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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #201
    pacer fan since 88-89 Mr_Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    as much as I hate Dan Dakick that f****r is always right, especially about bird leaving
    Help us Paul George......you're our only hope

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Actually, they can't due to the new rules. Teams that are $4m above the tax level can only offer the mini MLE (max of $9m over 3 years) which is significantly smaller than the full MLE (max of $20m over 4 years). That's why there's talk that the Heat may amnesty Mike Miller so that they can add a full MLE guy. But the point is that the Heat (or other taxpaying team) can't keep adding full MLE players without limit any more as they did in the past.



    Oh yeah. The smart decision would be to recycle DC and Hans into cheap rookie scale deals.
    Ya I relize it is the MMLE but the point is they are gonna keep spending. They arent gonna be under the LT because they are in win now mode. A Ray Allen player will be added every year via mmle the fact is Miami will get better every off season(when they dont even need too) If the Pacers want to win they will need to spend over the tax to get a Nash or what not that is my point. I just think Simon wont be willing to do that and that is a huge reason Bird left JMO.

  3. #203
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Smith View Post
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    as much as I hate Dan Dakick that f****r is always right, especially about bird leaving
    What did he say?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Brinocerous View Post
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    After seeing a pretty non-committal and fairly subdued Roy Hibbert on Fox 59 a few minutes ago, I can't help but wonder if the decision has been made from higher up that we will not be resigning him. I hope I'm wrong on that.
    I didn't get that vibe from watching the Roy appearance on 59 this morning. He probably knows about as much as we do right now.
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  5. #205
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So, Dan Dakich's source was correct. And Peter Vecsey was correct as far back as February? Several others had it since too.
    From all indications.....I get the sense that the decision to leave or stay wasn't decided and pretty much "fluid" up until this last meeting with Bird and the Simons. As many have suggested....Vecsey may have simply been reporting based off of assumptions without any real credible sources.

    For all we know....this much vaunted and delayed meeting between Bird and the Simons could have gone either way but something changed and prompted Bird's exit. My guess is that there was some disagreement between Bird's insistence on promoting KP over Morway and the likely problems between Bird and Morway ( isn't he someone that the Simon's trusted? ) that led to Bird's decision.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  6. #206
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Hmm, Vecsey is saying Bird will stay on as consultant, and that Pritchard is already (unofficially) in charge.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...utJzxZL2v9kdjO

    Walsh’s return to Pacers imminent; Bird to stay on as consultant
    by Peter Vecsey

    Donnie Walsh and I have been playing a little game for almost three decades. This is how it works: I call and leave a message, asking for verification on this, that or the third thing. No response means he can’t tell me the truth and doesn’t want to lie.

    Thus, I’m on my own to figure out the answer.

    Yesterday, I tried to contact Walsh via cell phone and email. Over the weekend, the Indianapolis Star reported the former Knicks’ president, whose non-consultancy with the team ends June 30 — his extraordinary West Side apartment vacated a minute ago — is returning to the Pacers’ front office, where he worked round-the-clock since before being entrapped in 2008 by James Dolan.

    The report stated Walsh would be hired in "some capacity," either as a complement to team president Larry Bird or as his replacement.

    Enthused by the Pacers’ auspicious future he carved out, Larry Legend changed his mind about retiring to Florida — and now ...

    It’s unfathomable to think owner Herb Simon has any problem with that decision. Still, his stalling and flip-flopping might be held against him.

    Seemingly, it’s done, though that could be deceiving. Kevin Pritchard, meanwhile, is making trade calls for the Pacers. Quietly, he was installed as GM, succeeding the universally mistrusted and iridescently dense David Morway.

    Pritchard had the same title with the Blazers, who let him go two seasons ago. Briefly a Celtics’ teammate of Bird, he has been on call as a much-utilized consultant for over a year.

    When in Indy, Pritchard made a point to break bread as often as possible with Walsh, whom I’ve yet to hear back from.

    Once again, Walsh has left me hanging.

    So, I’m forced to take a very educated guess.

    Sources say Bird is leaving but not entirely; he’ll be retained as a distant consultant for a year. Meaning Walsh will be back in control, though that’s not set stone.

    Simon, who lives in Southern California, is back in Indy, which is why an announcement of the change is expected momentarily.

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  8. #207
    Child Of Scorn MnvrChvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Well I like that this report indicates a good relationship between Walsh and KP. That's something at least.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I suspect Bird will stay on for the draft and be heavily involved.
    I don't mind having Bird stay on as a Consultant....but that is the extent that I would want his involvement.

    It's not Bird's ship to run anymore....it's Walsh's ship to run.

    I don't like it....but it's Walsh's vision for the future that will guide this ship.....NOT Bird's. If Walsh is the type to "Swing for the fences" ( IMHO he is and always has been ) and wants to draft Bender 2.0 ( Quincy Miller ) instead of "bunting for a single" ( drafting Green ), then I don't mind Bird offering his suggesting to Walsh that the Team should just "play it safe" and draft Green....but in the end....it's Walsh's decision to make in the end.

    Personally, the most that I would want Bird involved in the next 2 days is to offer his insights into what the Team should do in the draft and the offseason ( when it comes to Free Agency ) and then quietly depart in the night. I want a clear cut person running the show.

    Uggh......this is why I wanted Bird to either commit for the long-term ( as in 3 to 4 years ) or just leave during the 2011 offseason when we were at a clean slate with the Salary Cap and a turning point in the Franchise. I didn't want Bird to start this retooling process last season ( thus committing assets and resources to a particular vision of the future ) and then leaving the next season. I'd rather have had Bird leave last season and have gone through this "change in regime" at the beginning of the 2011-2012 season and then given the new President of Basketball Operations ( whoever that would have been ) the most resources and assets at his disposal to lay out a vision of the future.

    It's like having an architect design a house, start building it...then having a new architect come in a year later ( with a potentially different vision of how the house should be built ) when half the house is already finished.
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-26-2012 at 01:18 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  12. #209

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    If Pritchard is in charge then I feel a lot better right now.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    Well I like that this report indicates a good relationship between Walsh and KP. That's something at least.
    I really hope so......the one thing that I would have assumed is that any new President of Basketball Operations will always want to choose his 2nd in command and not be given one.

    Remember that ST:TNG episode when Picard was sent on a secret mission and Captain Jellico took over? Riker was the 2nd in command and didn't get along with the "new boss" and vice versa. I don't want KP confined to his quarters when he "butts head" with Walsh.

    Unless KP has a really tight relationship with Walsh....I can see KP butting heads with him. Honestly, despite what KP can do....if Walsh has a much better working relationship with Morway.....there's a part of me that would prefer to have Walsh/Morway over Walsh/KP.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  15. #211
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    The thing is though, we don't even know if Simon is willing to spend right now to get us to the salary cap threshold, let alone pay any sort of luxury tax.
    Well we have ZERO evidence of Herb EVER failing to hit the cap. The Pacers spent 20 straight years OVER THE CAP to the point that they were never able to sign big FAs because they DIDN'T HAVE CAP SPACE.

    (not yelling at you, emphasizing for everyone)

    This whole "we don't sign FAs" thing is 100% BULLS***. The RULES always stated that the Pacers were not allowed to sign FAs other than MLEs (they did) or Min Exceptions (they did). They spent tons keeping guys like Reggie, Dale, Rik, etc around. They went max on JO's new deal.


    This doesn't mean that Herb is not currently willing to go over the cap, I can't argue that. I'm just saying that if we look at evidence the only non-rumor evidence we have is past behavior. Simon was willing to spend for David West and was willing to let Bird "sign" Barbosa in a pick for salary trade.

    When have the Pacers EVER had a legal (by CBA) shot at a big time FA that they went cheap and passed instead? They didn't resign Peja (great choice) and they didn't resign Brad Miller.

    But in Peja's case he became a TE and Simon did allow it to be used to "sign" Harrington in a non-salary for salary trade. And in Brad's case the Pacers took back Ron Mercer and Scot Pollard's salary in the end, so they didn't cut costs they just avoided a risky investment.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-26-2012 at 01:30 PM.

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  17. #212
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm not convinced they've finalized exactly what's going to happen, hence the cat isn't really out of the bag completely just yet.
    Then why not just say that?

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  18. #213
    Grow some nuts Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Roy Hibbert
    I'm not commenting on LB until I hear it from his mouth.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Roy says on twitter he's not commenting on any of this til he hears it straight from Bird himself. What a cluster ****.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If you read Kravitz column, he makes it sound as though Pritchard is clearly in charge now and not Walsh. (although he doesn't address the Walsh issue directly.

    so maybe Pritchard is in chrage and Walsh is being brought in as a security blanket and consultant of sorts.
    Walsh isn't coming here to be a security blanket....he's only coming here is he is the guy making the final call on all decisions ( before, of course...presenting the decision to the Simons ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    He is willing to spend but in the same light. If we spend just on our own guys we are proablly up to the tax. Face it in this day in age to win a championship you have to spend over the tax.
    But as Wintermute points out, and what I'm getting at too, is that you must have a LEGAL METHOD for acquiring this salary. It's not MLB where you just cut check after check. The CBA restricts how and when you can acquire salary. So even if the Pacers wanted Nash, it's possible that they would have to TRADE AWAY SALARY to get him, meaning a guy like Nash isn't a "only if you break the tax limit" guy because as far as I can tell the Pacers can't break that limit this season anyway.

    Perhaps with the right combo of deals and then resigns of their own players? Even then there are caps on salaries based on years of service. You 100% can't give Roy Hibbert $20m per year for example. So getting to the tax is a difficult trick even if you are trying to do it on purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Actually, they can't due to the new rules. Teams that are $4m above the tax level can only offer the mini MLE (max of $9m over 3 years) which is significantly smaller than the full MLE (max of $20m over 4 years). That's why there's talk that the Heat may amnesty Mike Miller so that they can add a full MLE guy. But the point is that the Heat (or other taxpaying team) can't keep adding full MLE players without limit any more as they did in the past.



    Oh yeah. The smart decision would be to recycle DC and Hans into cheap rookie scale deals.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I have to say I'm surprised at the vehement dislike here for Donnie Walsh, same thing for Draymond Green, maybe I'm taking the Hyperbole too literal. I can get being tepid or disliking guys, but some of its 'sky is falling' stuff. I guess its just that time of year.
    Despite what Bird would suggest on who to draft....the only positive outcome that I can see in all of this is that if Walsh is the guy making the call in the draft...Green won't be the guy that the Pacers draft. Walsh doesn't play it safe....or at the very least....he's going to go with a guy with a higher ceiling than go with a guy that is "good at doing everything, but isn't really great at doing something".
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I guessing, but I think Pritchard's in charge of Basketball decisions with Donnie Walsh's input. Donnie is in charge of helping with 'cap rules' and 'cap space' which is code for money. So, Donnie is in charge of watching Simon's money. I really have no idea, but I could see this as the set up. Good news is you have a control in place if Pritchard tries to go crazy and overpay. You, also, have something in place for Donnie being too conservative with KP pushing him to get stuff done. Bad news, Im not sure how conducive this is for a long term relationship.

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  25. #219
    Grow some nuts Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    TJ Ford
    Congrats to HOF LARRY BIRD for getting Indiana Pacers basketball back to a good place. My time wasn't great BUT he kept it 100. will always remember our private conversation over my 3 yr span with HOF Larry Bird "just go out and play like you know how"
    Class act through and through.

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  27. #220
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Despite what Bird would suggest on who to draft....the only positive outcome that I can see in all of this is that if Walsh is the guy making the call in the draft...Green won't be the guy that the Pacers draft. Walsh doesn't play it safe....or at the very least....he's going to go with a guy with a higher ceiling than go with a guy that is "good at doing everything, but isn't really great at doing something".
    Agreed, I could see both not wanting to settle for a low ceiling/conservative player.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Roy says on twitter he's not commenting on any of this til he hears it straight from Bird himself. What a cluster ****.
    Now this is a conclusion we don't have to jump to. The method of all this news and rumors coming out has been a disaster full of contradictions and speculation...running right up to days before the draft.



    BTW, I kinda like Walsh and I still think he's competent. The age thing is way overplayed. You can be 55 and dimwitted, 35 and naive, or 70 and wizened and polished. Who's to say, it falls to the type and health of each individual.

    What I most want is a flipping PLAN in place and some sense that the TPTB have a clear, focused vision. This team can stay in Indy and win. I think Herb has Donnie coming in because he knows and trusts him.

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  30. #222
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Pendergraph is Pritchard's guy from Portland.

    In fact, I won't be surprised if a few more ex-Blazers show up here, like Armon Johnson. Or Brandon Roy
    I seriously think that this would have happened regardless of whether Bird or Walsh was running the show.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    TJ Ford


    Class act through and through.
    Yeah, that's really impressive. For all his on court "personality of his game", he's been pretty quality off the court. He should get lots of credit for this behavior and attitude.

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  33. #224
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Is there a time set for a press conference or anything?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I think it will be a very smooth transition. We pretty much know that Bird wasn't the person doing most of the leg work, the prep work in making trades. Bird would usually finalize the deals, but Morway did most of the prep work. So I am sure Pirtchard has been doing the prep work for weeks now when it was obvious that Morway was out. So Pritchard will continue doing what he's been doing for weeks.

    One area where I am confident that Walsh is better than Bird is in having dicsussions with other GM's around the league.

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