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Thread: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

  1. #1
    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Rome asks if the lottery is rigged. Stern's response:

    Ooookkkkkkayyyyyyy......

    http://deadspin.com/5918141/?utm_cam...ium=socialflow
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Stupid question gets a stupid response.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    It may be a stupid question, but it is not entirely beyond the pale because a lot of people are thinking the lottery is fixed. Stern's response was ridiculous and will just fuel conspiracy theorists more and more.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    "shame on you for asking."? Really?

    So, you go onto a talk show, and are surprised when the host brings up what is likely the second hottest NBA discussion right now?

    I don't know, I'm not the Stern fan that many seem to be. The guy is a BS politician, never following through on his comments/constantly passing the buck. (Oh, I've wanted to get rid of flopping for YEARS, the players association won't LET ME...Oh, I've thought they should eliminate basket interference for YEARS, but so and so voted me DOWN!)

    If you can't handle a question, especially in the way it was asked, then get the hell out of here. He wasn't being accusatory, he in fact said it with a sound of annoyance (As usual, the conspiracy theories are rolling...). Stern completely overreacted.

    And for the record, I can't stand Rome.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    is it really that hard to at least NOT do it behind a locked door?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    What more do you want the NBA to do? Every team has a representative in the room. There are 4 members of the media in the room. It's certified by Ernst & Young as legitimate. And the reason they do it behind closed doors is for TV.

    Here's an article from a media member who was in the room. http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012...draft-lottery/

    As much of a fan I am of his, Bill Simmons is really doing an injustice to fans by continuously bringing up this crap and feeding the mass of idiots who believe it. The NBA should invite him to be in the room and have him write about it.
    Thank you, finally a voice of reason.

    To those who suggest, well you never know it might be fixed. Are you also suggesting a respected company such as Ernst & Young is in on it or at least willing to put their reputation on the line by "looking the other way" Why? what do they possibly have to gain by looking the other way. (how much could the NBA be paying them) They have been certifying this for years, if they felt there was any possibility of it being fixed, they could have just said, no thank you and walked away years ago.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-13-2012 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    What more do you want the NBA to do? Every team has a representative in the room. There are 4 members of the media in the room. It's certified by Ernst & Young as legitimate. And the reason they do it behind closed doors is for TV.

    Here's an article from a media member who was in the room. http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012...draft-lottery/

    As much of a fan I am of his, Bill Simmons is really doing an injustice to fans by continuously bringing up this crap and feeding the mass of idiots who believe it. The NBA should invite him to be in the room and have him write about it.
    You know what would be even better TV? Letting us watch the ping pong balls be drawn live. Just put the team logos/colors on each of them so we can tell right away who won.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    i thought i made it clear. i want them to NOT do it behind closed doors.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    It may be a stupid question, but it is not entirely beyond the pale because a lot of people are thinking the lottery is fixed. Stern's response was ridiculous and will just fuel conspiracy theorists more and more.
    nevermind. Should not have suggested it.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-13-2012 at 03:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    They should just do away with the lottery. Sort of like with kids, if they aren't going to play nice, then fine you aren't going to play at all. Just cancel the whole thing.

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  17. #11
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    I agree with shags.

    The countdown backwards is the reason to watch, waiting for a break in the odds pattern.

    Maybe show the balls and rep reactions after?

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Yeah, David Stern is an asshat

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Are you also suggesting a respected company such as Ernst & Young is in on it or at least willing to put their reputation on the line by "looking the other way" Why? what do they possibly have to gain by looking the other way. (how much could the NBA be paying them) They have been certifying this for years, if they felt there was any possibility of it being fixed, they could have just said, no thank you and walked away years ago.
    Really, though, Ernst & Young is an accounting firm, not a gambling arbitrator. They are only certifying the results (and, at that, only that the results delivered in the envelopes match the results that were obtained in the locked room). They aren't certifying anything at all about the fairness of the method used (there are no Generally Accepted Accounting Practices for Lotteries).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You know what would be even better TV? Letting us watch the ping pong balls be drawn live. Just put the team logos/colors on each of them so we can tell right away who won.
    Referring to the description from a poster during the lottery itself (which I can't be bothered to look up but am still thankful for), the problem is that it can take a LONG time to get any result other than one of the teams whose lottery number has already come up. Pretty boring TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    They should just do away with the lottery. Sort of like with kids, if they aren't going to play nice, then fine you aren't going to play at all. Just cancel the whole thing.
    I would rather have a more deterministic method of setting the draft order that really involves getting the top pick to the worst team rather than making a gambling spectacle out of it. A multi-year moving average with penalties for already having a recent #1 pick would do great in my mind in both preventing tanking (losing over multiple years is much harder than scrapping a single season) and in sending help to the team that needs it.
    Last edited by BillS; 06-13-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    They should just do away with the lottery. Sort of like with kids, if they aren't going to play nice, then fine you aren't going to play at all. Just cancel the whole thing.
    For the record, I do not think the lottery is fixed, and I agree it's silly to think so.

    However it is not "stupid" to ask for transparent business practices. Cheating in pro sports absolutely DOES happen, sometimes on a systemic level. There are good reasons for people to be generally skeptical about what sports leagues tell them. Here are just a few recent sports-related scandals that bring into question the integrity of certain pro sports:

    - Patriots spying on other teams
    - New Orleans Saints paying players to injure players from other teams
    - Tim Donaghy betting on games he officiated, possibly fixing some of them
    - An entire generation of MLB players taking steroids and inflating their numbers

    Organizations lie and cheat, including sports organizations. It's just a fact of life. Cheating is as old as sports, including on the league / institutional level. Yes fans come up with crazy conspiracy theories all the time, the vast majority of which are completely bogus and without merit. But the way to silence these people is not to just call their ideas "stupid" or to be offended at questions - instead you silence them by being TRANSPARENT about your operations.

    Why on earth do they draw the balls in a locked room? So what if the team reps are there - why not just do what Hicks suggested and pick the balls on live TV? It's good enough for Powerball, which is worth millions of dollars. Why doesn't the NBA just do it that way - pick the ball and show everyone the damn ball?

    We are the NBA's customers, you know. I give a lot of my money to the NBA in one form or another every year (league pass, going to games, merchandise, watching ads on broadcasts etc). A little more transparency is not too much to ask when it comes to things like the draft lottery, player suspensions, referee reviews etc. Y'know?

    EDIT: not trying to pick on UB, I understand your point...
    Last edited by rabid; 06-13-2012 at 04:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    - Patriots spying on other teams
    - New Orleans Saints paying players to injure players from other teams
    - Tim Donaghy betting on games he officiated, possibly fixing some of them
    - An entire generation of MLB players taking steroids and inflating their numbers
    more recently Pacquiao-Bradley

  25. #16

    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Mike Greenberg, has the best idea for the lottery, although it will never happen.

    Take all teams out of the playoffs and have a playoff. Winner gets first pick and so on.
    The teams closest get a legit shot to compete while the awful teams stay awful like they have throughout their existence

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    i think all none playoff teams should have the same chance at #1. Each team gets 1 ball. first ball drawn gets lowest pick. last drawn is highest. fun to watch and simple/fair.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Really, though, Ernst & Young is an accounting firm, not a gambling arbitrator. They are only certifying the results (and, at that, only that the results delivered in the envelopes match the results that were obtained in the locked room). They aren't certifying anything at all about the fairness of the method used (there are no Generally Accepted Accounting Practices for Lotteries).

    Referring to the description from a poster during the lottery itself (which I can't be bothered to look up but am still thankful for), the problem is that it can take a LONG time to get any result other than one of the teams whose lottery number has already come up. Pretty boring TV.

    I would rather have a more deterministic method of setting the draft order that really involves getting the top pick to the worst team rather than making a gambling spectacle out of it. A multi-year moving average with penalties for already having a recent #1 pick would do great in my mind in both preventing tanking (losing over multiple years is much harder than scrapping a single season) and in sending help to the team that needs it.

    I'd thank this post a thousand times if I could.

    Arthur Anderson and Co. know a thing or two about not catching scandals.

    For fairness sake I would certainly go for a rolling average over three years. I think it is much more fair. There is no way to do that for TV though. Then the Bulls don't get Rose, the Spurs don't get Duncan, Orlando doesn't get Shaq. And on and on. The Bobcats wouldn't have been guaranteed the top pick that way either, but NO certainly wouldn't have gotten him. In this case, I think NO actually deserved the pick because they were bad and played hard. And their three year average would have really skewed their pick upward. This at least allows for a quicker turnaround.
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    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I think the draft lottery is transparent enough. Like billbradley pointed out earlier, it's significantly worse TV if you show the ping pong ball drawing live. It's bad business to make your product worse for idiots who believe in conspiracy theories (not pointing out anyone in particular).
    There are more ways to do it than with ping pong balls. It's not like the choice has to only be between "ping pong ball machine" and "locked door."

    I'm just saying the NBA could be a lot more transparent about a lot of things, and this is but one example. The way Stern reacted to Jim Rose does not help the problem.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I think the draft lottery is transparent enough.
    I love how you ask "what more do you want the NBA to do" and when it's plainly answered in a well thoughout, completely rational way you come back with this.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Except if the Bobcats (or whoever the worst team is) get the 14th pick. In the first draft lottery, Golden State tied for the worst record but got the 7th pick.
    and? i dont understand your point.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    the NBA does everything in its power to prove that it's not, including inviting media in the room.
    So they don't have the power to televise the process, or you're just being extreme on purpose?


    Calling people idiots, because the disagree with you is a winning strategy.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Well, he's right about the idiots part. Just took a poor route to explain why....

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    billbradley
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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So they don't have the power to televise the process
    The NBA could show the backroom process on NBA TV after the TNT regular lottery program and game.

    I think it would have to be NBA TV because what other station would carry such a boring thing?

    Nobody would watch, but it would satisfy the crazies I think.

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    Default Re: Jim Rome vs David Stern....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Well, he's right about the idiots part. Just took a poor route to explain why....
    Except he hasn't done anything but call people idiots.

    When you say that the NBA has done "everything" in their power to show transparency, when the other side is saying they need to televise the whole thing, your central point has already been shown to be ********.

    When you start arguing that it would be bad for TV ratings, you completely miss the point of what the draft lottery is supposed to do. It's not supposed for TV. What other league televises their draft selections? None? And yet they continue to grow. So whether or not the process is "good TV" doesn't mean squat. The process is to ensure fairness for it's teams, not to provide another form of entertainment for the fans.


    But yeah, other than those two major points, he's right on target.

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