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Thread: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

  1. #1026
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    ?
    Oh Just in terms of Conrad leaving... didn't know if there was a story there I hadn't heard about. In certain circles that's kind of big news.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    IIRC, I read where the Pacers and Portland couldn't do a S&T.

    Maybe they would do a "gentleman's agreement" trade for the Pacers not matching Portland's offer sheet. Where the Pacers get Myers Leonard for Stanko or something like that type trade. A type trade where no salary is involved.
    That's my thought as well. It looks like the only scenario that we have would be that the Pacers would not match......but in exchange for not matching...there would be a "nudge nudge wink wink" separate trade that involved getting some assets while clearing capspace ( like taking on Inferno's contract for a future draft pick so that the saved Capspace ). From what I know...there isn't technically anything that would prevent a separate trade like that.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  3. #1028

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Here's Conrad Brunner's latest column, writing for foxsportsmidwest.com:

    "Can Pacers afford to keep Hibbert?"

    http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/07/0...blockID=756614
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

  4. #1029

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    FWIW:

    Ric Bucher@RicBucher Source: teams still w/ a shot at Mayo (Mavs, Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Knicks and Suns) + Kaman (Mavs, Pacers, Spurs, Kings and Jazz)
    Well take LAC off Mayo's list. They got Billups and Crawford. NYK only has MLE don't they? And Hou and Phx just tied up money, but idk what they have left. So us or Dallas?

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    IIRC, I read where the Pacers and Portland couldn't do a S&T.

    Maybe they would do a "gentleman's agreement" trade for the Pacers not matching Portland's offer sheet. Where the Pacers get Myers Leonard for Stanko or something like that type trade. A type trade where no salary is involved.
    Why on earth would Portland give us their first round pick? Lets pretend for a minute the Pacers drafted Orlando Johnson in the first round and that OJ Mayo was an RFA (I know he's not). Would you be the least bit happy if we gave away Orlando Johnson to get Mayo when we were under no obligation to do so? No, this board would go nuts!

  6. #1031
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    If is comes down to Kaman and Mayo or Roy Hibbert, what would you pick?

    There's number of years on the contract, etc, but just straight up, who would you say makes them better, next year. Is it even close?
    No Kaman, but I'd do Javale and Lee. Lee cause he can come in behind Paul George and Mayo cost to much to come off the bench. I don't want to see Paul not starting cause of Mayo.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Don't take that to mean I'm DEMANDING or EXPECTING us to consolidate.
    I'm not saying you were, I'm not even against your point.

    What I'm saying is that if you put consolidations of talent in the SAME TERMS of the "Roy value" discussion, then OBVIOUSLY any NBA team would push their mother in front of a bus for the chance to swap (1 AS) Dwight for (2 AS) Roy and Danny. Throw in that Roy is younger, potential, etc.

    I think in those terms the Roy cost become more clear. Teams might consider Danny+Roy for Dwight, they wouldn't hang up, but it would be a long, tough choice if they were to go for it. If Roy was "obviously" a max/14m guy then it wouldn't be any kind of a choice, teams would be eager to do it.

    And if the Pacers do need to consolidate a little with the starting talent then why wouldn't they do this deal. It sounds pretty good to me with Paul, West and Hill already here.



    IMO spreading Roy out as more bench talent and less starters talent makes sense because the team is in no-mans-land now, halfway between consolidated and deep. Balanced starters but no star, and yet as the playoffs showed there really isn't much bench depth. So you are losing at the top end and the deep bench end. You have no point of advantage in terms of top end or deep.

    If Barbosa, Tyler and Lou had given teams fits in the playoffs it would be different, but that's not what happened. What we thought was a strength started looking like a weakness.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That would be both illegal and incredibly stupid on portlands part.

    People keep bringing up myers Leonard as if he's a stocking stuffer. The guy was a lottery pick a week ago. The blazers are not trading him.
    As asked before...given Hicks confirmation from Wells that Hibbert has already signed the offer.......if we do not match Hibbert......is there ANY SCENARIO that would end where Hibbert ends up on the Blazers and the Pacers get something ( anything ) of value ( whether it be big or small ) out of this dreadful situation?

    If the answer is that there is nothing at this point that the Pacers can do ( since Hibbert has already signed the offer ) and we can kiss Area 55 goodbye without getting ANYTHING back in return for him....then I would be severely disappointed that the Pacers invested all the resources and $$$$ towards a Player like Hibbert and then lose him for absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-05-2012 at 02:23 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #1034

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Based on the disaster that the playoff bench was, I'm on the Kaman+Mayo side. And I'm not even a big "go get Mayo" guy even though I loved him as a draft prospect.
    Have you looked at Kaman's injury history? In the four seasons preceding last year's strike-shortened season, he has played 56, 31, 76, 32 games. That's an average of 48.75 per year. At what salary is it a good investment to pay a player who averages not much more than half a season of play each year?

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    No Kaman, but I'd do Javale and Lee. Lee cause he can come in behind Paul George and Mayo cost to much to come off the bench. I don't want to see Paul not starting cause of Mayo.
    If he could beat him out/out preform him as the starter then why not let Mayo start? Starting positions Should go to those who earn them, not just given to who has more potential. With that said, I still think PG would be the starter, but wouldn't be surprised if Mayo ended up starting (if we're able to get him of course)

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    I could live with M&M - McGee and Mayo.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Also any depth added while keeping Roy is something I'm all for, as long as you realize that missing on Roy's value would mean that missing on Mayo/Kaman/etc would be more painful.


    I'm not against Roy being matched, I'm on the fence. My frustration is the people jumping off of bridges about it. It's not that horrible, it just kinda sucks. If I could recover from the Detlef trade at the point in his career/Pacer star status, then you guys can recover from losing Roy now. It doesn't have to mean the end of the world.

    It sucks, but for every Chuck and Detlef that went down the road a Jax or Rose showed up later. Heck, I remember the year Stipo went down. Most people thought we were screwed, even with Rik being drafted. Rik ended up working out.

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  15. #1038

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    As asked before...given Hicks confirmation from Wells that Hibbert has already signed the offer.......
    Hibbert hasn't signed the offer. He can't until the 11th. But he intends to sign it. That means he isn't shopping himself to any other teams as a free agent.

    But it doesn't mean he won't consider a sign and trade. It would be foolish of him to rule that out at this point. And he can be signed and traded as long as he hasn't signed the offer.

  16. #1039
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    Here's Conrad Brunner's latest column, writing for foxsportsmidwest.com:

    "Can Pacers afford to keep Hibbert?"

    http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/07/0...blockID=756614
    Conrad's argument in this article is that Hibbert is not an elite player, so he doesn't deserve a max contract. However, it's not the same max contract that superstars make. It's 12.5 million on the first year. He then added to the argument saying that it sets the bar for the league, saying that David West and Paul George are going to get offered max contracts. Wow. What a compelling argument.

    We can afford him because with him and Hill we add 20 million in salary, and then next summer we lose 20 million in salary from DJ, DC, Hansbrough and West. Leaving us right where we were before. We have early bird rights with David West, so we could bring him back, and I'd imagine cheaper than 10 million a year.

    Not only can we afford Hibbert, before we match him we could sign Chris Kaman for 10 million a year. If we dump Hansbrough and Dahntay Jones, we can also sign OJ Mayo. 30 million in the books after trading Dahntay and Hansbrough for space. Sign Kaman for 10 million, and OJ for 6 million. 46 million. Add Hibbert and Hill for 20 million and we are at 66 million, 4 million below the tax. 14 million comes off the books next year.

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  18. #1040

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Relating to BringBackJack's scenario -- if Kaman hits his average of about 47 games played per year, he'd likely be making well more per game played than Hibbert! 12.5 million divided by about 75 games is $166,666 per game. 10 million divided by 47 games equals $212,765 per game.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    I don't want to hear a word from the Pacers about "Roy costs too much money" after handing out $8 mil/year to George Hill.

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  21. #1042

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Hicks ‏@HicksPD
    @MikeWellsNBA @el_peckbo Because letting Roy go is a step in the wrong direction, most likely.
    Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
    @HicksPD @el_peckbo I disagree about Roy
    :/

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I could live with M&M - McGee and Mayo.
    Hey, I can relate. I thought I could live with Gordon and Villanueva, too...

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  24. #1044

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    As asked before...given Hicks confirmation from Wells that Hibbert has already signed the offer..

    ( since Hibbert has already signed the offer )

    Offer sheets can't be signed until July 11. Hibbert has accepted their offer not signed the offer sheet. Once he signs the offer sheet from Portland the Pacers have 3 days to match it which would be July 14 if he signs the offer sheet on the 11th.

    Same applies with Hill, he's just accepted the Pacers offer. Nothing gets signed until the 11th or after.

  25. #1045
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Bruno's argument is a fallacy one way and the other.

    Check West' age
    Check George; does he improve that much? check his position
    Finally, check the bums in seats, no Roy = -5,000 on avg

    There is no question; if Pritch does not match thanwe know why he was fired in his previous gig.

    Ana make no mistake, he's the gm, DW may be president, but certainly fror now, KP is makingthe decisions on players
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Offer sheets can't be signed until July 11. Hibbert has accepted their offer not signed the offer sheet. Once he signs the offer sheet from Portland the Pacers have 3 days to match it which would be July 14 if he signs the offer sheet on the 11th.

    Same applies with Hill, he's just accepted the Pacers offer. Nothing gets signed until the 11th or after.
    Okay.....wrong choice of words........Hibbert has accepted the offer. Either way, if this is the likely scenario that we are at....I'm beginning to think that the Pacers would have lost an asset like Hibbert for nothing.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-05-2012 at 03:01 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Bruno's argument is a fallacy one way and the other.

    Check West' age
    Check George; does he improve that much? check his position
    Finally, check the bums in seats, no Roy = -5,000 on avg

    There is no question; if Pritch does not match thanwe know why he was fired in his previous gig.

    Ana make no mistake, he's the gm, DW may be president, but certainly fror now, KP is makingthe decisions on players
    How do we know that the Simons haven't decreed that they don't want to pay that much for Hibbert and that KP isn't just taking his "stepping orders" from the top?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  28. #1048

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I could live with M&M - McGee and Mayo.
    Don't think McGee is an option. Denver should match any reasonable offer he gets.

  29. #1049
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    How do we know that the Simons haven't decreed that they don't want to pay that much for Hibbert?
    we don't BUT for the quotes in the press from (i believe) Wells about Simon agreeing to whatever the FO decided
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  30. #1050
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Wells said today Roy IS signing the Portland deal on the radio. I am confused on why anyone thought differently.

    And the Aldridge article also said that Herb has given the okay to go either way after they review the offer. Pretty obvious that means he's signing it.
    So they review the contract and see it contains a poison pill so they pass. I think this is what will happen. Then look for them to try and get Stanko over here.

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