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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

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  • #1

    Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

    http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3181934

    Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers
    Sean Deveney / TSN
    Posted: 1 hour ago

    INDIANAPOLlS - Imagine being an employee who must sit in a chair while, a few feet over either shoulder, crowds of observers loudly register their opinions, mostly negative and sometimes grossly profane.

    This is what NBA players do nightly. You must sit there and accept it, without confronting the observers in question — the verbal abuse is just part of the job. Now imagine that abuse turns physical. Instead of hurling epithets, the observers hurl objects. Maybe a bucket of popcorn, maybe a cup of beer. This is not part of the job. This is assault. What do you do?

    If you're Ron Artest, you leap to your feet, you bound into the crowd and you find someone who might (or might not, as it turns out), be the guy who tossed his drink at you. If you're Ron Artest, you then treat that guy as if he were a too-stiff pillow — you try to pound him until he's soft. This leaves several players recognizing your actions as self-defense, a natural human instinct, but others looking at it differently.

    If Artest does not go into the stands, says Magic forward Pat Garrity, "Nothing happens. The whole thing does not happen."

    Plenty happened Friday night at the Palace of Auburn Hills, when a skirmish between the Pistons and Pacers devolved into a bizarre and revolting display after Artest stormed into the crowd seeking revenge for the apparently heinous crime of being hit in the chest by a plastic cup. Fans and players fought in the seats and on the floor, and nearly every kind of food product available at the Palace was hurled at Pacers players. Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said he feared for his life. Pistons coach Larry Brown said it was the ugliest thing he has seen as a coach or a player. Commissioner David Stern, in a statement, called the incident, "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable — a humiliation for everyone associated with the NBA."

    Blame fans. Blame alcohol. Blame a security force that was not prepared (and, realistically, could not have been prepared) for widespread chaos. But most of all, blame Artest. The NBA did, suspending him for the rest of the season — a punishment that was warranted. Restraint in the face of fan hostility is difficult, but necessary. Artest showed none. True, he was hit with an object from the stands, and the idiot who threw it should have been arrested. But it was a cup that hit him, not a brick or a Molotov cocktail. Artest apologists have pointed out that he was assaulted when he was hit, but remember: He was assaulted by a plastic cup, and he responded by administering a beating from his 246-pound body.

    NBA officials were in Auburn Hills and Indianapolis the next day, interviewing players and coaches, deciding how suspensions should be doled out. The league did not go lightly on anyone, suspending nine players for a total of more than 140 games. After Artest, the most severe penalties were handed to Pacers Stephen Jackson (30 games), Jermaine O'Neal (25) and Anthony Johnson (five). Pistons center Ben Wallace, whose shove of Artest ignited the fracas, got six games. Artest is the most controversial figure in the NBA, and possibly in all of sports. (The brawl made Terrell Owens' Desperate Housewives skit look like an episode of SpongeBob SquarePants.) Artest is an All-Star, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year and a wonderfully unique player. He is 6 foot 7, a defensive stalwart, and a guy who can pour in 25 points. Yet he is a player who has done more harm to than good for the Pacers.

    Whether you think of Artest as a victim or a menace, he has unquestionably jeopardized Indiana's chances at a championship. Artest's suspension was costly enough. But he also led O'Neal and Jackson to suspensions, costing the Pacers their three best players. When Indiana played Orlando at home the night after the Detroit melee, Indiana had just six players available and lost. The Pacers figured to battle Detroit and Miami for the East's best record. Now they'll be fighting just to reach the playoffs.

    The question of what this does to the Pacers seems silly. "I think it's self-explanatory what this does," says rookie center David Harrison. "We've got six players. What do you think it does?"

    The fact is, Artest has done this to his team, and if you're a talent evaluator, you must weigh his temperament against his skill. Asked if he would want Artest on his team, radio analyst and former Warriors coach Eric Musselman said, "If you know he's going to be out there 82 nights, you want him. He plays hard all the time, he's a player the opposition fears and respects. ... But when there are suspensions, your ballclub is affected. Then he becomes a distraction you don't need. What Artest did in Detroit really hurt his team."

    The exercise of weighing how much Artest helps his team against how much he hurts it is not new — it's just reached a new level. Go back to Artest's days in Chicago, where his personality pushed the Bulls to trade him. He allegedly almost came to blows with coach Tim Floyd because Artest wore sweatpants on the bench while sitting out a game with an injury. Reporters in Chicago still recall with astonishment the time an angry Artest lifted and chucked a heavy stretching machine across the team's practice floor.

    Two years ago, after the Bulls sent him to Indiana, Artest was uncontrollable, missing 12 games because of suspensions. He cut out his bad acts last season, at least publicly. Still, one Eastern Conference scout says that the Pacers simply did a better job of covering for Artest, and that he still was a distraction. Then, just a week before the fight in Detroit, Artest was mysteriously benched for two games and told reporters he was, "tired from doing a little too much music," a reference to his work as a producer. Artest apparently had asked Carlisle for a month off, though Artest later hedged his statements after a torrent of negative commentary.

    A few weeks earlier, Artest complained about not being asked to be part of the Olympic team. Then, he turns around and says he needs more time for his music career?

    Even when focusing specifically on the incident in Detroit, Artest's actions leading up to the cup being thrown at him raise questions. The faceoff between Artest and Wallace that ignited the brawl started because of Artest's hard foul on Wallace with 45 seconds to play — and the Pacers up by 15 points. Why commit a hard foul with so little time left? Artest had been upset when Wallace blocked his layup attempt with 1:25 to play, and some trash-talking had been going on between the two, probably leading to the hard foul.

    "I would not take (Artest)," a Western Conference general manager says. "The Pacers won a lot of games last year with him. But I don't know that I could trust that, over the long run, he would not hurt the team, especially at some really important time."

    What easily is overlooked is that the Pacers are a very good team that came into the season determined to repeat last year's methodical, 61-win production behind Carlisle's suffocating defense and controlled offense. O'Neal is the best power forward in the East, and Jackson had been providing the clutch shooting expected of him when he was acquired last summer. The Pacers picked apart the Pistons (before the ruckus, of course) to move to 7-2, despite early-season injuries to O'Neal, Reggie Miller and Jeff Foster. With the Pistons struggling, the Pacers had established an early edge in the East. And now?

    The Pacers entertained trade offers for Artest this summer but could not complete a deal. The team is sticking by Artest, because, really, it has no choice. Whatever trade value he had took a nosedive with his music-career comments and all but disappeared during his Auburn Hills rampage. The Pacers are stuck with him. "The coaching staff, the franchise in general, steadfastly supports our players," Carlisle says.

    Artest is one of those players, and that is not going to change, certainly not this season. He has the steadfast support of his team. But Artest, despite his marvelous on-court skill, has not earned that support off the court. That will be the downfall of the Pacers.

    Sean Deveney is a staff writer for Sporting News. Email him at sdeveney@sportingnews.com.
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

    He makes a lot of good points. But if he is trying to cover the whole incident he tells about 40% of the story

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

      A depressingly accurate article.

      Ron's actions may have been understandable, and I'm fine with the harsh punishment he's received. But I also expect that whomever threw the bottle to charged with inciting a riot and locked up for a while. The NBA has administered justice, and with the exception of JO's punishment, it seems reasonable. Now its time for the Auburn Hills police force to throw some Detroit-area residents into jail.
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

        Auburn Hills Justice: community service and $ 500 fine.

        Accuracy percentage of this article, written over time (the brawl last friday?) or (more likely) snippets stolen left right and centre to make one hugely inaccurate article which can at best be described as provocative.

        I remain that 73+ games was not just.
        I remain that justice was at NO moment served, by letting the Pistons organization off the hook completely
        (racist choirs form the stands during a Spain v England match football cost the Spanish league (responsible for the national team) a $ 400 thousand fine, no riots)
        Even the order of things happening is wrong in this article, Wallace less "innocent" and so on. And more particularly: Artest "pounded" no one, instead he was pounded from behind.

        If you want to make a case for Ron being a danger to his team, then there is a far more valid article to write, without even touching the brawl.

        It is amazing how people's view of the incident here has altered over time, press must have a great influence on creating opinions and creating revisionist history.
        (either that or threads from "above")

        No one wonders why the "report" from the NBA on the matter never materialized, no one asks where this "enormous" report from the "arbitrator" is, no one publishes those things, which are at the heart of what has happened.
        No one talks about the Pistons organization not even being slapped on the wrist, despite talk abou tit in the beginning by the league.
        No one talks anymore about the statement the owners of the Pacers franchise made in the beginning, what became of that bold statement?

        Instead we all start blaming Ron for everything that went wrong this year, what has become of us?

        What has become of people when they start stating that the grieve thrown upon the players, by remarks and by coins, penauts, drinks, cups and such is something they "have to live with", as it is "part of the job"?
        Since when are NBA athletes paid to undergo this all?

        Are you accepting things like that on your workfloor? Does a conductor accept shouting people while performing?
        Why should PEOPLE who are playing a sport for our entertainment "accept" being slurred and having things thrown at them?

        It is time the NBA looked at the fans behaviour other then through idiotic "agreements" they will never enforce unless it good for the league's head-office.

        It is HIGH time that we the fans held the NBA responsible for NOT addressing the most expensive lesson to be learned, or this will all simply repeat itself, in all likelyhood not Ron, but one day another player will go bananas when he is hit with a bottle after already being pelted with coins.

        Players have obligations, but fans and organizations do to, and they go beyond delivering a product.
        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

          That is crazy, I started reading that, got about halfway through it and felt I was in a time warp, then I looked at the date

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

            Wait, when did Artest go into the stands and pound someone like a pillow? What he did was the same as what Wallace did to him. He did not start throwing punches until the cup thrower in the Wallace jersey started clocking him from behind like a little *****.
            Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

              For a moment I thought someone had stolen my password. I barely remember posting that article..........
              PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                I had lunch today with a friend who I haven't seen in a couple of years. After we caught up, our conversation turned to the Pacers. We both live in LA and he works in the entertainment industry, so he has no bias one way or another toward the Pacers or Ron Artest. His feelings about the whole thing pretty much reflect what I've heard from the average person (read: non-fan): Artest's punishment was deserved.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                  No offense, able, but why are we re-hashing a 115-day-old article?

                  At this point in time, virtually no one will alter their stance on the issues of 11/19.

                  So bringing it back up can do no good.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                    I agree with able....and beast23....

                    and I wasn't around here to state my opinion of it all after it went down....



                    RESIDENT COUNTING THREAD PHILOSOPHIZER

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                      BLAH, for one reason or another this ended up on top of my screen, I didn't check the date, I was stupid, and have come to the conclusion that I can only do 14 things simultaneously.

                      I am sorry for bringing this up.
                      So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                      If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                      Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                        Originally posted by Harmonica
                        Artest's punishment was deserved.
                        Come on now. You know as well as I do that deserve's got nothin' to do with it...........
                        PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                          Originally posted by MagicRat
                          Come on now. You know as well as I do that deserve's got nothin' to do with it...........
                          Damn, bîtch slapped by one of my favorite lines from a movie.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Artest deserves blame, especially from Pacers - Article

                            This guy blames Artest for everything. I mean he is pretty much says its Artest fault that the Pistons sucked. THe Pacers were winning(A Bad thing in his opinion), the guy was an ***. I have never once seen a fight or altercation that was entirely one persons fault. THis guy is probably just a pathetic little man who feels power at blaming other people for reacting in a way he THINKS he wouldn't lets surround him by 20,00 drunk angry people and see how reasonable he acts.

                            Comment

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