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Thread: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

  1. #1
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Simple question.

    I think to be fair only take into account the 2008 offseason forward. I do not give Bird credit for drafting Granger no more than i do shawn willilams.

    draft picks made solely by Larry Bird include:

    Rush
    Hibbert
    Hansbrough
    George
    Plumlee

    * Hill trade i guess counts in some way since it was for a first.



    This is an overall grade for Bird while in full control of basketball operations.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    He brought this team from oblivion to respectabilty and he did it without having to tear it down and start over....... A in my book...... He was the executive of the year for a good reason....

  3. #3
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    My overall grade for Larry Legend is a solid B.

    the reason is i believe he did a great job taking this roster from 3 seasons ago and leading us to the 5th best record in the league with potentially bright horizons.

    i realize many are dissapointed in the plumlee pick. overall i think Birds draft record is solid. i agree with many that we missed on lawson or holliday. not sure why Bird does not go get this team a pg. even this year Teague seemed like a good pick to me. we do not know what moves are next.

    Bird has brought in the ideal replacement i believe for this team in KP. although i still feel our FO is a cluster .. will hope for the best. either it is Simon unwilling to spend cash or Birds health is a primary reason i dont know. But overall Bird has given this team a chance to compete and if we make some solid moves this offseason could be looking at a Heat Pacers ECF.


    Thanks Legend and get well!

  4. #4

    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    I'll give him a B. He did a good job bringing this team back to respectability, but I think he could have done a little better with some draft picks. Passing up Jrue Holiday for Hansbrough comes to mind first.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Simple question.

    I think to be fair only take into account the 2008 offseason forward. I do not give Bird credit for drafting Granger no more than i do shawn willilams.

    draft picks made solely by Larry Bird include:

    Rush
    Hibbert
    Hansbrough
    George
    Plumlee

    * Hill trade i guess counts in some way since it was for a first.



    This is an overall grade for Bird while in full control of basketball operations.
    I took the entirety of his tenure here and gave him a solid "B"! But, in reality you are probably right in that he should be judged from 2008 to present. If thats the case it is hard not to award him an "A." 4 of the 5 starters were brought in by LB, along with a strong bench. So he absolutely deserves an "A" for his work past 2008.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    B becauıse of the bad draft picks.

  8. #7

    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    B. All things considered, he took it from a franchise in the worst possible place (too good to win the lottery, too bad to make the playoffs) and made them the 3rd seed in the East that gave the eventual champs a bit of a challenge. However, he did extend one of the worst head coaches to ever exist, drafted Hansbrough over the multitude of good point guards, James White, Brandon Rush, Shawne Williams. He wasn't very good at drafting. But damnit if we didn't get better, and that Murphy for Collison trade was highway robbery.

  9. #8
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    we can focus solely on draft picks.. i think overall his record is solid there. we will see how Plumlee turns out and that will sway it some no doubt.. but its also the 26th pick. interesting to see how the other players in this draft that we coulda have taken turn it out there as well.

    Bayless netted us Rush and mcbob along with jack.

    Acquiring Hibbert was a great move. i think even bird naysayers will agree with that one.

    hansbrough.. dissapoiting year for him last season, think he will figure it out.. but still holliday, lawson are very good players.

    Paul George is the only top 10 pick Bird has had and that made good. many of us would not trade Paul for Gordon.. im one of those individuals .. and i wanted to see Gordon in a pacers jersey as much as the next fan.

    Trading the 15th for Hill last offseason i def say was a solid move , just hoping we can keep Hill here.

    Plumlee, i will be pretty honest have not seen the guy play much .. not a duke fan, but i have a good feel for the game and realize this kid did not produce at duke in 4 years. on paper the kid sounds like a great pickup, atheletic, 7 ft, rebounds, plays tough but also very raw and perhaps lacking bb iq.

    again its the 26th pick and i woulda been really content with Teague from Kentucky. just gotta see how it plays out. overall though, most of Birds moves produced solid nba talented players. even hansbrough has a good chance at someday becoming a 6th man of the year candidate. i didnt say win it.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    C because of all the wasted draft picks, not only that but we paid over a 100 mil for scrubs to either play with us or stay At home, letting contracts expire was his biggest contribution, staying with the clown of JOB for so long makes me give him a C- in my book.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Voted A but actually an A- due to some draft stumbles.

    Unlike many I don't take away a lot of points for the JOB situation because the perfect time for a new coach would have been the beginning of this past season. I think if JOB is gone before the 2010-2011 season we don't get Vogel as head coach AND we don't get a particularly strong coach, either. LJB was trying to extend the current situation to finish out the year, which failed on court but ultimately did what was needed which was to have something fresh when the cap space started to be available.
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  13. #11
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    C because of all the wasted draft picks, not only that but we paid over a 100 mil for scrubs to either play with us or stay At home, letting contracts expire was his biggest contribution, staying with the clown of JOB for so long makes me give him a C- in my book.
    so you are giving excecutive of the year a C. your gonna have to do better than that if possible.

    "C because of all the wasted draft picks"

    which draft picks.. you cannot count Plumlee until you see him in a pacers uniform. give the kid 20 games to prove you wrong. other than that what picks are you referring to.. 2nd rounds???

    Secondly,

    "staying with the clown of JOB for so long makes me give him a C- in my book"

    who were we going to get to coach this team when Carlisle retired. SVG turned us down. no one wanted to coach here. that goes into the extension as well.

    How can you give Exec of the year a C. it makes very little sense to me.

  14. #12
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Voted A but actually an A- due to some draft stumbles.

    Unlike many I don't take away a lot of points for the JOB situation because the perfect time for a new coach would have been the beginning of this past season. I think if JOB is gone before the 2010-2011 season we don't get Vogel as head coach AND we don't get a particularly strong coach, either. LJB was trying to extend the current situation to finish out the year, which failed on court but ultimately did what was needed which was to have something fresh when the cap space started to be available.
    I thanked you for this post and want to emphasize it here. It is simply amazing how many pacers fans simply do not realize this. Thank you.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    B. Hansbrough over Holiday, Plumlee ruined the A. Its a solid, high B, but a B nonetheless.
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    A solid B. He's turned us into a solid team with some promise, but we're still lacking that top-tier talent, and are closer to the new Atlanta Hawks than a legitimate championship contender.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    so you are giving excecutive of the year a C. your gonna have to do better than that if possible.

    "C because of all the wasted draft picks"

    which draft picks.. you cannot count Plumlee until you see him in a pacers uniform. give the kid 20 games to prove you wrong. other than that what picks are you referring to.. 2nd rounds???

    Secondly,

    "staying with the clown of JOB for so long makes me give him a C- in my book"

    who were we going to get to coach this team when Carlisle retired. SVG turned us down. no one wanted to coach here. that goes into the extension as well.

    How can you give Exec of the year a C. it makes very little sense to me.
    Yes I'm giving a C to "Legend" as you call him, he is lucky this past season was successful or we could be talking about giving him a D.

  18. #16
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    I give him a B overall. Hibbert was a nice pick but he did mess up big time with Brandon Rush.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    B. Hansbrough over Holiday, Plumlee ruined the A. Its a solid, high B, but a B nonetheless.
    I think Plumlee will be a fan favorite ala McBrick. Thuderous dunks, good rebounding and lots of hustle.........

  20. #18
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    C because of all the wasted draft picks

    Which ones were wasted?

    Granger in 05 wasn't wasted. Hibbert wasn't wasted. PG wasn't wasted. Trading last year's pick for George Hill wasn't wasted. And don't you like Hans?

    Shawne Williams over Rondo was definitely a waste, but 18 other GM's wish they could have that one back as well. Aside from Rondo, virtually everyone taken after Williams was also a scrub, so it's not like we left a ton of stud players on the board. It was only Rondo. Stuff like that happens when you are a GM for a long enough time. Walsh picked George McLoud over Tim Hardaway, Shawn Kemp, Mookie Blaylock, and Dana Barros. He also picked Bender over Wally, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion (whose idol was Reggie), and Jason Terry.

    "All of the wasted draft picks" implies that there were many, but the facts don't back that claim up.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 06-30-2012 at 03:50 PM.

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  22. #19
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes I'm giving a C to "Legend" as you call him, he is lucky this past season was successful or we could be talking about giving him a D.

    which wasted draft picks are you referrring too ????? can you back up any of the statements you make with some sort of reasoning.

    Yes I call him Larry Legend for a good reason.

    3 time nba champion, coach of the year, exec of the year. whats your track record.
    Last edited by PacersPride; 06-30-2012 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    I am guessing by wasted he means there was a better player picked later he wanted Larry to pick.

    Problem with that is you could play that game with any GM in history and use that against him. It's inevitable but some people expect perfection.

  25. #21
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I am guessing by wasted he means there was a better player picked later he wanted Larry to pick.

    Problem with that is you could play that game with any GM in history and use that against him. It's inevitable but some people expect perfection.
    yes but by wasted i infer a bust. such as a darko milicic or something along those lines.

    rush, hibbert, hansbrough, george, price, hill, jarrett jack, mcboob are all nba players.. not wasted picks to acquire these players. and like you said, not every gm is going to hit every pick. most gms would be satified with 50% probably.

    all im sayin is wasted implies the player was garbage or something. how many of the lottery players even make it in this league or ever live up to the hype.

  26. #22
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    F for favorable.

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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Wasted picks by Larry Bird(and company) that I can remember:

    James White, S Williams, Jarred Bayless, Tyler Hansbrough(and I like him), Plummet, Lance, AJ Price, David Harrison.

    Good picks: Roy, Danny, Paul George, 3 good picks in a long long time, I'm also waiting to see if we keep Hill, there is possibility of another wasted pick if he leaves.

  28. #24
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Id give bird a B+/A-

    PROs: I think he has stuck to a clear plan to create one of the least confrontational locker-rooms in the NBA, and it got us to where we are now. He has been very patient in creating an identity for our team, and that identity has put us in the position to be near the top of the East for some time, if patience and discipline ensue.

    CONs: Too afraid of taking chances on players with a little edge and baggage. See 2012 Draft: PJ-III would have been the better pick, but I think Bird has some deep-seated biases against players that remind him of the 2004 roster. It leaves us with a team of passive-aggressives in the clutch, reactives vs. proactives. Judging by the latest ESPN article on PJ-III and his thoughts on falling to the Thunder, this guy sounds like he would have been perfect on our team. I dont care what his relatives tweeted before the draft regarding spare tickets (shame on you Bill Simmons). It sounds like his perceived "lack of motor" is actually just being a team player. Stephenson stands out as an exception to this: Bird seems to love the kid despite some past bad decisions.

    In summary, Bird is too afraid of swag.

    Im thinking Plumlee might work out well for us this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if the FO regrets passing PJ-III as early as next summer.

  29. #25
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    Default Re: What grade would you give Larry Bird overall as GM for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Wasted picks by Larry Bird(and company) that I can remember:

    James White, S Williams, Jarred Bayless, Tyler Hansbrough(and I like him), Plummet, Lance, AJ Price, David Harrison.
    I agree with you on this one. If you can't find value at the 52th pick, then you clearly don't know what you're doing.

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