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Thread: Cap space reality

  1. #1
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Cap space reality

    I have seen some silly articles written by psuedo-NBA experts claiming we will have as much as 21 million in cap space. Getting people all excited about signing Eric Gordon, or a sign and trade where we absorb his salary. Here's the reality.

    Currently under contract:

    Granger: $13,058,606

    West: $10,000,000

    George: $2,574,120

    Hansbrough: $3,055,259

    Pendergraph: $1,500,000

    Collison: $2,319,344

    Dahntay: $2,900,000

    ====

    Total of 35.58 million

    If we pick up Lance's option, which I'm assuming we have or will, that adds another million. 36.5 million total.

    Then to be able to resign Hibbert we have to keep his 6.4 million dollar cap hold on the books. To sign George Hill we have to keep his 3.8 million dollar cap hold. Our draft pick currently has about a million dollar cap hold. Add that all up and you get .....

    46.5 million in cap holds and salaries. Based on last years salary cap that gives us 11 million in cap space. The trick is, to even use that space, any move you make has to be made BEFORE you sign Hibbert or Hill. Otherwise it's mostly, or all gone.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Yes, that's renouncing everyone except Hill and Hibbert.

    That's an assumption on my part, but you're right. If they're thinking about keeping Barbosa they'll have no cap space.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Yes, that's renouncing everyone except Hill and Hibbert.

    That's an assumption on my part, but you're right. If they're thinking about keeping Barbosa they'll have no cap space.
    ok just making sure renouncing Barbosa is a no brainier I see 0 way we don't renounce him even if we wanted him back.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Agreed. Which is why it didn't even cross my mind that someone would ask that.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I have seen some silly articles written by psuedo-NBA experts claiming we will have as much as 21 million in cap space. Getting people all excited about signing Eric Gordon, or a sign and trade where we absorb his salary. Here's the reality.

    Currently under contract:

    Granger: $13,058,606

    West: $10,000,000

    George: $2,574,120

    Hansbrough: $3,055,259

    Pendergraph: $1,500,000

    Collison: $2,319,344

    Dahntay: $2,900,000

    ====

    Total of 35.58 million

    If we pick up Lance's option, which I'm assuming we have or will, that adds another million. 36.5 million total.

    Then to be able to resign Hibbert we have to keep his 6.4 million dollar cap hold on the books. To sign George Hill we have to keep his 3.8 million dollar cap hold. Our draft pick currently has about a million dollar cap hold. Add that all up and you get .....

    46.5 million in cap holds and salaries. Based on last years salary cap that gives us 11 million in cap space. The trick is, to even use that space, any move you make has to be made BEFORE you sign Hibbert or Hill. Otherwise it's mostly, or all gone.
    Thanks. Can you also clear up what the MAX Contract Offer that Hibbert can get from both the Pacers and any other Team?

    I recall seeing that it was something that started roughly around $13-14 mil from D0NT_SH00T_ME, then others said that it was closer to something starting at $15 mil.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Is there a Free Agent to be had for that amount? I know Dwest is off next year, anyone else?

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Thanks. Can you also clear up what the MAX Contract Offer that Hibbert can get from both the Pacers and any other Team?

    I recall seeing that it was something that started roughly around $13-14 mil from D0NT_SH00T_ME, then others said that it was closer to something starting at $15 mil.
    Roy can sign for 25% of the cap. Cap's 58 million, so Roy's max is 14.5 million.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    More reasons to think a sign and trade is coming, rather than just a straight up FA signing...

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    And it could be closer to 10 mil in cap as Hill's cap hold is quite possibly over 5 mil.
    It's hard to say for sure ---the Spurs leverage a ton of incentives into rookie contracts, so GH salary size gets reported quite differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Thanks. Can you also clear up what the MAX Contract Offer that Hibbert can get from both the Pacers and any other Team?

    I recall seeing that it was something that started roughly around $13-14 mil from D0NT_SH00T_ME, then others said that it was closer to something starting at $15 mil.
    ~12.9 based on the current numbers, but IIRC the numbers for next year would put it at ~13.4 mil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Roy can sign for 25% of the cap. Cap's 58 million, so Roy's max is 14.5 million.
    It's a little less than 25%, they use different definitions of "cap" for calculating max salary size and for calculating team cap space.
    Last edited by ballism; 06-28-2012 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Thanks. Can you also clear up what the MAX Contract Offer that Hibbert can get from both the Pacers and any other Team?

    I recall seeing that it was something that started roughly around $13-14 mil from D0NT_SH00T_ME, then others said that it was closer to something starting at $15 mil.
    Didn't Mike Wells mention in the chat today that the max for Hibbert was $16.5 mil? I could be wrong.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    It's a little less than 25%, they use different definitions of "cap" for calculating max salary size and for calculating team cap space.
    can't keep anything simple. not like it's a multi-billion dollar business or something.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Comment From Alan
    How high will the Pacers go in re-signing Roy Hibbert?
    12:21

    IndyStarSports:
    They want to avoid signing Hibbert to a max deal - $16 million a year - but they may have to because there are number of teams looking for a center - Dallas and Houston - to name two of them. The Big Fella is probably worth about $13.5-14 million a year. But he has all the leverage because he made the All Star team last season and lack of true centers in the league
    12:21
    Wells says $16 million is the max for Hibbert.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    Wells says $16 million is the max for Hibbert.
    that's for veterans with at least 7 years of experience.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Okay...now all you..and even Wells is confusing me.

    What is the likely starting # going to be for Hibbert on a MAX Contact?

    Are we going with ballism's or Heisenberg's #?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    After a little research, it looks like ballism has the right formula. (Sorry, Heisenberg)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Salary_Cap
    The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is either $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2010–11: $14,511,000), whichever is greater. For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2010–11: $17,413,200), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2010–2011: $20,315,400).[4]

    Under the 2011 CBA, maximum salaries, as expressed as a percentage of the cap, remained mostly unchanged. However, a player coming off his rookie scale contract is eligible to sign for 30% of the cap if he appeared in two All-Star Games, was named to an All-NBA Team twice, or was named MVP. This was dubbed the "Derrick Rose Rule" after the 2011 MVP.[5] In addition, newly signed contracts now have a maximum duration of five years for players with Bird rights and four years for all other players (including sign-and-trade acquisitions).[6] Every team is allowed one "designated player" who receives a five-year maximum extension on his rookie scale contract.[7]

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    After a little research, it looks like ballism has the right formula. (Sorry, Heisenberg)
    fine with me, I like ballism's answer a lot more

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Hibbert, 5 years, $55M.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I have seen some silly articles written by psuedo-NBA experts claiming we will have as much as 21 million in cap space. Getting people all excited about signing Eric Gordon, or a sign and trade where we absorb his salary. Here's the reality.

    Currently under contract:

    Granger: $13,058,606

    West: $10,000,000

    George: $2,574,120

    Hansbrough: $3,055,259

    Pendergraph: $1,500,000

    Collison: $2,319,344

    Dahntay: $2,900,000

    ====

    Total of 35.58 million

    If we pick up Lance's option, which I'm assuming we have or will, that adds another million. 36.5 million total.

    Then to be able to resign Hibbert we have to keep his 6.4 million dollar cap hold on the books. To sign George Hill we have to keep his 3.8 million dollar cap hold. Our draft pick currently has about a million dollar cap hold. Add that all up and you get .....

    46.5 million in cap holds and salaries. Based on last years salary cap that gives us 11 million in cap space. The trick is, to even use that space, any move you make has to be made BEFORE you sign Hibbert or Hill. Otherwise it's mostly, or all gone.
    Mostly right. You're forgetting the cap hold for our first rounder (~$900k) and a couple of roster charges (adds up to about $1m). Or you can look at count55's detailed post here, which also considers scenarios where we can get more cap space:

    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...to-add-player/

    For Hibbert's MAX, again it's probably best just to refer to count55's numbers (above link). Hibbert's starting salary can be at most $13.7m, and if Pacers give him a full 5 year with max raises deal, it could go up to a 5 year $78.6m contract, or roughly $15.7m per year.

    Another team can give him the same MAX starting salary, but is limited to 4 years and lower raises. The most another team can offer is a 4 year $58.4m deal, or roughly $14.7m per year.

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  28. #19
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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Hibbert, 5 years, $55M.
    Supposedly bumped up a little next year, according to count's article. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but he's as reliable a source as any when it comes to cap matters.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    For Hibbert's MAX, again it's probably best just to refer to count55's numbers (above link). Hibbert's starting salary can be at most $13.7m, and if Pacers give him a full 5 year with max raises deal, it could go up to a 5 year $78.6m contract, or roughly $15.7m per year.

    Another team can give him the same MAX starting salary, but is limited to 4 years and lower raises. The most another team can offer is a 4 year $58.4m deal, or roughly $14.7m per year.
    I'd rather have the Rockets offer a MAX contract and then match that 4 year deal than a MAX contract coming from the Pacers for 5 years.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    After a little research, it looks like ballism has the right formula. (Sorry, Heisenberg)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Salary_Cap
    wikipedia seems wrong here, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Mostly right. You're forgetting the cap hold for our first rounder (~$900k) and a couple of roster charges (adds up to about $1m).
    i believe he accounted for that.
    except one roster charge, but that charge doesn't really matter (when you make an offer to Eric Gordon, that charge "turns" into cap space anyway).
    i'd just put a question mark on George Hill's cap hold size, but i doubt we can know that for sure.

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    Didn't Mike Wells mention in the chat today that the max for Hibbert was $16.5 mil? I could be wrong.
    He was wrong and did not know what he was talking about, not the first time that has happened...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Hibbert, 5 years, $55M.
    Yeah that probably won't get it done...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    wikipedia seems wrong here, though.
    Which part seems wrong?

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    Default Re: Cap space reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Mostly right. You're forgetting the cap hold for our first rounder (~$900k) and a couple of roster charges (adds up to about $1m).
    2nd to last paragraph. It's there.

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