion, but I do think it is worth considering.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Heck, maybe Walsh is planning on bringing in Blatche to replace Hibbert. He is available and much much cheaper who can play the 4 & 5.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Heck, maybe Walsh is planning on bringing in Blatche to replace Hibbert. He is available and much much cheaper who can play the 4 & 5.
    Blatche is supposedly the king of the knuckleheads, no thanks.

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    that guy is hard to find. only name that comes to mind is bismack biyombo

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Heck, maybe Walsh is planning on bringing in Blatche to replace Hibbert. He is available and much much cheaper who can play the 4 & 5.
    I hope to God not! It seems that Blatche is much more of a Knucklehead than I thought. From getting into a fist fight with Javale McGee to being a bad teammate on the floor. It got so bad that they benched him and gave him the Jamaal Tinsley treatment late in the season.

    Plus he's a terrible defender on the defensive end and a human black hole on offense.

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    I don't even have that theory on the table at the moment. I wish people would stop living in the last ten seconds instead of looking at the whole picture.

    Because lebron James willed his team to the title does not mean the NBA is undergoing a shift.

    Did Michael Jordan's six championships mean that slow, plodding completely unathletic 7 footers were the wave of the future?
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-05-2012 at 11:04 AM.

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  31. #21

    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    even if we don't resign Roy (which thinking now seems less likely each day) we better get off our butts and do something in free agency then or we might not make the playoffs next season

  32. #22
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Sure if your ok with a record hovering around .500%

    Roy wasn't just a tall figure out there, he was the anchor of our entire defense. David West could barely defend his own man let alone any help side defense and any defender that is going to be as good as Roy or better than Roy is going to cost almost as much as Roy.

    I've been holding out because I kept telling myself we had till the 14th to make a move here (matching in this case) and that we are just working all angles before making the comittment.

    But it now seems like they are setting us up to let us know they are going to let him walk. We still have time so until it either happens or they come out and say it's going to happen I won't panic, but I'm telling you if they let Roy walk and we can bring in no other significant players this off season I am going to be mightily p!ssed.


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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Yes they can afford Hibbert without question, even if Batum was to be retained.

    Centers - Okur, Thabeet, Oden are all gone.
    PF - JJ Hickson was not extended his QO, so he is gone.
    SF - Nic Batum is prolly going to the Wolves, he, like Gordon, has made it clear that he doesn't want to return to Portland and he wants to play for the Wolves.
    SG - Jamal Crawford is walking, he opted out.
    PG - Raymond Felton is gone, he may end up in NY, but he wont be back to the Blaze. Jonny Flynn was not extended his QO, so he is gone.

    Blazers have
    PG - Lillard - rookie scale
    G - Nolan Smith 1.3mil., Elliot Williams 1.4mil.
    SG - Mathews 6.5mil., Will Barton rookie scale
    SF - Luke Babbit 1.9mil.
    PF - LA - 14mil., Shawne Williams opted in for 3.1mil., It is possible Blazers might do a buy out on Williams.
    C - Kurt Thomas 1.3mil., Meyers Leonard rookie scale

    Blazers are under 30mil not including Rookie Contracts.
    .

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Sure if your ok with a record hovering around .500%

    Roy wasn't just a tall figure out there, he was the anchor of our entire defense. David West could barely defend his own man let alone any help side defense and any defender that is going to be as good as Roy or better than Roy is going to cost almost as much as Roy.

    I've been holding out because I kept telling myself we had till the 14th to make a move here (matching in this case) and that we are just working all angles before making the comittment.

    But it now seems like they are setting us up to let us know they are going to let him walk. We still have time so until it either happens or they come out and say it's going to happen I won't panic, but I'm telling you if they let Roy walk and we can bring in no other significant players this off season I am going to be mightily p!ssed.
    Yes, but the theory (fact IMO) is that it doesn't matter where the production comes from, as long as you get what you need.

    So let's look at what Roy brings, size and all:
    1) Post scoring - medium, not great, unstoppable or consistent at this point, and posting West works much better most of the time

    2) Rebounding - for his size, not great, but since he is so tall he does get you 8-10. So if you can get 8-10 and some blocking out to help other players get their boards you will be okay

    3) Post defense - pretty good, guys can put moves on him a little but his length does give some people problems. OTOH he isn't a shut down defender at his position at all, so he's not a Dwight killer or something (like Pollard vs Shaq).

    4) Shot blocking/rim defense - outstanding, intimidates tons of lane drives and covers up mistakes.


    So if you traded me 98 Dale for 12 Roy and kept West on the team, your starting bigs are great and can deal with everything Roy/West can deal with, and maybe more. Dale was NOT a Max player.

    Thus going for a non-max, defensive/rebounding specialist who is really strong in those roles (not just "nice" as a bench guy like Lou) could keep the team moving forward just fine. The key is you need a player that is a good starting PF who would be a Max guy IF he was strong on offense, but isn't. Does that guy exist and is he available? Maybe not, so maybe the premium on Roy is scarcity even into the 6'10" PF range, along with the dreaded "potential".



    Does anyone really see Roy/West killing an Antonio/Dale front court? In fact both PFs ended up playing center elsewhere, and ditto for PF Jeff Foster. You just need to have a shot blocker and PHYSICAL rebounder that clears space to get boards or athletically challenges tons of rebounds in traffic and vertically (ie, not Tyler).

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    Default Re: Is Conrad right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Yes, but the theory (fact IMO) is that it doesn't matter where the production comes from, as long as you get what you need.

    So let's look at what Roy brings, size and all:
    1) Post scoring - medium, not great, unstoppable or consistent at this point, and posting West works much better most of the time

    2) Rebounding - for his size, not great, but since he is so tall he does get you 8-10. So if you can get 8-10 and some blocking out to help other players get their boards you will be okay

    3) Post defense - pretty good, guys can put moves on him a little but his length does give some people problems. OTOH he isn't a shut down defender at his position at all, so he's not a Dwight killer or something (like Pollard vs Shaq).

    4) Shot blocking/rim defense - outstanding, intimidates tons of lane drives and covers up mistakes.


    So if you traded me 98 Dale for 12 Roy and kept West on the team, your starting bigs are great and can deal with everything Roy/West can deal with, and maybe more. Dale was NOT a Max player.

    Thus going for a non-max, defensive/rebounding specialist who is really strong in those roles (not just "nice" as a bench guy like Lou) could keep the team moving forward just fine. The key is you need a player that is a good starting PF who would be a Max guy IF he was strong on offense, but isn't. Does that guy exist and is he available? Maybe not, so maybe the premium on Roy is scarcity even into the 6'10" PF range, along with the dreaded "potential".



    Does anyone really see Roy/West killing an Antonio/Dale front court? In fact both PFs ended up playing center elsewhere, and ditto for PF Jeff Foster. You just need to have a shot blocker and PHYSICAL rebounder that clears space to get boards or athletically challenges tons of rebounds in traffic and vertically (ie, not Tyler).
    Varejao could be perfect and he only makes 10mil.

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