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Thread: Off season Rumors and Speculation

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Can't they just amnesty Perk's contract and then use the remaining 15 million on 9 guys?
    This is what I've been saying forever, just watch OKC give Perkins away for nothing to another team, they would have to be really stupid to choose Perkins over Harden.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This is what I've been saying forever, just watch OKC give Perkins away for nothing to another team, they would have to be really stupid to choose Perkins over Harden.
    Especially with their style of play. Perkins doesn't fit it nearly as much as Harden. Harden fits between Durant and Westbrook really well in terms of skill set. I think Ibaka and Perkins are too bad offensively to get them over the hump. Collison is a perfect Center for that team and they have him on a dirt cheap contract. They have Cole Aldrich, who I actually like, but I just don't understand where he is at in terms of development because I haven't seen him play since Kansas. If you are going to spent $25M on your starting front court there needs to be stability there. I think the Thunder are trying to leverage Harden into a cheaper deal, because he would rather stay with OKC. I still think that the time to trade Harden would be now if they did it. He has so much value around the league and I think he would not look as good in other situations as he does with OKC. I could obviously say that about most players though. If I am OKC I don't know that he is the guy I'd want to break the bank on considering their core is the most electric PG in the league, the best scorer in the league, and a top 3 big man defender in the league whose versatility allows him to play next to just about anyone else in the front court (and no Perkins is not an optimal fit for the money).
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Can't they just amnesty Perk's contract and then use the remaining 15 million on 9 guys?
    $15m for 9 guys isn't a heck of a lot either. Especially when of those guys will have to be paid a starting C's salary. As we saw this summer, big men get paid.

    The problem isn't Perkins. The problem is that the combination of the 4 players (Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka) make too much, that it's difficult to imagine a feasible roster fitting under the tax. Or even the tax + apron.

    Honestly, the real question to me is why OKC chose Ibaka over Harden. Because that's what it's looking like right now. Of course, OKC may be planning to trade Ibaka down the road - that should allow them to keep Harden. Still not easy, but would be a lot more feasible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    EDIT: Wouldn't we have his bird rights?
    A team that trades for Harden will get Bird rights and more importantly RFA rights. So if OKC does trade Harden they will get a nice haul back. No fire sale here.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    If I am OKC I don't know that he is the guy I'd want to break the bank on considering their core is the most electric PG in the league, the best scorer in the league, and a top 3 big man defender in the league whose versatility allows him to play next to just about anyone else in the front court (and no Perkins is not an optimal fit for the money).
    I disagree somewhat on Ibaka. He's very good at what he does (athletic defender/shotblocker) but he's NOT a guy you can play with anyone - his ideal frontcourt partner would be a legit size C with some offense (like Hibbert), as he's not big enough to defend C's and as you pointed out he doesn't have much of an offensive game.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    He just turned 23. Even in the extraordinary unlikely case that he has reached his peak, he'd still be the best player on our team by a country mile.

    Right now, he's Manu Ginobli. Compare their respective third seasons. Also know that Ginobli was 5 years older than Harden at the same point in their careers.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...obma01&y2=2005
    no, he's not manu ginobli. harden is a scorer. but he's not the shooting threat ginobli is. he's not the big moment guy ginobli is. and he doesn't have the court vision/BBIQ. ginobli has whatever magic johnson/larry bird had. That ability to play 5 seconds ahead of everyone else. and ginobli has better skills.

    Harden is a good player, but i just don't agree that he is that special player a max guy is. Playing with Durant and Westbrook gives him looks that he's never gonna get here. He might be the best player here, but so might Paul. or he might not be the best player, he might be just another skilled guy that looks really good playing beside really good players.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    we'll just wait and see i suppose. personally, i think the whole idea of them choosing Ibaka over Harden is a bogus. all their moves so far (locking up Ibaka quickly and at an even cap hit, doing the whole Collison thing, collecting other cheap role players) has been enabling them to keep Harden rather than signaling his exit.

    Re Ibaka as a top 3 defender - i don't think he is. An amazing shot blocker, and huge upside, but still very flawed in other areas (including overall defense). I don't think he's really a 50 mil guy right now in-game. But he should be soon, maybe even this year.

    Re Harden-Manu. Harden in an exceptional pick and roll playmaker. He's not just a scorer. If you compare his playmaking to e.g. Joe Johnson, it's night and day. His playmaking is truly Manu-esque. His biggest flaws right now are on the defensive side. Offensively, he's one of the very best SGs in the league.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I disagree somewhat on Ibaka. He's very good at what he does (athletic defender/shotblocker) but he's NOT a guy you can play with anyone - his ideal frontcourt partner would be a legit size C with some offense (like Hibbert), as he's not big enough to defend C's and as you pointed out he doesn't have much of an offensive game.
    Ibaka is a pretty decent offensive player, he can hit the jumper and can score inside once in a while, if I was OKC I move Perkins and put Collison or Aldrich in his position, Aldrich(at least in Kansas) has a decent back to the basket game and is a bit quicker than Perkins, he can also block shots unlike Perkins.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Ibaka is a pretty decent offensive player, he can hit the jumper and can score inside once in a while, if I was OKC I move Perkins and put Collison or Aldrich in his position, Aldrich(at least in Kansas) has a decent back to the basket game and is a bit quicker than Perkins, he can also block shots unlike Perkins.
    I've always wondered about Aldrich. He was pretty good at KU but hasn't done squat in OKC. With their lack of post points, I'd think that he'd get some run if he had anything resembling an NBA capable back to the basket game.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Any of you seen Aldrich play? he is hot garbage will be out on the league after his rookie deal is up.
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Harden and George together would be awesome. If Pritchard was to ever use that magic of his, he'll find another team to get involved with Granger going out and Harden coming in. And I'm not advocating trading Granger. Just saying Harden and PG together would be awesome.
    Just for fun.

    Charlotte gets Granger and Sefolosha
    OKC gets Kidd-Gilchrist and Henderson
    Indiana gets Harden and Diop.

    Can't see Charlotte doing that.
    Last edited by shags; 09-13-2012 at 09:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Can't they just amnesty Perk's contract and then use the remaining 15 million on 9 guys?
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This is what I've been saying forever, just watch OKC give Perkins away for nothing to another team, they would have to be really stupid to choose Perkins over Harden.
    Again, this is considering that salaries never change. In 2014 here would be the salaries if Harden even gets a contract equal to Ibaka.

    Durant - 20 million
    Westbrook - 15.7 million
    Ibaka - 12.25 million
    Harden - 12.25 million

    That's 60 million in 4 players, and that's even if they amnesty Perkins. Otherwise it's the luxury tax in 5 guys. That's even IF Harden doesn't get a contract that ends up in the 14/15 million range after a couple of years like Marc Gasol's deal. Which I think he could.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Just for fun.

    Charlotte gets Granger and Sefolosha
    OKC gets Kidd-Gilchrist and Henderson
    Indiana gets Harden and Diop.

    Can't see Charlotte doing that.
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Just for fun.

    Charlotte gets Granger and Sefolosha
    OKC gets Kidd-Gilchrist and Henderson
    Indiana gets Harden and Diop.

    Can't see Charlotte doing that.
    Ha! In that scenario, I'd want Kidd-Gilchrist instead of Harden. That's just me though.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    Any of you seen Aldrich play? he is hot garbage will be out on the league after his rookie deal is up.
    Mmmmmmmmmmm, hot garbage.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    no, he's not manu ginobli. harden is a scorer. but he's not the shooting threat ginobli is. he's not the big moment guy ginobli is. and he doesn't have the court vision/BBIQ. ginobli has whatever magic johnson/larry bird had. That ability to play 5 seconds ahead of everyone else. and ginobli has better skills.
    Not the shooter Ginobli is? You're right. Manu is a career .373 shooter from 3. Harden is a paltry .370. They both shoot .835 from the free throw line but that is neither here nor there.

    Ginobli has been in the league for a decade and been playing professionally longer than that. Of course he's got more big time moments than a guy who just turned 23 after his third season.

    Ginobli has brilliant court vision. But there is a reason that Harden is the Thunder's crunch time ball handler. And it's not because he has Granger-esque blinders on.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Not the shooter Ginobli is? You're right. Manu is a career .373 shooter from 3. Harden is a paltry .370. They both shoot .835 from the free throw line but that is neither here nor there.

    Ginobli has been in the league for a decade and been playing professionally longer than that. Of course he's got more big time moments than a guy who just turned 23 after his third season.

    Ginobli has brilliant court vision. But there is a reason that Harden is the Thunder's crunch time ball handler. And it's not because he has Granger-esque blinders on.
    I think what he meant was that Harden basically choked in any big moments during the finals, whereas Manu has always been known to step up and perform within those moments.

    My thing with Harden is, it's hard to tell whether or not he would be able to truly handle being the #1 option offensively on a very good team. Yes he is talented and a good scorer, but when you play with Westbrook and/or Durant at all times, you never have the other teams best defender on you. Though he is a pretty good athlete, most "great" number one scorer's have great athletic gifts (height, explosiveness, length, are a few examples) that allows them to dominate night in and night out. I'm not sure that Harden has those skills.

    As far as the comparison to Manu, Manu has never had to be a number one option on a team and he has probably had a HOF career. If Harden and OKC can win a few championships, he may be able to carve out a career that's very similar.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Uh, Harden had a game in the Finals where he threw up 21 points on 7/11 shooting. How is that choking? If Paul George had done that against Miami he would have been crowned the second coming of Christ on here.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Uh, Harden had a game in the Finals where he threw up 21 points on 7/11 shooting. How is that choking? If Paul George had done that against Miami he would have been crowned the second coming of Christ on here.
    Uh, he also had games of 8, 9, and 5; shot 37% from the field, 32% from 3, blew wide open break away layups, was abused defensively and pretty much had a bad series. >>> That's choking.

    And If PG had done THAT against MIA he would have been the subject of a million trade scenarios on here.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Uh, he also had games of 8, 9, and 5; shot 37% from the field, 32% from 3, blew wide open break away layups, was abused defensively and pretty much had a bad series. >>> That's choking.

    And If PG had done THAT against MIA he would have been the subject of a million trade scenarios on here.
    PG averaged 10 points on .365 shooting in the Miami series.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    PG averaged 10 points on .365 shooting in the Miami series.
    And has been the subject of plenty trade scenarios on PD throughout the summer. It's also been said on here that he won't reach his potential, that he hasn't been working on his game because he threw down a nice dunk in Shanghai with Lebron, and that we should be worried because he said he's going to change his number.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Uh, he also had games of 8, 9, and 5; shot 37% from the field, 32% from 3, blew wide open break away layups, was abused defensively and pretty much had a bad series. >>> That's choking.

    And If PG had done THAT against MIA he would have been the subject of a million trade scenarios on here.
    The Pacers have a player that had similar numbers and was also abused defensively...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers have a player that had similar numbers and was also abused defensively...
    Lol and Danny CHOKED in the series against MIA also.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Lol and Danny CHOKED in the series against MIA also.
    Thanks for admitting that (green)either way I thought the bench was the problem(green)

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Just because Granger was a problem doesn't mean the bench wasn't a problem also.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Just because Granger was a problem doesn't mean the bench wasn't a problem also.
    Yeah i'm not saying he's THE reason we lost, just that he didn't play well in most of the series. Like Joe said, the bench was a major problem also.

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