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Thread: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

  1. #226
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Until Pritchard's fired and Morway's back next week.

    And I know that's not green.
    I thought the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a Walsh and Morway team.

    This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.

  2. #227
    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What I most want is a flipping PLAN in place and some sense that the TPTB have a clear, focused vision. This team can stay in Indy and win. I think Herb has Donnie coming in because he knows and trusts him.
    This is why I wanted Bird "completely in or out" last season....not the way that this ended up. A clear vision could be better achieved when you are not headed down the wrong path that you did not choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.
    From what we can tell, Bird was "hemming and hawing" on whether he will stay or not......despite his health....all season long.

    I can see health issues as a possible reason that Bird couldn't foresee last season......and therefore couldn't predict that he'd be forced to step down of his own accord. But I don't get the sense that health is the real reason why he's stepping down.

    I really think ( just like you ) that all of this came down to Bird's vision of the future ( and what it will likely cost the Simons to get there ) and how it meshed with what the Simons were willing to do get there. Both sides didn't see entirely "eye to eye" and Bird decided to just leave.
    Last edited by CableKC; 06-26-2012 at 02:03 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  3. #228
    Member MiaDragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I thought the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a Walsh and Morway team.

    This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.

    Yea I dont buy it was a "health" related decision. I thought we were finally heading in the right direction and now Im not sure what to think. Maybe it is time for Simon to sell the team.

  4. #229
    Bring Back Bender bballpacen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    The speculation of Simon not wanting to spend could be a reason for the lack luster trading deadline of last season for the Pacers...

  5. #230
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    The speculation of Simon not wanting to spend could be a reason for the lack luster trading deadline of last season for the Pacers...
    you mean the one where we added 7.6 million in salary?

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  7. #231

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    says herb and Bird talked daily said Simon would spend money. But Larry wanted to go for it all and wanted to get best players and Wells not sure if Herb would spend when times comes to it would he pay the LT to get the team to a championship level and add elite players.


    Wells said more to it than health wanted to really win.


    Says Larry will stay on for the draft (duh lol)


    Said Donnie Kevin and Bird probably wouldn't of worked.


    said Donnie is gonna be running the show ****!!!


    said KP will be GM **** I wanted KP as the decision maker.


    Wells said he is shocked that Bird left though he would stay to see the team win.

    My biggest fear... Walsh in control making the decisions. Son of a biscuit eater!!!!

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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    So Donnie Walsh returns and is getting a second chance here with the Pacers.
    Things got pretty bad under his watch the last time he was here, and it almost
    destroyed the franchise.

    I really hope Herb Simon makes it very clear to Walsh that if he starts bringing
    in dysfunctional knuckleheads and signing them to outrageous contracts again,
    like the last time things got so terribly screwed up, that he will be fired and
    there will be no more chances.

  9. #233
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Why is everybody freaking out? Bird has been good, not great for us. He has made several mistakes in the past that everybody seems to be forgetting about. The Shawne Williams draft pick. Trading up to draft James White. Drafting Hansbrough before Ty Lawson. Most recently, Bird traded a first round pick for a role player in George Hill. And the biggest, most unforgettable mistake of them all, keeping JOB as coach entirely too long.
    David "And One" West

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  11. #234

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Gallinari is pretty damn good

    How did Jordan Hill the 09 #8 pick work out?

  12. #235
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Didn't Hill get dumped with some other guys for McGrady and his huge expiring deal to open up more cap?

  13. #236
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Why is everybody freaking out? Bird has been good, not great for us. He has made several mistakes in the past that everybody seems to be forgetting about. The Shawne Williams draft pick. Trading up to draft James White. Drafting Hansbrough before Ty Lawson. Most recently, Bird traded a first round pick for a role player in George Hill. And the biggest, most unforgettable mistake of them all, keeping JOB as coach entirely too long.
    Trading GH for Leonard was not a bad move. It was a risky move...but a move that made sense and addressed a need.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  14. #237

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Vecsey just said Larry was in charge the last few years Donnie and Bird were here together.


    Called Walsh a Consultant to Larry while in Indy his last few years said Bird had 100% control.

    I'm calling BS on this. So now Bird made the GS trade instead of Walsh!


    Edit: When Monteith was the Star writer he made the statement that "everyone knows Bird didn't take over until ...." The date was after Walsh left. He was adament about it b/c some on RATS some disputed his statement. He came off very haughty about his knowledge of when Bird took over.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 06-26-2012 at 02:53 PM.

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  16. #238
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Well we have ZERO evidence of Herb EVER failing to hit the cap. The Pacers spent 20 straight years OVER THE CAP to the point that they were never able to sign big FAs because they DIDN'T HAVE CAP SPACE.

    (not yelling at you, emphasizing for everyone)

    This whole "we don't sign FAs" thing is 100% BULLS***. The RULES always stated that the Pacers were not allowed to sign FAs other than MLEs (they did) or Min Exceptions (they did). They spent tons keeping guys like Reggie, Dale, Rik, etc around. They went max on JO's new deal.


    This doesn't mean that Herb is not currently willing to go over the cap, I can't argue that. I'm just saying that if we look at evidence the only non-rumor evidence we have is past behavior. Simon was willing to spend for David West and was willing to let Bird "sign" Barbosa in a pick for salary trade.

    When have the Pacers EVER had a legal (by CBA) shot at a big time FA that they went cheap and passed instead? They didn't resign Peja (great choice) and they didn't resign Brad Miller.

    But in Peja's case he became a TE and Simon did allow it to be used to "sign" Harrington in a non-salary for salary trade. And in Brad's case the Pacers took back Ron Mercer and Scot Pollard's salary in the end, so they didn't cut costs they just avoided a risky investment.
    My point, as well as my guess is the Pacers likely stand pat with the guys they have (this offseason), lock them up to long-term contracts this year and the next few offseasons and that will be that, as it will get us close to the salary cap threshold sooner rather than later. That though, isn't good enough, and it's likely why Bird walked away as this team still needs another piece or two. Such pieces would quickly propel us into luxury tax land, but it would solidify us as a contender and not just this decade's version of the Atlanta Hawks. We need to spend something this offseason on a good piece, or we'll likely not have such an opportunity again for a while.
    Last edited by PR07; 06-26-2012 at 02:53 PM.

  17. #239
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Just when we finally get things on the right track....


    This is seriously a cluster ****.

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  19. #240

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I could really see Danny going for a high draft pick tomorrow with this news. Man, this is some craziness, and here I thought we would have an eventful, but relatively stress free offseason. Guess I was wrong.

    EDIT: If Walsh is going to be pres doesn't that give him control over Pritchard? Who is saying Pritch will be in charge? I am so confused right now. I can only imagine how our players must feel.


    I thanked you for the edit part of your post.

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  21. #241
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Wow, lots of wild rampant speculation and assumptions in this thread. Obviously there are huge chunks of missing information here and it appears that things might not even be settled yet. I'm waiting for more info to see where this goes. Not sure what to think at this point...

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  23. #242

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm not convinced they've finalized exactly what's going to happen, hence the cat isn't really out of the bag completely just yet.

    I sure hope you are right!

  24. #243
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    The one major issue is if there's a lot of change during the draft, Danny/DC/Tyler being traded, it may signal the end of Roy being in Indiana if he demands to not be a Pacer anymore. (Not that I see that in Roy's personality) I've always thought it was going to take the max to resign Hibbert, and we'll see in the next couple weeks if that becomes the case, either way it can't be good for negotiations. I also thought George Hill was a Bird move so that may mean the team is not going to resign him either if it gets too expensive. I'm not saying the Pacers will be cheap all of a sudden, it may just mean there's a new roster in place.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  25. #244
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    The one major issue is if there's a lot of change during the draft, Danny/DC/Tyler being traded, it may signal the end of Roy being in Indiana if he demands to not be a Pacer anymore. (Not that I see that in Roy's personality) I've always thought it was going to take the max to resign Hibbert, and we'll see in the next couple weeks if that becomes the case, either way it can't be good for negotiations. I also thought George Hill was a Bird move so that may mean the team is not going to resign him either if it gets too expensive. I'm not saying the Pacers will be cheap all of a sudden, it may just mean there's a new roster in place.
    If Hibbert is asking for the max, then we should let him walk. The NBA has moved away from big, lumbering centers
    David "And One" West

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    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    If Hibbert is asking for the max, then we should let him walk. The NBA has moved away from big, lumbering centers
    Well it may not take the max if Houston finds a way to get Dwight Howard, they've always been the major team that was willing to spend and wants a big badly.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  27. #246

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Hibbert is not leaving.

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  29. #247

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Walsh isn't coming here to be a security blanket....he's only coming here is he is the guy making the final call on all decisions ( before, of course...presenting the decision to the Simons ).

    That's how I see it, and what Peter Vecsey said. Walsh will have the final say in the FO. I don't like it in any way, shape, or form.

  30. #248

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    70 and wizened and polished.

    Some are even more so in their 80's!!

  31. #249
    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    I like Larry but I too would much prefer Kevin Pritchard. Keeping my fingers crossed.

  32. #250

    Default Re: Larry Bird LEAVING the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I really think ( just like you ) that all of this came down to Bird's vision of the future ( and what it will likely cost the Simons to get there ) and how it meshed with what the Simons were willing to do get there. Both sides didn't see entirely "eye to eye" and Bird decided to just leave.


    I'd say you are on the right track in your thinking.

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