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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #401
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wells
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    talking to people that know Herb, Herb is open to spending money
    Straight from the podcast yesterday...

    http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2160

    and Wells, the person who broke the story, reported that Bird's departure was for health reasons and would return.

    What am I missing?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    So did all of these health issues just happen to get worse over the past month or something? The "health issues" would be a lot more believable if Bird himself wasn't so seemingly giddy about coming back a mere 4 weeks ago. By late May, you would think that Bird would have had plenty of time to assess his health situation and would know exactly what he was in store for next year, yet he talked about how he wanted to come back because of the exciting situation the team was in. Bird is a man of very few words, so him saying that was extremely significant. Bird has never been one to go BS for the hell of it. When he talks, it's short and to the point, and a month ago he could not have been more clear about wanting to come back.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Straight from the podcast yesterday...

    http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2160

    and Wells, the person who broke the story, reported that Bird's departure was for health reasons and would return.

    What am I missing?
    Wells didn't seem exactly sure one way or another, just because people say Herb is open to spending money doesn't necessarily mean he is when push comes to shove, let alone the type of money that Bird is wanting.

    Otherwise, this is just re-hashing the same points. Move on.

  5. #404
    billbradley
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    Can't someone be excited about doing something and really want to, but shouldn't and/or can't?

    Bird said he knew then he wasn't going to be back.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Can't someone be excited about doing something and really want to, but shouldn't and/or can't?

    Bird said he knew then he wasn't going to be back.

    So Bird said "I'd do it today if Herbie was here", but in reality he had no intentions of coming back? That makes no sense. He didn't say "I want to come back" or "I'd like to come back"...he said " I'd do it today. " This is Larry Bird we are talking about. He is a man of few words and never went around BS'ing for the hell of it. He was always straight and to the point.

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  9. #406
    billbradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Wells didn't seem exactly sure one way or another


    So Wells says all he has heard is that Bird is leaving for health reason and is taking a year break (Bird confirms both) and that isn't definitive?

    just because people say Herb is open to spending money doesn't necessarily mean he is when push comes to shove, let alone the type of money that Bird is wanting.
    Bird said he has always been able to spend what he wanted. What reason do you have to say he is lying?

    Otherwise, this is just re-hashing the same points. Move on.
    I'm rehashing my same points because you ask the same questions while offering nothing besides a BS report out of ORL and a journalist's question.

    There is no conspiracy, Bird has a bad back and needs to get healthy. Simple.

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  11. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    " I'd do it today. "
    Did he say that in response to being questioned if he would do another three year handshake?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Did he say that in response to being questioned if he would do another three year handshake?
    This is all I could find.

    "I'd do it today if Herbie was here," Bird said, drawing laughter. "We've got kids working out, we've got six free agents, we've got a lot going on right now. Obviously, I want to sit down with Herb as quickly as possible. I don't like this (questions) at all. I'd like a three-year deal, but we have a handshake agreement. It's hard coming in here and not having the answers."

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/79...cers-president

    That sounds like a guy who without question wanted to come back.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    "I was first contacted for real by Herb about 2 weeks ago, I guess Larry told him he was going to leave for at least a year."
    Walsh on JMV earlier today.

    http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2161

    He even says he's keeping the seat warm for Larry.
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  15. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    This is all I could find.

    "I'd do it today if Herbie was here," Bird said, drawing laughter. "We've got kids working out, we've got six free agents, we've got a lot going on right now. Obviously, I want to sit down with Herb as quickly as possible. I don't like this (questions) at all. I'd like a three-year deal, but we have a handshake agreement. It's hard coming in here and not having the answers."

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/79...cers-president

    That sounds like a guy who without question wanted to come back.
    I thought Bird was staying too, but obviously the meeting had nothing to do with the decision not to stay.

  16. #411
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    "I was first contacted for real by Herb about 2 weeks ago, I guess Larry told him he was going to leave for at least a year."
    Walsh on JMV earlier today.

    http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2161

    He even says he's keeping the seat warm for Larry.
    Pretty much what I gathered from that interview as well. Donnie is perfectly okay with keeping the seat warm and being a steward of the Blue and Gold Throne. Donnie even says he was really enjoying his retirement and never expected to be back in the saddle. Its so Obvious that Herbie called in a favor and sold him on a 1-2 year situation while Bird recovers and recharges.
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    If this whole "Walsh is keeping the seat warm for Bird while he recovers" theory is true....then all that has happened in the last 2 days is confusing....if not unnecessary.

    I don't understand why it ended up like this if Bird eventually intends to return.
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  20. #413
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    So Wells says all he has heard is that Bird is leaving for health reason and is taking a year break (Bird confirms both) and that isn't definitive?



    Bird said he has always been able to spend what he wanted. What reason do you have to say he is lying?



    I'm rehashing my same points because you ask the same questions while offering nothing besides a BS report out of ORL and a journalist's question.

    There is no conspiracy, Bird has a bad back and needs to get healthy. Simple.
    For one, I've already presented numerous facts that are both logical and rationale that point to a possible Simon unwillingness to spend money. I've debated with far superior posters though, who simply do not pick and choose points to their benefit and look at arguments as a whole. Has the team not had financial difficulty? Did Bird not say that we wouldn't be able to chase the Dwight Howards of the world? Please, enlighten me. Additionally, other basketball sites picked up the same Bird to Orlando story, so that site wasn't the only one. Whether they got it from there, I don't know. Regardless, you are horribly close minded in that there are no circumstances that allude to a possible issue with Simon if mainstream reporters are asking the very same question. I mean just using common sense, if someone asks that question, there has to be some basis, right? The same reporter didn't ask Larry Bird if he dresses up as Boomer during games because there's no basis for something like that. Doesn't mean it's true, but where there's smoke, there's sometimes fire.

    Two, what Simon has done in the past, which is what Bird said if you read it closely (again ever hear articulate politicians speak? They cover their bases). Just because he did it in the past, doesn't mean he will do it in the future. Case in point, the New York Yankees. The New York Yankees never would lose out in bidding to anyone, except now they are looking to cut payroll, had to find money for a 4 million dollar deal to Raul Ibanez, and just recently lost out on a bidding for top Cuban prospect Jorge Soler to the Cubs. With the team losing money in recent years and attendance down, is it far fetched that Simon may not want to make any more splurges in free agency besides re-signing his own? You seem to think absolutely he would based on some fluffy comment by Larry Bird.

    Third, Larry himself today said that health was am issue among other reasons, which he did not disclose all of them. Even you can't deny that one. Sorry to break it to you, it's simply not all about the back when Larry said there's more to it.

    Lastly, I have found posters who have to use emoticons to mock other posters typically don't have very good substance in their arguments, and well, I guess some things just don't change.

    Again, if you want to continue your close minded mentality, by all means go for it, but I'm not going to believe in something purely because I'm expected to. I'm going to analyze possibilities, circumstances, and leave no stone unturned. That's just how I conduct business.
    Last edited by PR07; 06-27-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  21. #414
    billbradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    For one, I've already presented numerous facts that are both logical and rationale that point to a possible Simon unwillingness to spend money. I've debated with far superior posters though, who simply do not pick and choose points to their benefit and look at arguments as a whole.
    You haven't given me much to go on. I'm not asking for reasons why Simon wouldn't spend, I'm asking for proof that he isn't.

    Such a "far superior" poster like yourself should get that.

    Has the team not had financial difficulty? Did Bird not say that we wouldn't be able to chase the Dwight Howards of the world? Please, enlighten me. Additionally, other basketball sites picked up the same Bird to Orlando story, so that site wasn't the only one. Whether they got it from there, I don't know.
    The story originated from a bad source and hasn't been confirmed. You can base your opinion on crap, but no reason to discuss that any further with me.

    Regardless, you are horribly close minded in that there are no circumstances that allude to a possible issue with Simon if mainstream reporters are asking the very same question. I mean just using common sense, if someone asks that question, there has to be some basis, right? The same reporter didn't ask Larry Bird if he dresses up as Boomer during games because there's no basis for something like that. Doesn't mean it's true, but where there's smoke, there's sometimes fire.
    Okay, so the same goes for Rome and the draft being rigged right?

    Two, what Simon has done in the past, which is what Bird said if you read it closely (again ever hear articulate politicians speak? They cover their bases). Just because he did it in the past, doesn't mean he will do it in the future. Case in point, the New York Yankees. The New York Yankees never would lose out in bidding to anyone, except now they are looking to cut payroll, had to find money for a 4 million dollar deal to Raul Ibanez, and just recently lost out on a bidding for top Cuban prospect Jorge Soler to the Cubs. With the team losing money in recent years and attendance down, is it far fetched that Simon may not want to make any more splurges in free agency besides re-signing his own? You seem to think absolutely he would based on some fluffy comment by Larry Bird.
    I have no reason to think Bird is lying when he is leaving to have surgery on his back. Bird has said he is going to leave for the past year. If it was about money, why did he stay this year?

    Third, Larry himself today said that health was am issue among other reasons, which he did not disclose all of them. Even you can't deny that one. Sorry to break it to you, it's simply not all about the back when Larry said there's more to it.
    Other reasons doesn't mean, "it's about the money."

    Lastly, I have found posters who have to use emoticons to mock other posters typically don't have very good substance in their arguments, and well, I guess some things just don't change.
    Great. Then just give me one reason anyone should think Larry left because of the money? No unfounded possibilities. Maybe Larry left because he wasn't getting paid enough. It's possible, but likely not the case. You can think these things, but they simply just aren't likely.

    Again, if you want to continue your close minded mentality, by all means go for it, but I'm not going to believe in something purely because I'm expected to. I'm going to analyze possibilities, circumstances, and leave no stone unturned. That's just how I conduct business.
    I said it's possible, anything can be possible. It's just not likely.

    Give me a single reason to believe that Bird left because Simon wouldn't spend.
    Last edited by billbradley; 06-27-2012 at 07:24 PM.

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  23. #415
    billbradley
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    And the best part, Bird and Walsh are saying Bird is leaving for a year.

    So maybe you should say "it is possible that Bird left because Simon is unwilling to pay until next year."

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  25. #416
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    For one, I've already presented numerous facts that are both logical and rationale that point to a possible Simon unwillingness to spend money. I've debated with far superior posters though, who simply do not pick and choose points to their benefit and look at arguments as a whole. Has the team not had financial difficulty? Did Bird not say that we wouldn't be able to chase the Dwight Howards of the world? Please, enlighten me. Additionally, other basketball sites picked up the same Bird to Orlando story, so that site wasn't the only one. Whether they got it from there, I don't know. Regardless, you are horribly close minded in that there are no circumstances that allude to a possible issue with Simon if mainstream reporters are asking the same question.

    Two, what Simon has done in the past, which is what Bird said if you read it closely (again ever hear articulate politicians speak? They cover their bases). Just because he did it in the past, doesn't mean he will do it in the future. Case in point, the New York Yankees. The New York Yankees never would lose out in bidding to anyone, except now they are looking to cut payroll, had to find money for a 4 million dollar deal to Raul Ibanez, and just recently lost out on a bidding for top Cuban prospect Jorge Soler to the Cubs. With the team losing money in recent years and attendance down, is it far fetched that Simon may not want to make any more splurges in free agency besides re-signing his own? You seem to think absolutely he would based on some fluffy comment by Larry Bird.

    Third, Larry himself today said that health was am issue among other reasons, which he did not disclose all of them. Even you can't deny that one. Sorry to break it to you, it's simply not all about the back when Larry said there's more to it.

    Lastly, I have found posters who have to use emoticons to mock other posters typically don't have very good substance in their arguments, and well, I guess some things just don't change.
    This argument is based largely on conjecture. the Burden of proof is squarely on the claim that runs contrary to common knowledge or past behavior. Simon has always been willing to spend money on the Pacers, we paid the Luxury tax for years, he OK'd contracts thats were above and beyond market value for our own returning free agents, he made Jermaine O'Neal one of the richest players in the NBA, Allowed Bird to hold on to Murphy and Dunleavey instead of just salary dumping them when they deserved it, the list goes on. There is no evidence, or even really anything more than base conjecture that suggests that now of all times, when the team is quickly returning to prominence, Simon suddenly has an over the top aversion to spending.

    ALL owners are being mroe conservative after the new CBA, even Cuban didn't retain Chandler due to an aversion of going over a certain limit, the harsher consequences on going way above the cap don't suggest that Simon is unwilling to pay handsomely for a winner. Also if Donny Walsh himself is to be believed he is just "keeping the seat warm" for Larry.

    All of the arguments put forth insinuating Simon of suddenly refusing to spend good money on a winner could be explained far, far more parsimoniously by taking the word of everyone remotely close to the situation and coming to the conclusion that while Larry Bird loves his job and wishes to continue in a similar role in the future it is in the best interests of his health and wellbeing to take a sabbatical while he has his surgeries and catches his breath after 9 years.

    Simon has never been a stickler or a particularly notorious penny pincher, why do you assume he has become one now, when there is a pretty obvious explanation that doesn't involve such cloak and dagger reasoning? Unless of course Bird was upset that Simon doesn't want to go way over the luxury cap, but that doesn't seem like Larry at all, and the cap is discouraging owners from going far above the line, even ones from much more profitable franchises.

    As for financial difficulties, the Pacers have not made much money for well over a decade and it hasn't been met with the kind of frugality by ownership that you are asserting is now taking place. Bird is a famously straight shooter, as blunt of a guy as you'll ever meet, he doesn't play many word games, chances are if you are trying to scry minute hints from in between the lines of Larry Bird's speech then it's probably safe to say that you are looking too hard for something that probably isn't there. In addition it is neither logical, nor rational to assume that a few "other reasons" without a doubt refers to Simon's unwillingness to spend on the team, "other reasons" could be well... any number of other reasons!

    I think it is a stretch to assume the same Herb Simon that OK'd paying a premium for a mediocre mess of a team during the O'Brien years is suddenly unwilling to do the same once again now that the teams has momentum, returning fans and a real chance to compete in the playoffs? It doesn't really stack up.
    Last edited by daschysta; 06-27-2012 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I've heard everyone reporting and involved say it's not about money, don't know how more definitive they can be.
    Sure everyone is saying it, but who knows what is really going on behind the scenes. All of these guys seem to have enough respect for each other to not start a smear campaign.
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  28. #418
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I'm not going to get into any further. Neither side is going to budge, and that's more than perfectly fine. You have it your way, I'll have it mine. The thing is, I'm not even taking the stance that Simon won't provide the necessary money that Bird was hoping for because I simply do not know. However, refusing to believe it as even a remote possibility when there are several instances that at least hint to the contrary seems kind of naive. You've said there's absolutely no basis, completely shutting your mind open to any possibility. Just because we aren't told exact certain things doesn't mean it couldn't be true. Having been around several sports organizations, believe me, the fans do not and are not in the know of a lot of things that go behind the scenes simply because they do not have to be. Some investigative people, like myself, like to read behind the lines and try to connect possible dots. That doesn't mean I'm a conspiracy theorist, only that I do consider possibilities and think outside the box. That close minded mindset simply isn't for me, if it's worked for you, kudos.
    Last edited by PR07; 06-27-2012 at 08:05 PM.

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  30. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I'm not going to get into any further. Neither side is going to budge, and that's more than perfectly fine. You have it your way, I'll have it mine. The thing is, I'm not even taking the stance that Simon won't provide the necessary money that Bird was hoping for because I simply do not know. However, refusing to believe it as even a remote possibility when there are several instances that at least hint to the contrary seems kind of naive. You've said there's absolutely no basis, completely shutting your mind open to any possibility. Just because we aren't told exact certain things doesn't mean it couldn't be true. Having been around several sports organizations, believe me, the fans do not and are not in the know of a lot of things that go behind the scenes simply because they do not have to be. Some investigative people, like myself, like to read behind the lines and try to connect possible dots. That doesn't mean I'm a conspiracy theorist, only that I do consider possibilities and think outside the box. That close minded mindset simply isn't for me, if it's worked for you, kudos.
    Dude, just read the posts, I said I thinks it's possible. Anything is possible.

    Give me one reason to believe Bird left because of money. There aren't any, that's why it's not likely and it's silly to suggest otherwise at this point.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    This one is tough to call, I think Bird had said a while back that he wanted to know if Herb would spend the money to bring in what Bird wanted. To even have Bird say that to me, indicates he was unsure. However, I dont think Simon goes after RFA's because of money, but moreso because of he thinks its the right thing to do .

    Ultimatley I think Birds leaving is a combination of many things, not one. His back probably is worse, we have always known about it, and as you get pldr, it does get worse and u loose flexibilty. Perhaps Simon has spent before, but now he is more cautious or doesnt think D Will is worth the money ( maybe he even feels like D Will ran a class act out of the job in Sloan, someone Simon respects a great deal. Maybe bird also wanted to simply take a year off, get his boy KP in the GM chair, evaluate from a far for a year and comeback recharged

    Ultimitely only a few select know the entire truth and I dont believe one of them is on PD, so it canbe fun to speculate

    Me, Im going with the combination of factors, not one specific thing
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Wells, the person who broke the story, reported that Bird's departure was for health reasons and would return.

    What am I missing?
    Correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding:

    Wells, the person who broke the story, reported that Bird's departure was for health reasons and that he may return (to the NBA--perhaps to the Pacers, but perhaps not) after he is healthy again.
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  33. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding:

    Wells, the person who broke the story, reported that Bird's departure was for health reasons and that he may return (to the NBA--perhaps to the Pacers, but perhaps not) after he is healthy again.
    Specifically, Wells said he may take a year off to join a front office, but Walsh has said that Bird said he was leaving the Pacers for at least a year.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    You know, I'm a huge fan of the Pacers. I love where the team is at right now, and I loved having Bird as management. One thing I've come to over the last few years is that I can find players I like, find players I don't like, decisions I agree with and decisions that I don't - but only from an outsider perspective, and not very concrete. I'm an optimist in my fandom, and if the basketball professionals think they made a great decision, I'll nod to their judgment.

    Walsh is in the perfect position for his skills though. He's still a heck of a GM despite the issues at the end of his term here. Honestly, I feel great about Walsh in this position. Team on the upswing, missing some pieces to truly contend and full of good character guys...if anyone's creative enough to take this team to the next level it is a Donnie Walsh and Kevin Pritchard tandom.

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  36. #424
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