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Thread: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

  1. #901
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I fail to see any reason why remaining silent helps the Pacers in this scenario. The money ain't changing. Nor the # of years. It is what it is. If they were going to match, I'm thinking they would have just come out and said so. Makes no negative difference if they say so.
    There is actually no advantage to doing your business in public and the Pacers have always been tight lipped about their dealings. We don't even know how much they offered Hibbert, how much they are paying Hill or if they have made an offer to any one else.

    When the smoke clears in 10 days my guess is that things will look good for Pacer fans.

    Besides Walsh and Pritchard probably get a laugh out of watching you squirm...

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    I think some of you have gone past the denial stage and into hysteria, if you really believe the pacers front office is populated by vindictive 14-year old girls, and this is all part the master plan to make everyone panic just for kicks...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Gonna ask because I don't know....does Portland have enough cap space to sign both Batum and Hibbert? If they don't, that would be a perfect reason to remain silent on matching Roy. Stall them out until they have to match the offer on Batum and force them to withdraw the offer on Roy.

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  7. #904

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I honestly think we don't know what we're going to do yet. We're talking with other C's, prob working the phones for trade scenarios as well. I think we are checking to see what our realistic options would be in case we do let Roy walk.

    I will say though, its slowly starting to feel like Roy really may be wearing a Blazers jersey next season.
    Don't have any idea if Roy will be a Blazer or not. But I am sure the Pacer Front Office has made the decision one way or the other. All this stuff has to be worked out ahead of time. How much Roy is worth. How much they want to pay. How much they can afford to pay. What to do if he comes back with a max offer. Those decisions get made before the moratorium. The same thing with Gordon and how they will try to get him.

    Now is all about executing the plan as events unfold. Not deciding what to do.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Don't have any idea if Roy will be a Blazer or not. But I am sure the Pacer Front Office has made the decision one way or the other. All this stuff has to be worked out ahead of time. How much Roy is worth. How much they want to pay. How much they can afford to pay. What to do if he comes back with a max offer. Those decisions get made before the moratorium. The same thing with Gordon and how they will try to get him.

    Now is all about executing the plan as events unfold. Not deciding what to do.
    But what if the plan is to sign Hibbert UNLESS the Pacers are able to work out a terrific trade and/or free agent signing(s) in the next several days? It's like me planning to buy sirloin for dinner unless I can find a great deal on filet mignon. The Pacers should know whether they are willing to match for Roy at this point, but they still may not know if they can find what they believe to be a better option for their money instead of signing Roy. So they could still be deciding what to do. Right?

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I think some of you have gone past the denial stage and into hysteria, if you really believe the pacers front office is populated by vindictive 14-year old girls, and this is all part the master plan to make everyone panic just for kicks...
    Their secret plan is to have Justin Beiber on the team.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    Their secret plan is to have Justin Beiber on the team.
    That would sell tickets. Must have scouted him at the Celebrity All-Star game. Think he wants a max deal too?

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    That would sell tickets. Must have scouted him at the Celebrity All-Star game. Think he wants a max deal too?
    Yes, and his own personal hair dresser.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    There is actually no advantage to doing your business in public and the Pacers have always been tight lipped about their dealings. We don't even know how much they offered Hibbert, how much they are paying Hill or if they have made an offer to any one else.

    When the smoke clears in 10 days my guess is that things will look good for Pacer fans.

    Besides Walsh and Pritchard probably get a laugh out of watching you squirm...
    They let Hill's new deal leak two days ago. Even the amount seems to have leaked yesterday. Yet not a peep on their intentions to match (or not) Roy's new deal.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brinocerous View Post
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    Gonna ask because I don't know....does Portland have enough cap space to sign both Batum and Hibbert? If they don't, that would be a perfect reason to remain silent on matching Roy. Stall them out until they have to match the offer on Batum and force them to withdraw the offer on Roy.
    I don't know their cap very well, but in any case it's just a matter of signing Roy before they with Batum. They can go OVER the cap to re-sign Batum, but not Roy. Apparently they have the room for Roy, so just do that first and they're all set.

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  17. #911
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't know their cap very well, but in any case it's just a matter of signing Roy before they with Batum. They can go OVER the cap to re-sign Batum, but not Roy. Apparently they have the room for Roy, so just do that first and they're all set.
    this, and they'd also have room for someone else at ~midlevel between signing Roy and Batum. They are in a very good shape. They could build a balanced, deep playoff team.

    I'm just not sure what they do when we match Roy. I doubt they'll have time to chase any other significant free agent. And once Batum is signed, most of their cap will be gone.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Something else I keep coming back to: If the Pacers just can't bare to pay Roy this much because of TEAM SALARY concerns, why on earth wouldn't you dump Danny Granger to keep Roy? I don't see any reason why they can't just keep them both, but if for some reason they feel it's too much money combined, you should dump the small forward to keep the center. It's just common sense to me.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Something else I keep coming back to: If the Pacers just can't bare to pay Roy this much because of TEAM SALARY concerns, why on earth wouldn't you dump Danny Granger to keep Roy? I don't see any reason why they can't just keep them both, but if for some reason they feel it's too much money combined, you should dump the small forward to keep the center. It's just common sense to me.
    Because Danny has been here through years of hell and didn't say a word, while Roy chases the big money even if it means leaving Indy. Someone in the front office probably commited to Danny, otherwise we would have traded him long ago.

    Team wise, it makes a lot more sense to let go of your declining 29 years old small forward than your 26 years old center. But I guess there's more than that.
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Maybe GHill's contract/signing got leaked by accident (by who? dunno) and they are keeping their cards a little closer to the chest concerning Roy. To me, it would make sense to not telegraph your next move.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    They let Hill's new deal leak two days ago. Even the amount seems to have leaked yesterday. Yet not a peep on their intentions to match (or not) Roy's new deal.
    I think that might have been because we were re-signing Hill without having him have an offer from another team.

    I saw how Hibbert changed the game when he was on the court against the Heat. If I saw it, I'm pretty sure more skilled minds than mine saw it too. It takes time to construct a team, let them build chemisty and make a run. Pulling the plug (your starting All Star center) just has the process has begun would seem foolish.

    Hibbert will be matched if he signs the offer.
    Last edited by Jose Slaughter; 07-04-2012 at 10:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Wake up, guys. It's not as if our management team just fell off the turnip truck. Do you really honestly think that they'd let our RFA, who we've invested years of effort into, just walk away without a valid reason or a strategy?

    Why is it that you all feel as if you've thought so much more critically about the circumstance then they have? You're missing tons of information, and outside of meeting up with Chris Kaman, there's nothing in the conversations on the board outside of naive speculation.

    Pritchard and Walsh aren't total idiots, you know. If Hibbert doesn't get re-signed, there's a valid reason why. 2-3 million extra per year does not sink the Pacers ship. It's certainly not going to come down to the principle of Hibbert being "overpaid".

    It gets old having to rummage through all of the posts that suggest otherwise. It's simple, common sense.
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    We don't have to pass on Hibbert to offer Nash $12 a year, we have $12 in open space. Then afterwards you can sign Hill, and match Hibbert. Then go trade DC, Hans, and a 1st plus anyone that didn't start for this team in the playoffs for Gordon.

    Saving 2 to 3 million a year isn't worth it if the player you are signing is Kaman.
    Exaxtly! We can still add another quality player before we match hibbert.
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    They let Hill's new deal leak two days ago. Even the amount seems to have leaked yesterday. Yet not a peep on their intentions to match (or not) Roy's new deal.
    There is this thing called an agent... They tend to love sharing info (gotta brag about the phat commission they just made!)
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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    We don't even know if it was the front office that leaked the George Hill signing. George Hill is from Indy, and he could've very easily told a few of his friends and associates the great news and they might've just simply passed it along until Mike Wells picked up on it.

    My guess is the Pacers are still feeling this market out and maybe looking at different scenarios and dominoes that could possibly fall depending on which direction they take on Hibbert.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    There is this thing called an agent... They tend to love sharing info (gotta brag about the phat commission they just made!)
    So then who leaked Roy's POR offer, his agent? If so, why no leak as to our intentions?

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So then who leaked Roy's POR offer, his agent? If so, why no leak as to our intentions?
    We haven't made up our minds yet? If it's 50-50 as some some have speculated, it's going to be a tough and agonizing decision to make. There's a lot of stones to turn, and it could depend on different scenarios that could play out one way or another. We just brought Kaman in for a visit, maybe McGee is next? Maybe front office is now taking the liberty to analyze tape of these two to see if they're indeed suitable replacements? This is all purely just speculation, but there could be a number of reasons.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    The troublesome thing is, with Walsh, where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

    It seems unfathomable that the Pacers would let Roy walk, but I'm certainly not feeling too comfortable about the situation right now.

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    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Something else I keep coming back to: If the Pacers just can't bare to pay Roy this much because of TEAM SALARY concerns, why on earth wouldn't you dump Danny Granger to keep Roy? I don't see any reason why they can't just keep them both, but if for some reason they feel it's too much money combined, you should dump the small forward to keep the center. It's just common sense to me.
    Okay...since we are all venting.....can someone explain to me why they'd be willing to offer Granger a large Contract that was mainly driven by the Market value for Borderline All-Stars ( compared to what Monta, Deng and Iggyy got at the same time ) but not willing to pay for Hibbert's contract that is market Value?

    I can understand if we were significantly overpaying him ( or even bidding against ourselves ), but his contract is comprable to players similar to him ( Marc Gasol is $58 mil and Nene got a $67 mil contract ).

    What's worse is that he's a reason ( in large part ) for the success of this Team and we're apparently considering not matching?

    For all this talk about not making a bid for Restricting for Free Agents cuz you always have to overpay them....when it comes to our own...I am stunned that ( as Hicks said ) that there hasn't even been a peep out of the FO as to what we will do with Hibbert's contract.
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  36. #924

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    Because Danny has been here through years of hell and didn't say a word, while Roy chases the big money even if it means leaving Indy. Someone in the front office probably commited to Danny, otherwise we would have traded him long ago.

    Team wise, it makes a lot more sense to let go of your declining 29 years old small forward than your 26 years old center. But I guess there's more than that.
    I try to go back to this line of logic. Can Danny Granger be traded for another Danny Granger type? Probably yes IMO.

    Can Roy Hibbert be traded for a similar player as Roy Hibbert given a max contract?

    My guess is that there are no teams outside of Portland that would give equal value for Roy HIbbert if he had a max contract.

    What I don't want to have happen is to be stuck with a Okafor type contract that no other GM's would give equal value back in return. I am not making a player comparison but a contract comparison and Hibbert as a Max player IMO would not net equal returns on investment.

    IF the Pacers keep doing this then they will be the Atlanta Hawks in the future.

  37. #925

    Default Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Okay...since we are all venting.....can someone explain to me why they'd be willing to offer Granger a large Contract that was mainly driven by the Market value for Borderline All-Stars ( compared to what Monta, Deng and Iggyy got at the same time ) but not willing to pay for Hibbert's contract that is market Value?
    I really hate the word Market Value because its not really his market value because it doesn't involve the entire league which composes the market.

    IF you to were to ask all 30 GMs what HIbberts value is they would probably say around 12 million per year much like Al Horford contract.

    I think everyone knows that market value doesn't mean fair value but people toss these terms around like it invovles all 30ty teams which is doesn't. His Market value involves (3 to 4 teams that can make a full Max offer).

    Just because one idiot likes to overpay for cars because he can doesn't mean the entire state should.

    Edit: The only reason why Hibbert is getting the Max is because he is a RFA. Take that R off and his value is 2-3 million dollars less per year.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 07-04-2012 at 01:20 PM.

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