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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #376
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I read it.

    Again, if spending was a possible reason, Bird wouldn't be said to possibly return after he takes care of his health.
    I don't view that as a concrete reason one way or another. He also interviewed in Orlando, leaving the possibility to return anywhere, not just here. The fact is, Larry isn't going to tell us a crystal clear picture, doing so wouldn't be politically correct or in his own best personal interests going forward.

  2. #377
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I don't view that as a concrete reason one way or another. He also interviewed in Orlando, leaving the possibility to return anywhere, not just here.
    Why would he leave the door open to return here if spending was a problem? It makes no sense.

    The fact is, Larry isn't going to tell us a crystal clear picture, doing so wouldn't be politically correct or in his own best personal interests going forward.
    Like I said in the beginning, I'm not going to think something is a problem without any proof.

    At this point, anyone can assume Simon doesn't want to spend, but that's based on nothing.

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  4. #378
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Why would he leave the door open to return here if spending was a problem? It makes no sense.



    Like I said in the beginning, I'm not going to think something is a problem without any proof.

    At this point, anyone can assume Simon doesn't want to spend, but that's based on nothing.
    You don't shoot the guy in the foot right in front of his face who's provided for your livelihood/career the past couple of years. It's called leaving gracefully. There's a whole dynamic here that people have to understand. Besides, why for sure close a door, when you don't have to?
    Last edited by PR07; 06-27-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #379
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    You don't shoot the guy in the foot right in front of his face who's provided for your livelihood/career the past couple of years. It's called leaving gracefully. There's a whole dynamic here that people have to understand. Besides, why for sure close a door, when you don't have to?
    There's no reason for Larry to say a lot of things, doesn't make all those things true.

    Again, you can say anything is possible, the fact remains what you are speculating or assuming is based on nothing.
    Last edited by billbradley; 06-27-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  6. #380
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    There's no reason for Larry to say a lot of things, doesn't make all those things true.

    Again, you can say anything is possible, the fact remains what you are speculating or assuming is based on nothing.
    I'm not sure it's based on nothing. I'm certainly not the only one who has pondered over the possibility. If there's no smoke to the fire, then why did a reporter even ask the question at the presser today? It's a legitimate question, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

  7. #381
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    So your evidence is a reporter asking a question?

    When Bird responded he has always been allowed to get the player he wanted?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    So your evidence is a reporter asking a question?

    When Bird responded he has always been allowed to get the player he wanted?
    You said such speculation was based on nothing, it certainly is based on something if many people are thinking the same thing and using logic. I don't know the true answer, you don't know the true answer, but if you prefer to live in a world of only doing purely what you're told, kudos.
    Last edited by PR07; 06-27-2012 at 02:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    all i'm going to say is this.

    i hope what's happening right now doesn't screw all the positive things about this team lately up. if it does i'm gonna be pissed beyond belief.

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  11. #384
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    You said such speculation was based on nothing, it certainly is based on something if many people are thinking the same thing and using logic. I don't know the true answer, you don't know the true answer, but if you prefer to live in a world of only doing purely what you're told, kudos.

    I live in a world where I have opinions based on things that happen. Nothing has happened for me to believe that Simon is unwilling to spend. It has been the complete opposite.

    I'm asking you why you believe payroll is a possible reason Bird left, and you tell me because a reporter asked a question.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I live in a world where I have opinions based on things that happen. Nothing has happened for me to believe that Simon is unwilling to spend. It has been the complete opposite.

    I'm asking you why you believe payroll is a possible reason Bird left, and you tell me because a reporter asked a question.
    Bird's health problems did not occur overnight. In his first presser he gave every indication that he was ready and able to get back to work as soon as Herb and he had a chance to sit down and talk about things. Now, all of a sudden, that isn't the case. I believe that is where the line of thinking is coming from.
    "No one else can see the preservation of the martyr in me" -- Corey Taylor

  14. #386
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Did you watch today? Bird said he knew then he wasn't coming back.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I live in a world where I have opinions based on things that happen. Nothing has happened for me to believe that Simon is unwilling to spend. It has been the complete opposite.

    I'm asking you why you believe payroll is a possible reason Bird left, and you tell me because a reporter asked a question.
    So, you live purely reactionary to everything, never once forecasting what may happen in the future? Interesting.

    That is also not true. I said that such speculation is not based PURELY ON NOTHING as you alluded because as part of the proof, even a mainstream reporter asked the same question. Just using sound logic, if multiple people are asking the same thing, generally there is some smoke to a fire. If I need to spell out such signals in that smokestack, I'll be more than happy to: A) Team has suffered financial woes in recent years B) Bird is on record mentioning we won't be able to go after Dwight Howard types C) Bird interviews with Orlando D) Bird abruptly leaves citing health among other reasons. It's a matter of connecting the dots. I'm not sure what it is one way or another (it could be purely all health and a change of scenery), but living under a rock and pretending to only believe in what you're told sounds awfully naive. There are plenty things as fans that we are simply not told because we don't have to be. Only looking at what is black and white, is way too simplistic of an approach for me.

  16. #388
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Pacers have never not spent on a player Bird wanted.

    Literally everyone who is reporting or involved in the situation says that payroll is not the issue.

    It's naive to believe what has been proven?

    I say it's silly to look for conspiracies when there isn't any reason to.

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  18. #389
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    And who else said Bird was in Orlando? All I got was this...

    Prior to deciding on Rob Hennigan, the Orlando Magic met with Larry Bird about their open general manager position. The report states that Magic brass were in "high pursuit" of the current Pacers executive. Bird has still not met with Pacers owner Herb Simon to decide on their working relationship for next season.

    As a caveat, WKMG Local 6 in Orlando is very controversial site among NBA news and rumors aficionados. The site has been known to report false and ridiculous information involving the Magic. However, the site did break a huge story in early April reporting that Dwight Howard tried to get Stan Van Gundy fired. That led to the infamous dust-up between the two just days later, where Stan Van Gundy admitted to the report.
    http://www.iamagm.com/news/2012/06/2...anager.opening

  19. #390
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Pacers have never not spent on a player Bird wanted.

    Literally everyone who is reporting or involved in the situation says that payroll is not the issue.

    It's naive to believe what has been proven?

    I say it's silly to look for conspiracies when there isn't any reason to.
    The Pacers never really had cap space until this past year and presently. Sure, they spent on David West, but that was just to get us to the salary cap floor. I don't think it's fair to use past history on that one, when the biggest free agent splurges we made prior to that under Bird's reign were Sarunas and Dahntay Jones. I think Simon has proven he will spend a considerable amount, but maybe not at the extent Bird was hoping for.

    I'm not sure it's been proven at all. I'm willing to leave that door open instead of immediately assuming and closing doors. No one has directly said one way or another whether money currently isn't an issue, as even Bird skipped around the issue a bit today. Mike Wells doesn't know. We just don't know. I'm leaving open the possibility, but not really taking a stance one way or the other except that is is a legitimate question.

  20. #391
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Mike Wells doesn't know. We just don't know. I'm leaving open the possibility, but not really taking a stance one way or the other except that is is a legitimate question.
    Bird skipped around in your opinion, but ended with no.

    Wells and everyone on 1070 and the Star covering the story have all said their sources say payroll isn't and hasn't been an issue with Simon.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Bird skipped around in your opinion, but ended with no.

    Wells and everyone on 1070 and the Star covering the story have all said their sources say payroll isn't and hasn't been an issue with Simon.
    Links to the bottom ones? From everything that's been re-hashed here on here, nothings been definitive.

  22. #393
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Links to the bottom ones? From everything that's been re-hashed here on here, nothings been definitive.
    I've posted links to the podcasts with Wells throughout the thread, he said something like "all my sources say payroll isn't a problem."

    There are links to Kravitz in Star. And DD, JMV and Grady have said the same for the past two days on 1070.

    Not to mention, a page back Well says what Bird said, LB may come back after he takes care of his health.

    Why would Bird come back if payroll is the issue, not his health?

  23. #394
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I've posted links to the podcasts with Wells throughout the thread, he said something like "all my sources say payroll isn't a problem."

    There are links to Kravitz in Star. And DD, JMV and Grady have said the same for the past two days on 1070.

    Not to mention, a page back Well says what Bird said, LB may come back after he takes care of his health.

    Why would Bird come back if payroll is the issue, not his health?
    And I've listened to the podcasts, and read re-hashed comments and none of it has been definitive.

    Again, why would Bird close a door, when he doesn't have to?

  24. #395
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    And I've listened to the podcasts, and read re-hashed comments and none of it has been definitive.
    Wells said his sources say it's not and hasn't been payroll and Bird will be back after health is in order. The guy who broke the story in the first place.

    Kravitz wrote it isn't payroll.

    Big Joe and Grady said yesterday that they heard nothing about it being payroll and reiterated it after speaking with Wells.

    JMV and DD both said that LB left because of his back, not payroll.

    How much more definitive can they be??

    Again, why would Bird close a door, when he doesn't have to?
    He doesn't have to say he might be back in a year to leave a door open. Talk about making things black and white.

    LB did more than just not burn any bridges.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Wells said his sources say it's not and hasn't been payroll and Bird will be back after health is in order. The guy who broke the story in the first place.

    Kravitz wrote it isn't payroll.

    Big Joe and Grady said yesterday that they heard nothing about it being payroll and reiterated it after speaking with Wells.

    JMV and DD both said that LB left because of his back, not payroll.

    How much more definitive can they be??



    He doesn't have to say he might be back in a year to leave a door open. Talk about making things black and white.

    LB did more than just not burn any bridges.

    I will only point out that whatever Kravitz said, the opposite is probably true. No one is going to say that was the cause. Didn't Bird make it clear that he wanted to have a meeting with Simon and find out how much Simon was willing to spend before signing up for more? I think that is exactly what happened and Bird didn't like what he heard and exited stage left.......

  26. #397
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I will only point out that whatever Kravitz said, the opposite is probably true. No one is going to say that was the cause. Didn't Bird make it clear that he wanted to have a meeting with Simon and find out how much Simon was willing to spend before signing up for more? I think that is exactly what happened and Bird didn't like what he heard and exited stage left.......


    No good havin' Ol' Blu on your squad, sorry PR07.

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  28. #398

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Didn't Bird say, after the season ended, that he wanted to come back or did he just say he loves his job? I know that Larry has always considered stepping aside after each season but it just seemed like all indications pointed towards Bird coming back.

    I don't believe that Simon pushed Bird out. At first, I didn't know what to think. If Simon wanted to just get rid of Larry I don't think he would have let David go and replace him with KP, Bird's guy.

    The Pacers have two of the best you can ask for in your front office in Donnie Walsh and Kevin Pritchard. We know the strengths and weaknesses of those two, especially Donnie. I think Donnie learned his lesson on the importance of team culture and I think Kevin learned him mistakes he made in Portland. However, I still don't like Donnie's history of overpaying for his own players. This really worries me with two key free agents in George Hill and Roy Hibbert. Even if the Pacers don't use the cap space on other free agents I am really hoping that they are able, and Hibbert and/or Hill allow them, to front load their contracts. KP did this with Paul Milsap when he signed him to an offer-sheet that Utah matched.

    I don't think it was just about Bird's health. The way Larry talked in the press conference today him leaving the Pacers is not retirement. He is simply taking a break for a year. I don't think it makes sense that he comes back in a year or two as team president to take Donnie's spot, again. I was hoping it might be in an ownership role but it doesn't sound like Bird has much interest in that when he was asked that today. Something doesn't make sense here but I am not for sure what it is. I don't believe that it is about Simon's unwillingness to spend money. I think he is. Maybe Bird really wanted to go after Eric Gordon, the one star free agent who the Pacers probably have a legit shot at, but Simon wouldn't budge on his rule to stay away from other team's restricted free agents or maybe Bird really believes in change and saw this as the perfect time to step away.

    I am disappointed to see Bird go. I love what he did with this team and I appreciate the way he sees the game of basketball. It is a sad day in Pacers basketball to see him go. However, the Pacers can do much worse than having Donnie Walsh as team president and Kevin Pritchard as general manager.

  29. #399
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Wells said his sources say it's not and hasn't been payroll and Bird will be back after health is in order. The guy who broke the story in the first place.

    Kravitz wrote it isn't payroll.

    Big Joe and Grady said yesterday that they heard nothing about it being payroll and reiterated it after speaking with Wells.

    JMV and DD both said that LB left because of his back, not payroll.

    How much more definitive can they be??



    He doesn't have to say he might be back in a year to leave a door open. Talk about making things black and white.

    LB did more than just not burn any bridges.
    For someone who wants everything concrete, all you've given me is your interpretations of what they've said. I've heard the same interviews, podcasts, quotes, etc. and they were far from definitive. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

  30. #400
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    For someone who wants everything concrete, all you've given me is your interpretations of what they've said. I've heard the same interviews, podcasts, quotes, etc. and they were far from definitive. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
    I've heard everyone reporting and involved say it's not about money, don't know how more definitive they can be.

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