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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #301
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Ugh, Bill Polian gets canned by the Colts only for Walsh to return to the Pacers a mere 6 month later. When Polian was fired, I thought that meant the days of watching old, past-their-prime GM's run the teams I love were finally over. I guess I spoke too soon.
    I've never quite understood how someone could be "past their prime" on a job like that. Its impossible for a team to ALWAYS compete, in fact, I can promise you teams will almost always have terrible years. Its not because the GM is past their prime.

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  3. #302
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I've never quite understood how someone could be "past their prime" on a job like that. Its impossible for a team to ALWAYS compete, in fact, I can promise you teams will almost always have terrible years. Its not because the GM is past their prime.
    Bill Polian would not have been fired if he were still the same GM that he was in Buffalo and his first 8 Indy years (through about 06).

  4. #303
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I've never quite understood how someone could be "past their prime" on a job like that. Its impossible for a team to ALWAYS compete, in fact, I can promise you teams will almost always have terrible years. Its not because the GM is past their prime.
    People get fat and happy.

    Their egos grow.

    They forget where they came from and the hard work they put in to get where they are at.

    They forget how hard people nipping at their heels are working.

    They get tired of doing the little things.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  6. #304
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I just hope Simon isnt the reason Bird left and being able to spend in free agency on top talent al Steve Nash. If that is the reason I doubt we ever truly contend with this core unless KP can get very lucky in trades and hitting home runs late in the draft.
    i fear the same thing.

    right now there is alot of speacalation and assuption. not sure who has the final veto on draft, trades,etc.

    which is the same reason walsh bird combo nvr worked imo.

    i like pritchard as gm. walsh should only be a consultant. but thats not gonna happen.

    alot of respect for donnie walsh. just liked the direction this team was going with Bird.

    at the end of the day i think Legend made it clear. he would only come back if this team was willing to spend to compete for championships. this is probably financial. and health for Bird prob played a factor as well.

    nash was the guy i wanted to see the pacers go for. Legend gives you a chance to bring that here. i dont see it under dw.

  7. #305

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    It will be intersting to hear what the presser has to say tomorrow, but I don't see Walsh coming back to be the #2 man in the FO. It's hard to be someone else's subordinate when you have been the #1 for 20 plus years.

    We'll see tomorrow, but then again I wouldn't be surprised if the chain of command isn't discussed in the presser. Basically, Bird is stepping down with health issues, and Walsh coming back to smooth out Bird's departure. Blah blah blah.

  8. #306
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Something just hit me. How could Simon be the reason Bird is leaving? They have not had their meeting yet.

    Or have they had their meeting?

  9. #307
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Something just hit me. How could Simon be the reason Bird is leaving? They have not had their meeting yet.

    Or have they had their meeting?
    Wells said Bird and Simon talk on the phone pretty much everyday.

    Kravitz and Wells both said that Simon had to of known before the leak.

  10. #308
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Wait, what if Morway leaked?

    I assume anyone with the team would not want this information out right before the draft.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I've never quite understood how someone could be "past their prime" on a job like that. Its impossible for a team to ALWAYS compete, in fact, I can promise you teams will almost always have terrible years. Its not because the GM is past their prime.

    People in any sort of job can get to a point where they no longer do the job as good as they once did. It can happen for a variety of reasons.

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  13. #310
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Wells said Bird and Simon talk on the phone pretty much everyday.

    Kravitz and Wells both said that Simon had to of known before the leak.
    Fair enough, but how many in this thread have suggested that they have not met yet

  14. #311
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I guess Wells could be wrong. But if he is wrong about that...

  15. #312
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    It really does figure being a pacer fan I guess things were going to well for us. I don't really mind who stays and who goes. What I do mind is that days before one of the most pivotal offseasons the pacers have had, our front office becomes an episode of game of thrones and this crazy who is running the show sort of chaos is taking place.

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  17. #313
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    i fear the same thing.

    right now there is alot of speacalation and assuption. not sure who has the final veto on draft, trades,etc.

    which is the same reason walsh bird combo nvr worked imo.

    i like pritchard as gm. walsh should only be a consultant. but thats not gonna happen.

    alot of respect for donnie walsh. just liked the direction this team was going with Bird.

    at the end of the day i think Legend made it clear. he would only come back if this team was willing to spend to compete for championships. this is probably financial. and health for Bird prob played a factor as well.

    nash was the guy i wanted to see the pacers go for. Legend gives you a chance to bring that here. i dont see it under dw.
    Bird's pondered resignation/retirement for a while so I can't imagine anything happened between he and Simon.

    Simon came out last year and flat out said he's open to spending. He often stays out of the spotlight and allows the FO to do what they need to do.

    We've gotten this far to finish the 5th best team in the league so I trust Simon and the FO to continue to do the right things to make us even more of a contender.
    Last edited by Trophy; 06-26-2012 at 08:13 PM.

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  19. #314

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    People get fat and happy.

    Their egos grow.

    They forget where they came from and the hard work they put in to get where they are at.

    They forget how hard people nipping at their heels are working.

    They get tired of doing the little things.
    Most importantly they fail to adjust and adapt to the changing/changed environment. This was Donnie Walsh's issue, and I'm pretty sure it still will be.

  20. #315

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Wait, what if Morway leaked?
    Now you're getting there. Look at the Morway resignation that quickly followed the leak. Pure speculation, but this was probably known for days (if not weeks) and was not supposed to be news until after the draft.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Im not saying this is true but my take on it is Donnie is well respected around the leagues front office people, and maybe the whole negoting cntracts , salary cap stuff is not KP's strength

    I think ths will work much better than intially perceived. Donnie has a wealth of experience, and yes he made mistakes but

    He is the only GM/Pres in the history of the franchise to guide us to the NBA Finals

    Anyone remember the Mark Jackson trade or Jalen Rose , then turning Jalen to Artest and B Miller

    I think this has been in the plans for awhile and always thought Bird wanted to groom KP for this as soon as he was let go by Portland and brought on by Pacers

    PLus it was said Pritchard made it a "point to break bread often with staff and Walsh alike last year"

    I think KP learned something when he was let go by Portland, and I think he can learn something from Walsh

    Just my 2 cents
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  23. #317
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Look its pretty obvious by now, Simon has no interested in signing a big name FA or going after a RFA that would push the payroll above cap once we sign our existing players. To Bird that means that the daily grind of running this organization is not worth it considering the terrible condition of his back. Terrible situation, I think we definitely have an ownership problem. I understand, losing upwards of 20 million a year during some of the past 10 years is bad. But if you aren't striving to get better, then you will eventually get worse and worse.

    They will mask this was purely a medical issue for Bird, but seeing a rejuvenated Bird just a month ago I don't buy it. Bird knows what it takes to win a championship, Herb isn't willing to spend it. Bird isn't willing to settle.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 06-26-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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  25. #318
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Simon came out last year and flat out said he's open to spending. He often stays out of the spotlight and allows the FO to do what they need to do.
    There's a difference between talking and actually doing it though. No owner wants to look like he doesn't care all about winning in front of his fanbase. The fact is we don't know whether Simon would or would not spend and to what extent. Yes, you could point to the past, but that's when the Pacers had fairly good attendance. Maybe Larry told Simon his plans, and Simon said we didn't have the money to back such moves (purely speculation), but we just don't know either way.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Look its pretty obvious by now, Simon has no interested in signing a big name FA or going after a RFA that would push the payroll above cap once we sign our existing players. To Bird that means that the daily grind of running this organization is not worth it considering the terrible condition of his back. Terrible situation, I think we definitely have an ownership problem. I understand, losing upwards of 20 million a year during some of the past 10 years is bad. But if you aren't striving to get better, then you will eventually get worse and worse.

    They will mask this was purely a medical issue for Bird, but seeing a rejuvenated Bird just a month ago I don't buy it. Bird knows what it takes to win a championship, Herb isn't willing to spend it. Bird isn't willing to settle.
    How can u say that brah ? He gave JO 6 years and 120M or so. Gave (God bless him) Austin freakin Crosher 55M. Tinsley. Artest, Bender, the list goes on and on.

    I think some people got it twisted , Simon doesn't want to spend money to stay average, but if it was a player he really loved or thought was the missing piece, he's proven he will shell out the money
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  28. #320

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    ^ those are players he retained, mostly at above market value. Not free agents he acquired because he "thought he was the missing piece."

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Bill Polian would not have been fired if he were still the same GM that he was in Buffalo and his first 8 Indy years (through about 06).
    From what has been said about the inner workings of the Colts (nothing actually confirmed, but commonly excepted), it seems it is more likely Bill was fired because when his son Chris took over a large portion of his job (the only thing actually confirmed) was when things started to go down hill. Since Bill was ready to retire from being GM, when Chris was fired by default Bill was also. So you can accept that or not, but I personally believe the problem wasn't Bill himself, but his son, and the only way Bill was going to stay around was if his son was going to stay around.

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  31. #322
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Look its pretty obvious by now, Simon has no interested in signing a big name FA or going after a RFA that would push the payroll above cap once we sign our existing players. To Bird that means that the daily grind of running this organization is not worth it considering the terrible condition of his back. Terrible situation, I think we definitely have an ownership problem. I understand, losing upwards of 20 million a year during some of the past 10 years is bad. But if you aren't striving to get better, then you will eventually get worse and worse.

    They will mask this was purely a medical issue for Bird, but seeing a rejuvenated Bird just a month ago I don't buy it. Bird knows what it takes to win a championship, Herb isn't willing to spend it. Bird isn't willing to settle.
    You know this is the second time in all of my years following the Pacers under Simon that I have had this thought. Brad Miller was the first time & now this.

    I'm not saying I'm on board with this line of thinking, yet. But I am now once again put into a position where I have to question it.

    If this is truely health related that is one thing but if this is really about money then.... well I don't know what then as I have little to no choice.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  32. #323
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    ^ those are players he retained, mostly at above market value. Not free agents he acquired because he "thought he was the missing piece."
    But it does show that Simon is willing to spend if he deems it necessary.

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  34. #324
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Me too. I love Larry, but I think he may have been loyal to some of our guys to a fault. Not that it has really hurt the team up until now, but it has the potential to be harmful in the future if the time really comes to trade someone like Granger while his value is still high.
    That's decent motive for Bird stepping down. Trading Granger, Hans, etc. may becoming really obvious needs, and his loyalty side would prefer not to do that dirty work.
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  36. #325
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Look its pretty obvious by now, Simon has no interested in signing a big name FA or going after a RFA that would push the payroll above cap once we sign our existing players. To Bird that means that the daily grind of running this organization is not worth it considering the terrible condition of his back. Terrible situation, I think we definitely have an ownership problem. I understand, losing upwards of 20 million a year during some of the past 10 years is bad. But if you aren't striving to get better, then you will eventually get worse and worse.

    They will mask this was purely a medical issue for Bird, but seeing a rejuvenated Bird just a month ago I don't buy it. Bird knows what it takes to win a championship, Herb isn't willing to spend it. Bird isn't willing to settle.
    Yeah, I just can't stop thinking about how excited Bird seemed about coming back a mere month ago when he said he would "Do it today if Herbie were here (where was Herb, btw?)." Bird is a man of few words, so it was very significant for him to say he wanted to come back and it certainly meant something. Thus after seeing what Bird said a month ago, there is no way I'm buying that this is a health-related issue unless he had some big flare-up in the past few weeks. Maybe he did, but the Simons not being willing to spend is much more believable, IMO. When Bird made those comments in late May he would have had plenty of time to evaluate his health and know where he was at physically.

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