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Thread: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    I'm pretty sure the Pacers went into this draft with only one goal: To draft the oldest players available. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This quote from Frank Vogel explains a lot

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20120629/SPORTS15/206290324/Bob-Kravitz-Pacers-Miles-Plumlee-not-last-memory-Larry-Bird-most-expected


    Our first scouting meeting, I jokingly asked, 'Are there any Jeff Fosters in the draft?' and four of our scouts said simultaneously, 'Miles Plumlee.' We've had our eye on him ever since. I know he's been a personal favorite of Larry Bird. We had a hunch about him. And his personal workout blew us away.''
    Damn, next year I hope he asks "Are there any Lebron James' in this draft" (No offense to Foster)
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    I would not say empty them, but I think it will slow down the ticket sales, not because people won't want to see Plumlee play but it kind of took the excitement out of many fans. I don't think drafting PJIII would have boosted them much but it probably would have kept them at the same rate. I actually got kind of turned off when I saw the email that was sent out about purchasing season tickets earlier.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    Damn, next year I hope he asks "Are there any Lebron James' in this draft" (No offense to Foster)

    Yes I hope we can get a Lebron type player at the 26th pick.

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Fact is you still took a guy you could have easily gotten in the 2nd round. @ that point there were way better players, IMO, still on the board. Dont like the pick and sure as hell dont agree with it. No matter what you guys say abour attendance, I know its never a good thing to have an entire (or @ least 95 percent) fan base saying "What were you thinking?!" when you make a pick. Regardless if its #26 or not.
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  8. #56
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    As for not drafting PJ3, well 25 other teams passed on him before the Pacers drafted. And then still slipped after that. For a player relying heavily on athleticism, a serious flag on the knee is pretty much a concern. So you never know how much will he still remain as good as he is being projected by his fans here. Well I'm also disappointed in not drafting him simply because I can see other teams wanting him and we could've package him for a lower pick or two. But I guess drafting Miles and then OJ is not that bad of a draft overall. Let's evaluate once we got to see them play some games in the NBA.
    Face palm. PJ3 relying on athleticism? His athleticism is icing on the cake. He actually has some skill and can do things with the ball. Plumlee is the one who is actually relying on athleticism, because he can't actually do anything with the ball.

    Look I will give the guy a shot, cause he will probably be a serviceable back up center, but its the idea that there was much better talent and Plumlee could have been had much later in the draft.
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    Seriously? The casual fan isn't paying attention to who the Pacers drafted at 26. We just went to the second round and battled the Heat, who won the championship. You are delusional if you think this has any impact on attendance.
    I'd like to weigh in here. As someone who followed the Pacers closely through the ABA years and up through the early 2000's - I have to consider myself (now) a casual fan [I haven't watched more than a half dozen games in the past five years].

    I've been paying attention to this team for the last several months and logging into PD several times a week. I had to laugh when I heard the pick last night - it was just another DOH! moment. Now I do agree that the 26th pick isn't a choice where anyone should expect lots of pop and sizzle, but I really believe it's imperative that the Pacers make some sort of move in the off season to stoke interest. My impression over the last several years is that after all the boat anchor contracts were cleared, we'd see some major upgrades (i.e. big name star player(s)). I have no idea what the FO is planning, but I do feel confident that there is only 1 way to win championships and that is with star players. You get them by FA or get lucky in the lottery (top pick, right year). It's become obvious that the super star players will only go to major market teams, so honestly I have trouble seeing that the Pacers haven't already hit their ceiling. There is a reason a lot of locals aren't enthusiastic about the NBA and it's not just the style of play and behavior of some of our previous knuckleheads (read: stacked deck).

    Like I said, I AM a casual fan and hope we get a team built like what OKC has done.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yes I hope we can get a Lebron type player at the 26th pick.
    Shoot... we'll never get a Lebron type player with the FIRST pick!

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Obviously I join the rest of you in not being thrilled with this draft pick, however it is simply because everybody who was with me kept telling me that there were several other players better which I would have no idea of because I do not watch college ball at all.

    But even so I don't think it's the end of the world kind of event. It's not a good pick and it might even be a miserable failure of a pick but at the 26th pick I can't see any player make or break you and if that is the case you are either really bad or that player must be very good.

    Either way let's just hope that this and re-signing our own free agents is not the answer for this off season, because that IMO would be a terrible mistake.
    Of course its not the end of the world, but fans like myself are extreemly tired of Bird not recognizing how to use the board to his advantage. He EASILY (unless they know something we dont) have gotten Mile with the 36th pick. Some of us fans are tired of going for singles. We would rather strike out going for a home run, then to grab yet another single

    If any player becomes a stud , that was picked up after our pick, then that explains our frustration

    Sure its only the 26th pick, but just like before Bird passes on what could easily be considered the steal in the draft. Last year Perry Jones 3 was considered a top 5 pick

    Not the end of the world but depressing
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Holiday regressed in his second season, Hans isn't very good and I would have liked a Holiday pick, but he isn't some elite game changer, and Perry Jones sure as heck isn't even close to being one.
    If you put Holiday in a pacers uniform everyone on this board would love home just as much, if not more that Paul George.

    Jrue's stats last year:
    Reg season: 13.5 pts, 4.5 ast, 3.3 rebs
    Playoffs: 15.8 pts, 5.2 ast, 4.7 rebs

    Paul George:
    Reg season: 12.1 pts, 2.4 ast, 5.6 rebs
    Playoffs: 9 pts, 2.4 ast, 6.6 reb

    Jrue is the same age (1 month younger) as PG, plays a much more difficult position to learn, and has much more competition for minutes in Phillys backcourt than PG does in the Pacers. Jrue Holiday is every bit the prospect PG is.
    Last edited by rm1369; 06-29-2012 at 10:19 AM.

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    On PJIII, there's a reason 27 teams passed on him, maybe they all were wrong. I guess we'll see.

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  17. #62

    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    On PJIII, there's a reason 27 teams passed on him, maybe they all were wrong. I guess we'll see.
    And 25 passed on plumleee - whats the point? I'll Give OKC's front office the benefit of the doubt. They appear to recognize talent.

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  19. #63

    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Face palm. PJ3 relying on athleticism? His athleticism is icing on the cake. He actually has some skill and can do things with the ball. Plumlee is the one who is actually relying on athleticism, because he can't actually do anything with the ball.

    Look I will give the guy a shot, cause he will probably be a serviceable back up center, but its the idea that there was much better talent and Plumlee could have been had much later in the draft.
    He was passed 27 times. A top-5 prospect falling to 28 should at least make you wonder what the heck is wrong. Now, falling that hard in the draft is something that will make you think that other teams know something about his health that we don't. It may have been conservative pick, but at the end of the day it is still a late first rounder in a relatively mediocre draft.

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    On PJIII, there's a reason 27 teams passed on him, maybe they all were wrong. I guess we'll see.
    On Chumlee there's a reason 25 teams passed on him, and 29 teams laughed when the Pacers picked him...
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    He was passed 27 times. A top-5 prospect falling to 28 should at least make you wonder what the heck is wrong. Now, falling that hard in the draft is something that will make you think that other teams know something about his health that we don't. It may have been conservative pick, but at the end of the day it is still a late first rounder in a relatively mediocre draft.
    People were saying pretty definitively that it had nothing to do with health. I think there were some serious red flags in the background checks.
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    We don't know that. None of these players have ever played an NBA game. It is not a fact, not at all. I'm willing to trust Bird and our scouts
    If he is what most fear he is, are any of you saying this going to care to admit it in 3 years? This is the usual discussion. By the time one side is proven wrong, it's been years so they don't care anymore.

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by woowoo View Post
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    At "YOUR" draft party.... LOL.... A draft party for NBA??? OK...
    Uh, why not? I was at a 'draft party' last night, too.

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  28. #68
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    If he is what most fear he is, are any of you saying this going to care to admit it in 3 years? This is the usual discussion. By the time one side is proven wrong, it's been years so they don't care anymore.
    I never or very, very rarely know anything about any of the college players. I haven't the slightest idea whether Plum will be any good. In fact I had never heard of him until David Stern announced the Pacers had drafted him.

    I only judge players by what they do in the NBA. if he is a bust, then I'll say he was a bust. But I must admit my expectations for a 26th pick are pretty low. If he is still on the roster in 4 years, if he is playing at all, then IMO he is far from a bust.

    Would I classify David Harrison as a bust? No, he was worth the risk for that low of a pick. Most players taken in that range don't work out. if he was taken in the top 15 or so then yes he was a bust.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-29-2012 at 11:29 AM.

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  30. #69

    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    On Chumlee there's a reason 25 teams passed on him, and 29 teams laughed when the Pacers picked him...
    Well a projected 2nd rounder being drafted as a late 1st rounder will raise eyebrows, certainly. And of course it's natural that he'll be passed that much given that he's projected that low.

  31. #70

    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    People were saying pretty definitively that it had nothing to do with health. I think there were some serious red flags in the background checks.
    Didn't know that one as I have not much idea about him. But it's probably the reason why the Pacers didn't gamble on him.

  32. #71

    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    Didn't know that one as I have not much idea about him. But it's probably the reason why the Pacers didn't gamble on him.
    I don't understand the logic some use. In one breath we are told its the 26th pick and we will be lucky if he contributes at all, so why even care. In another breath we are told the PJIII is not worth the gamble because of either injury or attitude concerns. I'm confused, does the 26th pick in the draft matter or not?

    If PJIII has attitude concerns, he will still have trade value two years from now - most teams will gamble on talent. If plumlee shows the same as he showed in college, he has no value - to the team or in trade.

  33. #72
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Well, here's how I look at it:
    The first goal with the draft should be to improve your team.
    The second goal should be to move the needle... create interest... hype... whatever... to if not sell tickets at least get some press and as many casual fans and hardcore fans as possible talking positively and hopefully (and the press). Allow fans to dream.

    If you accomplish the 1st goal then the 2nd goal will take care of itself sooner or later.

    OTOH, when you are picking 26th it's going to be hard to actually make a pick that will improve the team. It will be hard to make a pick that will even stick in the NBA. So then you have to start considering that 2nd goal. At #26 you can take a risk that you might not want to take with a better, much higher pick (where you can't afford to get it wrong).

    The Pacers certainly left some names on the draft board that would've had people talking (in a positive way) even if there were some health questions or whatever. When players drop they tend to drop for a reason. OTOH, you're picking 26th so you don't have a lot to lose by taking a gamble on one of them and their upside. And if the player you pick flames out, few would blame you for taking a chance on that player late in the draft.

    OTOH, skip any players in that group and go with a player who appears maxed out already, didn't have a particularly noteworthy college career, has several people asking 'who?', wasn't on anybody's radar for the Pacers, was likely not even going to be picked in the 1st round.... and you've squarely painted yourself into a corner hoping not only that player pans out but needing to be right about the players you passed on. You missed the chance to move the needle in any positive direction, even if it was short term. If Pawnstars Plumlee doesn't pan out then you not only missed the chance long term to make a difference, you missed it short term as well.

    IMHO At #26 the odds aren't good that Plumlee will bring you any down the road moving of that needle, and obviously didn't move it positively for the off season, so it leaves me wondering "WTF?"

    I don't see a BPA argument here.
    Last edited by Bball; 06-29-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  34. #73
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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    It isn't right to overreact, since it was just the 26 pick and they usually don't turn into much, but the problem is is that we passed up several good players and could have gotten PJ3. It's not that big of a deal, but it feels like the feeling you get when you buy something and get home only to find out that a much better version is on sale at a different store and you just spent all your money on the one that everyone says doesn't work.

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    Default Re: These are the kind of things that keep that arena empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    We don't know that. None of these players have ever played an NBA game. It is not a fact, not at all. I'm willing to trust Bird and our scouts
    When you look at the vast majority of the criteria used to evaluate draft picks then yes....it is a fact.
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