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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #251

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I expect Kevin to try to bring Oden and Broy as our backups.
    Yeah I think so also. I also think thats why we havent heard anything on fab melo.
    "Did we learn anything?"-Jonathan Ames

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  2. #252
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm calling BS on this. So now Bird made the GS trade instead of Walsh!


    Edit: When Monteith was the Star writer he made the statement that "everyone knows Bird didn't take over until ...." The date was after Walsh left. He was adament about it b/c some on RATS some disputed his statement. He came off very haughty about his knowledge of when Bird took over.
    The trade was made by both guys, the "D Walsh made the trade and Larry didn't have anything to do with that" is a huge myth.

    Edit: and even if he didn't have anything to do with the trade, he would have try to move those guys but then we get into the other "nobody can't trade crap players" myth.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 06-26-2012 at 03:48 PM.

  3. #253

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Why is everybody freaking out? Bird has been good, not great for us. He has made several mistakes in the past that everybody seems to be forgetting about. The Shawne Williams draft pick. Trading up to draft James White. Drafting Hansbrough before Ty Lawson. Most recently, Bird traded a first round pick for a role player in George Hill. And the biggest, most unforgettable mistake of them all, keeping JOB as coach entirely too long.

    Believe me I haven't forgotten Bird's mistakes, but you have to give Bird credit when credit is due too. Even I am in the Bird camp about how this situation is working out. It's not so much that I truly mind Bird leaving it's when it's ending, how it's ending, and the return of Walsh that is just frustrating the carp out of me.

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  5. #254

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Didn't Hill get dumped with some other guys for McGrady and his huge expiring deal to open up more cap?


    Yep.

  6. #255
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    well one thing is official...


    JMV1070 ‏@JMV1070

    The Indiana Pacers announced Tuesday that David Morway has resigned as General Manager of the franchise. per pacers

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  8. #256
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    well one thing is official...
    Gee whiz, why does this great season have to be followed by a self-imposed FO fire sale? It's gonna hard to continue success without experienced management.


    Carmel HS Class of 2011

  9. #257

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Press conference tomorrow at 11.

    https://twitter.com/#!/Pacers

  10. #258
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by neosmndrew View Post
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    Gee whiz, why does this great season have to be followed by a self-imposed FO fire sale? It's gonna hard to continue success without experienced management.
    What? Walsh and Pritchard are two of the most experienced guys in the game.

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  12. #259
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Although we all saw this coming with Morway, coupled with everything else going on this all just feels so bizarre.

    It feels like the end when last season's success should of started the beginning.

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  14. #260
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I really don't view this as the end, at all. Walsh and Pritchard are very capable of continuing this team's success. I'll even go out on a limb and say that maybe they are willing to move and shake enough to get the team to the next level.

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  16. #261
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I'm just going to hope that everything is for the best

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  18. #262
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
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    I really don't view this as the end, at all. Walsh and Pritchard are very capable of continuing this team's success. I'll even go out on a limb and say that maybe they are willing to move and shake enough to get the team to the next level.
    Me too. I love Larry, but I think he may have been loyal to some of our guys to a fault. Not that it has really hurt the team up until now, but it has the potential to be harmful in the future if the time really comes to trade someone like Granger while his value is still high.

    Let's just hope Donnie got all of his whiffs (Bender, Shawne) out of his system the last go-around. Similarly aggressive moves, though, might be the ticket for this team as it is currently configured.

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  20. #263
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Bird is definitely going to be missed but Walsh and KP have a great track record.

    Walsh is a great basketball mind. He cleaned up the mess in NY...both guys are also great scouts
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Me too. I love Larry, but I think he may have been loyal to some of our guys to a fault. Not that it has really hurt the team up until now, but it has the potential to be harmful in the future if the time really comes to trade someone like Granger while his value is still high.

    Let's just hope Donnie got all of his whiffs (Bender, Shawne) out of his system the last go-around. Similarly aggressive moves, though, might be the ticket for this team as it is currently configured.
    Absolutely. I do wish Bird wasn't leaving, but just because I am such a big fan of him all around. However, there is a crucial time in the life of a young team when they either become the Hawks or the Celtics for the next 5-6 years. As you said, aggressive moves--in some cases--are needed to be more like the latter.

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  23. #265
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
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    I really don't view this as the end, at all.
    No matter what you think the new leadership can do, the Bird era and his planning and decision making for this team is over.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    No matter what you think the new leadership can do, the Bird era and his planning and decision making for this team is over.
    You're absolutely right, and I respect that completely; however, I'm not going to call the change bad until it proves itself bad.

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  26. #267

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Applying Occam's Razor, I get Donnie in charge with KP doing the basketball related stuff. basically KP's the idea guy and Donnie makes the final OK's. That sounds like a good plan. Both these guys are as smart as they come about NBA stuff. It uses their strengths. Donnie's old school. good on the phone. can make a deal. knows good players when he sees them. all that stuff. KP is new school. SABR [sp?] stuff, advanced stats. all the computer stuff. has his own value scale for players.

    It is easy to see a way they can use their strengths together.

    FWIW, I want Donnie involved in the drafting instead of Larry. Larry tends to draft 'NBA ready' players that fill a need. Donnie tends to draft 'talent'. I like drafting for talent and trading for need myself.

  27. #268
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The trade was made by both guys, the "D Walsh made the trade and Larry didn't have anything to do with that" is a huge myth.

    Edit: and even if he didn't have anything to do with the trade, he would have try to move those guys but then we get into the other "nobody can't trade crap players" myth.
    Except that it is not a myth. Bird was in Europe when the deal went down, Chris Mullen has said several times he only dealt with Donnie Walsh on that trade and while there was certainly corp. pressure being applied never forget that Donnie took on the salaries of Murphy & Dunleavy to be able to aquire the diamond in the rough that was Ike Diogu. He called him the cornerstone of that trade.

    I was never a fan of Bird the player but I always rushed to defend him on this one because I think there was a lot of hints of subtle racism hurled towards Bird for something that he had nothing to do with. A lot of people & I mean a lot of people assumed that Bird did the move because he wanted more white players and that is just blatantly unfair when it was never true to begin with.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  29. #269
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Me too. I love Larry, but I think he may have been loyal to some of our guys to a fault. Not that it has really hurt the team up until now, but it has the potential to be harmful in the future if the time really comes to trade someone like Granger while his value is still high.

    Let's just hope Donnie got all of his whiffs (Bender, Shawne) out of his system the last go-around. Similarly aggressive moves, though, might be the ticket for this team as it is currently configured.
    I totally agree and KP is amazing working the phones I think by next year this time the roster will be really different hopefully in a good way. That was my gripe with Bird he said Granger was untouchable and IMO no one is untouchable except maybe the top 5-10 players in the NBA(hell even they get traded sometimes).


    I just hope Simon isnt the reason Bird left and being able to spend in free agency on top talent al Steve Nash. If that is the reason I doubt we ever truly contend with this core unless KP can get very lucky in trades and hitting home runs late in the draft.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-26-2012 at 04:49 PM.

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  31. #270
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
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    You're absolutely right, and I respect that completely; however, I'm not going to call the change bad until it proves itself bad.
    Not saying it was bad, in fact part of me thinks Pritchard might make that aggressive moves that gets us to the next level.

    I'm saying major front office changes usually happens when the team is heading in the wrong direction, not after the most successful season in years.

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  33. #271
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Not saying it was bad, in fact part of me thinks Pritchard might make that aggressive moves that gets us to the next level.

    I'm saying major front office changes usually happens when the team is heading in the wrong direction, not after the most successful season in years.
    The timing is extremely peculiar, I'll give you that.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I definitely wanted Bird to stick around, but I would be fine with this if it were just Pritchard taking over. It's the Walsh addition that bums me out. Why is this necessary? We just got finished cleaning up the mess that Walsh's post-2000 moves left us in, but now we're bringing him back?

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  36. #273

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    got the carp

    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The trade was made by both guys, the "D Walsh made the trade and Larry didn't have anything to do with that" is a huge myth.

    Edit: and even if he didn't have anything to do with the trade, he would have try to move those guys but then we get into the other "nobody can't trade crap players" myth.
    You can trade crap players, it's just that most of the time you also have to take crap players in return as well as sometimes give up draft picks. This was eloquently explained by xBulletproof when you brought up the Knicks doing it.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Bird traded a "crap" player in Murphy for a young PG.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Also, we can debate all day as to who had more power when Bird and Walsh were together from 03-08. But what cannot be debated is that this team has drastically improved since Walsh left and Bird gained complete control.

    So even if you can pin some of the stuff from 03-08 on Bird, you are immediately trumped by the fact that the team has drastically improved over the past 4 years.

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