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Thread: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

  1. #51

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    I'll go on record saying if the Pacers don't get a true QUALITY PG this off season, they are content with just being a mediocre team this coming season. This is the one position they can't afford not to improve.... plain and simple. JMOAA

  2. #52

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB24 View Post
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    Conley actually knows how to run a team's offense, which is... you know... what a point guard is supposed to do.

    Hill's defense is nice, but we all saw how stagnant the offense sometimes got with Hill running the team.
    Agree, but Hill's defense actually isn't very good. He got beat all series against both Nelson and Chalmers, and for the most part is a very lazy defender. I have no clue why people overvalue our players the way that they do, but Hill is not worth the $6 or $7 million most are suggesting.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    50 wins is not mediocrity.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    No, I make it sound like Hill is a quality backup guard who lacks above average passing or playmaking (aka point guard) skills, who we had starting as a square peg for a round hole. And what do you know, that's exactly what it is.

    George Hill is a really good backup, like $6 million a year good, but no higher. He could start at SG in a pinch, but that isn't going to happen here. If the Pacers are serious about improving he won't be starting at point guard (for long, anyway). And to the guy who brought up Stuckey, yeah, that's considered a bad contract.
    Our system isn't set up for a "traditional" point guard to thrive. We have a post oriented type of offense, therefore out PG's need to not turn the ball over and be able to hit the three ball, 2 things Hill excells at. I've made the argument plenty of times, but most championship contending teams aren't led by a "traditional" PG. 3 out of the 4 conference finals teams were led by either a scoring PG or a low turnover, 3pt shooting PG who plays defense.

    Also, G.Hill is still a young player who is going to improve. He's never had the opportunity to concentrate on solely being a PG. And he's only been in this system for a yr (not even, given the lockout)

    I'm not saying he's worth a great deal of money (anything over 6.8-7 is crazy) but I just don't think we would be a better team if Conley was our starting PG. that's why I don't think he'd be a better player

  6. #55

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Still don't get why we're focusing so much on the PG position when it's a lack of elite talent across the board that continues to doom us. Our PG play was on par with Orlando and Miami and not the reason we've lost the last two years. Other than the top 5 or so PGs in the league, just about everyone else is level with each other. Give Lowry, Dragic, Conley, etc the same system we run, and then they'd be *****ed about just like Collison. Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'll go on record saying if the Pacers don't get a true QUALITY PG this off season, they are content with just being a mediocre team this coming season. This is the one position they can't afford not to improve.... plain and simple. JMOAA
    And management keeps telling you that you are wrong and they are content with the PG situation the way it is. They are filling backup positions and may not make a move at all but sign Hill and Hibbert instead..... This team just had a great season with the PGs we had. Hill is important because he can cover two positions and that is what makes him valuable to us and it will to other teams too...

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Still don't get why we're focusing so much on the PG position when it's a lack of elite talent across the board that continues to doom us. Our PG play was on par with Orlando and Miami and not the reason we've lost the last two years. Other than the top 5 or so PGs in the league, just about everyone else is level with each other. Give Lowry, Dragic, Conley, etc the same system we run, and then they'd be *****ed about just like Collison. Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.
    Bingo!!

  9. #58

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    50 wins is not mediocrity.
    It becomes mediocrity if you continue to stay there year after year w/o getting better.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    It becomes mediocrity if you continue to stay there year after year w/o getting better.
    You can also move backward if you don't sign a player like Hill considering what you gave up to get him......

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

    As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

    As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.
    hum. that's a really steep price for Hill...

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    I wouln't go any higher than 6.5 million per year.

  16. #63

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Our offensive system is the reason our PGs don't put up the "stats" many want. But no Pritchard, Bird, and Walsh, our starting 5 is NOT good enough to win a title. While remaining complacent won't make us mediocre, it will prevent us from finally getting over the top and winning an NBA title.
    This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.
    I'll say it again. I do not believe Vogel or the Pacers FO believes this and it is not the PG position that they are working on. I think they sign someone like Mayo before they go for a PG of any kind......

  18. #65

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    This is an easy way out type of thinking, but it's not accurate. Our point guards sucked in the run and gun offense. They sucked in Vogel's offense. And oh by the way, Vogel's offense isn't some static, set in stone law as with Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Rick Carlisle, etc. He's not a seasoned head coach. He wasn't a head coach in college. He's yet to even have a definite system. The dude's had one season and some change, and with subpar point guards. "It's the system, stupid!" No, it's not. Logically speaking, it's more than likely him trying to make the best with what he's got: a slow team of spot up shooters, a weak but skilled big man and nobody with passing skills. For all we know he'd like to open things up more but he knows what would happen if he told DC and Danny and etc to go for assists: clumsy, embarrassing failure.
    Say what you want, but if you'll pay attention to the sets we run and the role of the PG in those sets, you will see that it is indeed the system that is preventing the gaudy assist stats so many of you want. What were we, 29th in the league in assists? And you want to tell me it's not because our PGs are asked to use our wing players to feed the post nearly every time down the court where we then go isolation for the remainder of the shot clock? This is not a ball dominant system we run, which is a semi-requirement for a PG to rack up huge assists. Collison's usage % was among the league's worst for PGs. Meaning our point guards are not involved nearly as much as they should be in our offensive system.

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  20. #66

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    I would give him a 3 year subscription, with a team option to purchase an additional two years at a discounted rate through whatever local school is selling magazine subscriptions that day. I know, it might be a little risque for some school systems, but times are tough for fundraising and this is a magazine with a fiercely loyal following.

    As far as a contract for Hill, my guess is that it would take at least $8 million to keep him from going back to San Antonio.


    The Spurs don't have the money to re-sign hill. That's the reason they let him go in the 1st place.

    The Spurs wouldn't take Hill back in a trade for Leonard straight up if was possible, which it isn't.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yes, I saw it. As of today he's making 6.6 mil. Next season, IIRC, he making 7.3 mil. He's making more, b/c he's a better PG than Hill. I don't want to see Walsh pay Hill Conley money when Hill isn't as good.

    He's also not as good as Lowry at 5.7 mil, so he should make less. 5-5.5 mil is the MOST the Pacers should sign Hill for, but I wouldn't hold my breath or bet the farm on that's what the Pacers will sign him for with Walsh in charge.
    Maybe his PG skills are not on the same level, but his overall game and value to his team more than qualify him to get paid a similar amount. And honestly there are various routes to win a championship, some do it with guys that play more of a traditional PG role, and others due it with guys that don't. But the thing is all the teams that win have some kind of superstar, and that is something that we don't have. I would be more worried about that than anything else.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    We should offer him nothing right away but let him know that we plan to pursue an ufa first.

    Since no other team will offer him more then MLE there is no reason for us to jump the gun and be stupid. Just wait and match the MLE offer if we have to go that high. No one will offer Hill the $7 mil that he wants, the market value of combo guards is not that high.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    We should offer him nothing right away but let him know that we plan to pursue an ufa first.

    Since no other team will offer him more then MLE there is no reason for us to jump the gun and be stupid. Just wait and match the MLE offer if we have to go that high. No one will offer Hill the $7 mil that he wants, the market value of combo guards is not that high.
    Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    4 yrs. 24mil
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  26. #71

    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...

    Just b/c Dumars wanted to give that type of a contract doesn't mean the Pacers should. Look at what Dumars gave Gordon and Charlie V. Would you? Dumars' deals aren't what I'd set the standard as.

    My feeling Lou Williams is looking for a lengthy contract. I'm not so sure he's going to get much more than what he's giving up at Philly. From what I've read, the Philly fans are elated he opted out. (I'm not interested in him either.)

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Bingo!!
    You forgot something....

    Personally, the absolute max I'd offer him is $7.5M... But, if the FO doesn't come into agreement with him you could be paying something in that neighborhood for an overall less talented player in FA.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 06-30-2012 at 05:31 PM.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  28. #73
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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Just b/c Dumars wanted to give that type of a contract doesn't mean the Pacers should. Look at what Dumars gave Gordon and Charlie V. Would you? Dumars' deals aren't what I'd set the standard as.

    My feeling Lou Williams is looking for a lengthy contract. I'm not so sure he's going to get much more than what he's giving up at Philly. From what I've read, the Philly fans are elated he opted out. (I'm not interested in him either.)
    Thing is though even if Hill got 7 mill over 3 years, that is 4.5 mill over the term that Stuckey got, that is a big difference, I would not pay Hill 8.5, but 7 is more than doable. I think since you are seeing him as only a PG and determining his salary mostly off of that you are undervaluing him. Like I said before, last year he was our Most efficient scorer and to me that says a lot, he was also a good definder, and has range on his shot.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Stuckey got 8.5 per for 3 years, Lou Williams just turned down a player option for 6.37 mill because he can get more...
    And Jamal Crawford signed for 2 years at 5 mil per. Last years free agency proved that teams are a lot less likely to overpay for mediocre talent under the new cba. I think teams will still pay for max players but Hill falls in the middle just like Crawford. He's a fringe starter not a fringe all star. There is nothing wrong with that but no one under today's cba is going to offer Hill 7 mil, it's not his market value and the Pacers shouldn't pay over market value. Offer him 5 mil after we bring in a free agent with our cap space, then if someone offers him the full MLE match it.

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    Default Re: What is the maxim price you would sign Hill for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    You forgot something....

    Personally, the absolute max I'd offer him is $7.5M... But, if the FO doesn't come into agreement with him you could be paying something in that neighborhood for an overall less talented player in FA.
    Pardon me......

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