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Thread: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

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    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
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    Default Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Is the SuperTeam Movement to Big Markets going to ultimately cause the demise and ultimate contraction of the irrelevant bottom 4th of the league?

    I believe that there is NO DOUBT!

    I appreciate that stars will take less to collaborate in an effort to circumvent the cap in an attempt to win a championship...

    What answers do the Pacers Digest Cap experts suggest in order to keep this from occurring?

    Hard Cap in combination with increased minimums?

    We need competitive balance!!!

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    Who's taking less to play in Brooklyn?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    I thought Bill Simmons wrote another article and this would be the link.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Who's taking less to play in Brooklyn?
    Why do you feel the need to turn this into a forum arguement by trying pinpoint one example where besides Deron nobody else is signing. And I didn't say that Brooklyn necessarily was thefocal point of my post. But Atlanta has also positioned themselves to sign 2-3 stars next year to midlevel non Max deals...

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    We have had 6 different champions in the last 10 years and before that we had only 7 different champions in a run of 23 years.

    The recent increase in parity has been pretty good, I think
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    I used to think super teams would cause this, too. However, I am now of the opinion that they are improving ratings for the league, which will in-turn help all teams because of the increased revenue sharing in the new CBA. In other words, no: people love to root against Goliath.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    Is the SuperTeam Movement to Big Markets going to ultimately cause the demise and ultimate contraction of the irrelevant bottom 4th of the league?
    Way too early to come to that conclusion.

    The pain of the new luxury tax does not kick in until next year. There is no guarantee that any of those teams will win the title and several of them will always end up losers but they will all be writing a big checks each year. Also if they have an injury like Derrick Rose and a year gets wiped out they still have to write a big check even if they are losing.

    The next 5 years will test the super team model but no one knows how it will turn out.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Regardless of how they get there is insignificant to the fact that the players are still circumventing the cap to force trades that are unfair and handicap franchises for years...

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Nobody is forcing Orlando to make this deal, and they're idiots if they do.

    They can get more than this garbage from any number of teams that just want to rent dwight for a year.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
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    I used to think super teams would cause this, too. However, I am now of the opinion that they are improving ratings for the league, which will in-turn help all teams because of the increased revenue sharing in the new CBA. In other words, no: people love to root against Goliath.
    I don't disagree that increased revenue sharing, but does it offset the loss that the little guys will be taking by not having their own stars for their fans to show up and watch? I don't know, to me, I don't appreciate watching my team lose half the time and fight for the 8th seed so long as we're not losing money...

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    If a lack of competitive balance hasn't forced MLB teams to contract, it sure as hell isn't going to happen in the NBA.
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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Nobody is forcing Orlando to make this deal, and they're idiots if they do.

    They can get more than this garbage from any number of teams that just want to rent dwight for a year.
    I hope they make him suffer..

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    I don't disagree that increased revenue sharing, but does it offset the loss that the little guys will be taking by not having their own stars for their fans to show up and watch? I don't know, to me, I don't appreciate watching my team lose half the time and fight for the 8th seed so long as we're not losing money...
    If teams did a better job building around their stars, theyd be less likely to leave.

    I'd add that the Nets have not SIGNED any other teams' free agents. The traded lottery picks for both Deron and Wallace, and Joe Johnson was gift-wrapped to them because Atlanta didn't want to pay his salary anymore.

    And again, the NBA isn't to blame for Dwight Howard getting traded to New Jersey. That's just bad management.
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-03-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    Is the SuperTeam Movement to Big Markets going to ultimately cause the demise and ultimate contraction of the irrelevant bottom 4th of the league?

    I believe that there is NO DOUBT!

    I appreciate that stars will take less to collaborate in an effort to circumvent the cap in an attempt to win a championship...

    What answers do the Pacers Digest Cap experts suggest in order to keep this from occurring?

    Hard Cap in combination with increased minimums?

    We need competitive balance!!!
    1) Hard Cap

    2) No maximum contracts

    The problem with the 'Super Team' movement is that it's driven by players that are all max players. If every team can offer them the same amount of money, then they will use other criteria to determine where they're going to sign such as surrounding talent, available media/promotion, and even weather.

    If you want to avoid the Super Teams, you let the teams like the Bobcats offer a player like James $30/40M per year. Not all players will go for more money, but at least having the option of offering more money gives the smaller market teams something to offer a big FA over a bigger market team that may not have the same cap space.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    ...so what's the point of having a draft? Teams like OKC would get penalized for drafting well, while teams would clear cap room even more than they already are to pick the bones of any team with the misfortune of drafting more than one superstar.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    I dont know about team balance etc. but teams located in states with no income tax have an advantage right from the start. (Florida and Texas come to mind immediately). That's like allowing them an extra 2-3% (or more) on the salary each year.
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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    If this somehow does happen and they pay Howard and DWill the max, that's gonna be close to $70 million between 4 players on the team. Lovely.


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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    I dont know about team balance etc. but teams located in states with no income tax have an advantage right from the start. (Florida and Texas come to mind immediately). That's like allowing them an extra 2-3% (or more) on the salary each year.
    Oregon has an 11% income tax on income over 250K. So a 30 million dollar offer from Portland equates to a 26.7M offer from a Florida or Texas team, on that factor alone. Indiana's is 3.4%.

    http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes...-tax-rates.htm

    I know that some states can legally collect income tax from visiting players, which seems like a ripoff, so the numbers aren't exact.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-03-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...so what's the point of having a draft? Teams like OKC would get penalized for drafting well, while teams would clear cap room even more than they already are to pick the bones of any team with the misfortune of drafting more than one superstar.
    Firstly, you still get a good player at a bargain rate for 4-5 years. Secondly, while it allows the money to be an issue, you're not going to constantly see every player chasing it. Kevin Durant is not going to sign with a Bobcats team for $3M more. Lastly, while I almost always side with the owners on labor disputes, the phrase "misfortune of drafting more than one superstar" is nonsense. It reeks of team ownership of a player even after the initial contract is up. Having a top player for 4-5 years on a bargain rookie contract is not a 'misfortune' because the player's value has increased, it's a blessing they had the player for so long for so cheap. If they value a player enough, they can make moves to keep him, if they don't then they don't have to, but I do not believe for a second that having to choose between star players is a misfortune because the team doesn't have some intrinsic right to the player after his contract is up. If they've got a good enough product to offer, then the player will stay.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Oregon has an 11% income tax on income over 250K. So a 30 million dollar offer from Portland equates to a 26.7M offer from a Florida or Texas team, on that factor alone. Indiana's is 3.4%.

    http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes...-tax-rates.htm

    I know that some states can legally collect income tax from visiting players, which seems like a ripoff, so the numbers aren't exact.
    Does a certain 7-2 center from Georgetown know this?!?!

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Smits Happens View Post
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    Does a certain 7-2 center from Georgetown know this?!?!
    If he reads his twitter follower's feeds he does now...

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Daddy View Post
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    If this somehow does happen and they pay Howard and DWill the max, that's gonna be close to $70 million between 4 players on the team. Lovely.
    But owner is a Billionaire , putting a championship contending franchise in New York City... He will still profit boatloads!

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    assuming he wins a championship, he'll break even. This is not at all about money to him, it's about raising his profile and having a shiny new toy to brag about.

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    Is the SuperTeam Movement to Big Markets going to ultimately cause the demise and ultimate contraction of the irrelevant bottom 4th of the league?

    I believe that there is NO DOUBT!

    I appreciate that stars will take less to collaborate in an effort to circumvent the cap in an attempt to win a championship...

    What answers do the Pacers Digest Cap experts suggest in order to keep this from occurring?

    Hard Cap in combination with increased minimums?

    We need competitive balance!!!
    There will never be competitive balance in the NBA, the money streams forbid it. There won't be any contraction either. People still buy these franchises and most CLAIM to lose money but the value of the team keeps going up and up. Some of these teams and this includes the Pacers lose money because they want to lose money. If you see the books, you will see family members getting paid for supposed services but on some teams, that is just a sham. They lose money on paper but not really when you factor in the increasing value of the team......

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    Default Re: Is contraction of 20-30% of the league, the only outcome of the SuperTeam Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    assuming he wins a championship, he'll break even. This is not at all about money to him, it's about raising his profile and having a shiny new toy to brag about.
    Don't underestimate the effect Prokhorovs international reach as Presidential candidate in Russia and owner of a NYC franchise will have on his profits...

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