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Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

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  • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    Plus I call 100% BULLS*** on the "mystery team" making an offer.
    Yeah, I'm still wondering what this 3rd Team is. Not a peep from any Team whose offering this 3rd contract.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

      Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
      Like when they traded Detlef for a non-allstar? Yep, now you are F'd.

      Det, not Reggie, was the current all-star of that team and was on his 2nd in a row 6th man win. He still has more trip dubs than any other NBA Pacer (only 2 but still).

      Detlef went 19.1, 9.5, 6.0 that season and made the all-star team (2 years after Reggie's only AS game). This was the season after he had won his 2nd 6th man in a row (so 6th man, 6th man, AS). Traded for McKey.

      He went to Seattle and made 2 more AS teams after that as well as 3rd team All-NBA (and finished #1 in the NBA in offensive rating by Basketball-Reference ranking), so they didn't dump a dude on the decline or making an all-star team because of the conference he was in.



      The team didn't even win because of the deal, they won more because they dumped Hill for Brown, signed Byron Scott, added Antonio Davis (back from Europe) and swapped Pooh for Workman (in the lineup, due to injury). Then the next year they had traded Pooh for Jax and the team was complete.


      FUN FACT - when the Pacers traded Herb Williams for Detlef (seriously, how was this legal) they got a 2nd round pick too. This pick was Antonio Davis, but he was sent to Europe for seasoning. Herb for Det and Antonio, which has to go down as an all-time great trade.




      THE LESSON - if you "trade" Roy for Kaman (or something similar) you can certainly still be good or maybe even better due to the overall changes you are making. The Pacers have given up Person while he was good, Detlef while he was great, and both Antonio and Dale while they still had future AS games in them and kept winning.

      Cripes, they gave up an all-star center in Brad Miller and won 61 games (franchise record) the next year without adding any other piece (impact player I mean).

      How can a Pacers fan honestly think that losing Roy is an unrecoverable event? The team's only done it about 6 times already.
      It's highly plausible those Pacers teams would've been better had they kept Detlef Schrempf and Brad Miller.

      Schrempf went on to play in two more All-Star teams, and an All-NBA 3rd Team, while being a key cog in a Sonics team that was every bit as good -- probably better -- than our teams.

      Give us Brad Miller in that Eastern Conference Finals versus Detroit, and we very well might have an NBA Championship that season. His offensive talent would've prevented Detroit from double-teaming J.O., making us a much harder team to defend, and stopping Jermaine from becoming so beat-up.

      As for your claim about us losing Hibbert is a recoverable event -- of course. With some shrewd moves and/or some luck, there's next to nothing that's not a recoverable situation. The question is: Why would you put yourself in a position where you need to recover from the loss of Roy Hibbert when you're in a position where you don't have to lose Roy Hibbert?

      You're seemingly suggesting that we should lose one of the top young big men in the league for the sake of losing him. You've given no real justification for letting him walk besides pointing out that it's something that could be recovered from.

      What are the better options to re-signing Roy? Maybe we can use that money to sign another 30-something coming off of knee surgery, or trade for another past-his-prime comboguard to come off the bench?

      Comment


      • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        Plus I call 100% BULLS*** on the "mystery team" making an offer.
        We know at least one team values Roy enough to pay him a max contract. I don't see why one more making the same offer is so unbelievable as to be labeled "********." That seems like either poor reasoning on your part, or an attempt at making Portland's view of Hibbert out to be an anomaly.

        Comment


        • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          I was thinking of this yesterday night....but let's assume the following:

          A ) Hibbert gets the MAX ( either from matching the Blazers offer or getting a larger offer from the Pacers ). On average, Hibbert would get between $13.5 mil ( assuming a Pacers offer of $67.5 mil contract...basically what Nene got ) to $14.5 mil ( assuming the Pacers match the Blazers offer ) per season.

          or

          B ) The Pacers go after Kaman and pays him between $10 to 11 mil per season for 3 or 4 seasons ( IMHO, knowing that the Pacers are desperate, Kaman will probably ask for and get $11 mil per season )

          The difference in Capspace per season that would be saved between going with Kaman as opposed to Hibbert would be between $2.5 mil to 4.5 mil for the next 3 to 4 seasons.

          Add in that it's possible that DC ( owed $2.32 mil in 2012-2013 ) and/or Hansbrough ( owed $3 mil in 2012-2013 ) could be sent out in any trade.....we'd be looking at having between $4.8 mil ( if DC is just sent out ) to $9.8 mil ( if DC+Hansbrough is both sent out ) Salary that can be sent out.

          What can we do with these savings in Capspace?


          Maybe I am looking at this simplistically, but we are looking at the following options:

          Option A ) Retaining just Hibbert

          or

          Option B ) Letting Hibbert go and then likely going after Kaman


          Letting Hibbert go, going after Kaman would allow the Pacers to have the Capspace to get a quality Backup Player via a Trade or Free Agency ( even a decent Starter if the $$$ and deal works out right ) for more depth for the foreseeable future.

          Personally, I'd rather keep Hibbert as I think that it is critical to retain Team Chemistry while recognizing that the only time that the Team was truly effective was when Hibbert's offense and defense were on the floor. He's a "Difference Maker", not one on the level of other MAX level Players....but IMHO a key piece to making this Team competitive.
          I think Hibbert can get more than that, all depends on the cap 14.5 if the cap is 58, and that is just from the Blazers, if we offer our max I believe it will be something closer to 15.5 or so, but option C offering Brook a 4yr 40 million contract and saving atleast 4.5 mill per year, and still getting a young guy with potential.
          Why so SERIOUS

          Comment


          • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

            Originally posted by Really? View Post
            I think Hibbert can get more than that, all depends on the cap 14.5 if the cap is 58, and that is just from the Blazers, if we offer our max I believe it will be something closer to 15.5 or so, but option C offering Brook a 4yr 40 million contract and saving atleast 4.5 mill per year, and still getting a young guy with potential.
            If Howard isnt an option for the Nets, I don't see why the Nets won't match that offer. Also...my guess is that Brooks will get something closer to $12 mil per season. Besides...Kaman at $11 mil per season makes more sense if Hibbert isn't matched

            Any chance that we can get back a future 1st round pick and having the Blazers take on Inferno as incentive for not matching?

            I'd at the very least require that the Blazers take on Inferno's contract purely for Capclearing reasons to get more capspace to make runs at more Free Agents.
            Last edited by CableKC; 07-03-2012, 03:24 PM.
            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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            • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

              Just a quick reminder since Detlef's name keeps coming up. Don't forget Detlef told Donnie Walsh two things.... he wanted to start and if that couldn't happen he wanted to return out west and specifically named Seattle as a destination. Made things a lot easier when Brown wanted the trade for McKey too.
              You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

              Comment


              • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                Originally posted by Kemo View Post
                LOL after reading that article and realizing the bad blood between Allen and Pritchard with the way things went down... it wouldn't surprise me one bit, if some of these worrisome quotes/opinions being reported by Wells (fed to him by KP), isn't to build up Allen's hope thinking he is gonna land Hibbert... then at last minute BLAM Pritchard comes in and matches at the most opportune time in which not only does Portland not get Roy, but they lose Batum because they put all their eggs in one basket... BRILLIANT if true .. and it would be the most ultimate and truly EPIC Pritch-Slap to date ...
                I don't think as high of Pritchard as most of you. I do think he is good, and I think he was brilliant with Paul Allen's money backing him, but Herb Simon is not going to be as free with his money. Plus it's Donnie Walsh who's in charge. So myself, I'll have to wait and see before deciding on Pritchard.

                Something no one is talking about is if Hibbert actually signs a Portland contract, that contract might present a problem in itself, because of the Allen/Pritchard dynamics.

                Portland doesn't want the Pacers matching so it's likely it could contain a poison pill of some kind. For instant not considering the math, or even if it's possible with the new CBA, but what if the money is back-end loaded in a way that would put the Pacers in luxury tax territory in it's last two years? Say the $58m is paid out thus, $8, $8, $21, $21.

                Herbs not going to go for that! Then the Pacers would say 'we were going to match but we can't match it the way the contract is constructed.'

                The Pacers HAVE to know any contract Hibbert signs is likely to contain a poison pill, thus if they truly want to keep Hibbert, they need to do something before he signs.

                Comment


                • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                  Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                  If Howard isnt an option for the Nets, I don't see why the Nets won't match that offer. Also...my guess is that Brooks will get something closer to $12 mil per season. Besides...Kaman at $11 mil per season makes more sense if Hibbert isn't matched
                  I don't think Kaman at 11 makes more sense, young guy that has put up numbers that have been very good, had a bad injury last year and is trying to come back from it, but still with a lot of potential, over a Kaman, who most people know many of his issues, and strengths.

                  And I think Howard is still a possibility, even without Brook, but yeah I could see them trying to match.
                  Why so SERIOUS

                  Comment


                  • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                    I don't think as high of Pritchard as most of you. I do think he is good, and I think he was brilliant with Paul Allen's money backing him, but Herb Simon is not going to be as free with his money. Plus it's Donnie Walsh who's in charge. So myself, I'll have to wait and see before deciding on Pritchard.

                    Something no one is talking about is if Hibbert actually signs a Portland contract, that contract might present a problem in itself, because of the Allen/Pritchard dynamics.

                    Portland doesn't want the Pacers matching so it's likely it could contain a poison pill of some kind. For instant not considering the math, or even if it's possible with the new CBA, but what if the money is back-end loaded in a way that would put the Pacers in luxury tax territory in it's last two years? Say the $58m is paid out thus, $8, $8, $21, $21.

                    Herbs not going to go for that! Then the Pacers would say 'we were going to match but we can't match it the way the contract is constructed.'

                    The Pacers HAVE to know any contract Hibbert signs is likely to contain a poison pill, thus if they truly want to keep Hibbert, they need to do something before he signs.
                    I thought "poison pills" could only be put into certain contracts? I didn't think every team could do this to every RFA and I don't think Roy's contract fits the qualifications.
                    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 07-03-2012, 03:37 PM.
                    ...Still "flying casual"
                    @roaminggnome74

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                    • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                      Originally posted by Really? View Post
                      I don't think Kaman at 11 makes more sense, young guy that has put up numbers that have been very good, had a bad injury last year and is trying to come back from it, but still with a lot of potential, over a Kaman, who most people know many of his issues, and strengths.

                      And I think Howard is still a possibility, even without Brook, but yeah I could see them trying to match.
                      Believe me, I don't think that $11 mil makes sense either....but look at the situation that we are in IF we decide to not match Hibbert....we DESPERATELY need a Starting Quality Center and Kaman is the best UFA Center that is available. To me, he's worth $9 to 10 mil a year....but looking at our situation, after deciding NOT TO MATCH a much better and younger Center.....do you think that he and his Agent won't try to get the most out of the Pacers?

                      If Hibbert is not matched and KP/DW were able to get Kaman for $9.5mil per year for the next 3 seasons, I would HATE to lose Hibbert...but this softens the blow ( sure, it will sting for a while but I will live with it ) AS LONG AS IT MEANS that KP/DW will ACTUALLY use the saved Capspace to improve the depth of the Team ( if they don't and sit on it, I will be P*SSED ). But given what Asik got, I wouldn't be surprised if KP/DW end up getting him for $11 mil per season for 4 years. I don't like it...cuz I'd rather go with "Option A" as I mentioned above....but it would not surprise me one bit if Kaman got a $44 mil contract for 4 years.
                      Last edited by CableKC; 07-03-2012, 03:41 PM.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                        Believe me, I don't think that $11 mil makes sense either....but look at the situation that we are in IF we decide to not match Hibbert....we DESPERATELY need a Starting Quality Center and Kaman is the best UFA Center that is available. To me, he's worth $9 to 10 mil a year....but looking at our situation, after deciding NOT TO MATCH a much better and younger Center.....do you think that he and his Agent won't try to get the most out of the Pacers?

                        If Hibbert is not matched and KP/DW were able to get Kaman for $9.5mil per year for the next 3 seasons, I would HATE to lose Hibbert...but this softens the blow ( sure, it will sting for a while but I will live with it ) AS LONG AS IT MEANS that KP/DW will ACTUALLY use the saved Capspace to improve the depth of the Team ( if they don't and sit on it, I will be P*SSED ). But given what Asik got, I wouldn't be surprised if KP/DW end up getting him for $11 mil per season for 4 years. I don't like it...cuz I'd rather go with "Option A" as I mentioned above....but it would not surprise me one bit if Kaman got a $44 mil contract for 4 years.
                        Personally if Hibbert is not matched, I say trade Danny for a future pick and a young prospect, hopefully at the 4, then take our chances in the lottery next year trying to get a Superstar, maybe we will win it and get Noel.

                        I know this is kind of a negative approach, but I don't like being the team that is making the playoffs but not contending, and I feel that is all Kaman will get us, to old, and not enough potential to help in the long run.
                        Why so SERIOUS

                        Comment


                        • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                          If we let Roy walk only to sign Kaman for 10+ million I'm punching Pritchard and Walsh the next time I see them

                          Comment


                          • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                            Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                            If we let Roy walk only to sign Kaman for 10+ million I'm punching Pritchard and Walsh the next time I see them

                            Comment


                            • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                              Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                              If we let Roy walk only to sign Kaman for 10+ million I'm punching Pritchard and Walsh the next time I see them
                              I suggested this in the Nash thread....but what if letting Hibbert walk, getting Kaman for $10 mil frees up Capspace to allow the Pacers to make an offer that matches what the Raptors made to Nash ( $12 mil per year for 3 seasons....or even a better offer )?

                              I'd let Hibbert walk if it meant getting Nash, Kaman while allowing us to get better Players to improve the roster.
                              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Portland offers Roy max (via Sam Amick)

                                Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                                I suggested this in the Nash thread....but what if letting Hibbert walk, getting Kaman for $10 mil frees up Capspace to allow the Pacers to make an offer that matches what the Raptors made to Nash ( $12 mil per year for 3 seasons....or even a better offer )?

                                I'd let Hibbert walk if it meant getting Nash, Kaman while allowing us to get better Players to improve the roster.
                                Just to add to this then the Pacers could go after Milsap next summer or trade for him using Tyler and whatever else to the Jazz. The Pacers could then extend him for David West money and have 0 drop off from the PF position and probably becomes more athletic and better defensively.

                                Comment

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