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Thread: Off season Rumors and Speculation

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Nobody knows but I'm pretty sure they could have done better than they did, getting Scola for free and signing or trading for a quality player would have been better than getting a collection of scrubs to fill the bench and nope the city didn't have anything to do with anything.
    If they COULD have gotten a lot better; why wouldn't they? What do they gain from not trying to improve the team? NOBODY gains from that. NOBODY.

    Just because their ideas of improving the team is different than your ideas, it doesn't mean their wrong or that they didn't improve the team.

    Who could they have signed, that was willing to come here, without overpaying? Okay they didn't get Scola. Well the suns made the winning bid, but I didnt hear about other contenders or too many other teams that made bids on Scola either? Are they all stupid as well?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    It happened because NBA teams get held hostage by players who don't want to play anywhere but New York, or LA, like Howard. There's no free market where all teams can get in to make offers on a level playing field because he can control his destination by saying he won't stay anywhere else longer than he has to. That's how the Lakers got Kobe, and how they now got Howard as well.

    Players want to go there because endorsements are worth more money because they're playing to a larger market in larger cities. Teams in those cities can afford to pay Kobe 30 million, and acquire another max player because they have a big enough city to support 200 million dollar a year deals on their TV deal alone.

    You keep telling yourself it has nothing to do with the city. You keep telling yourself Indianapolis, and Los Angeles are on a level playing field. You're probably the only person who believes that.
    It's all in the facts. How many Major FA's (superstars) have signed with a small-market team within the last 10 years?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    It happened because NBA teams get held hostage by players who don't want to play anywhere but New York, or LA, like Howard. There's no free market where all teams can get in to make offers on a level playing field because he can control his destination by saying he won't stay anywhere else longer than he has to. That's how the Lakers got Kobe, and how they now got Howard as well.

    Players want to go there because endorsements are worth more money because they're playing to a larger market in larger cities. Teams in those cities can afford to pay Kobe 30 million, and acquire another max player because they have a big enough city to support 200 million dollar a year deals on their TV deal alone.

    You keep telling yourself it has nothing to do with the city. You keep telling yourself Indianapolis, and Los Angeles are on a level playing field. You're probably the only person who believes that.
    The city has something to do with players wanting to go there but I don't think is as big of an issue as you might think, to me it has to do more with the front office than anything else, no players wanted to go the the Clippers before, hell even Brand Turned down the Clippers for Philly, where is the hot weather again?

    Players love to go to the Lakers because the Lakers do whatever is possible to win a title, they don't sit in their hands happy to be a second round playoffs team, they always try to improve the team to win a championship, that's the huge difference and players know that.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    If they COULD have gotten a lot better; why wouldn't they? What do they gain from not trying to improve the team? NOBODY gains from that. NOBODY.

    Just because their ideas of improving the team is different than your ideas, it doesn't mean their wrong or that they didn't improve the team.

    Who could they have signed, that was willing to come here, without overpaying? Okay they didn't get Scola. Well the suns made the winning bid, but I didnt hear about other contenders or too many other teams that made bids on Scola either? Are they all stupid as well?
    Contenders are not under the cap.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    It's all in the facts. How many Major FA's (superstars) have signed with a small-market team within the last 10 years?
    Howard is not signing with LA as a free agent he is getting traded there, other teams can do trades too.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The city has something to do with players wanting to go there
    This fact leads to this ability ....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Players love to go to the Lakers because the Lakers do whatever is possible to win a title
    When you're constantly on the short list of 2 to 4 locations where the best players want to go, you have to be Isiah Thomas to **** that up. It has nothing to do with being smart, you just have to avoid being a complete moron and it's hard to fail.

    Even by your own words, being in LA is the biggest part of their success, but somehow you're not connecting the dots.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Howard is not signing with LA as a free agent he is getting traded there, other teams can do trades too.
    However, nobody is going to offer what a New York or LA team can offer, because he won't stay there. So, just because you can make a trade, doesn't mean it's smart unless you're one of those teams. That's the point.
    Last edited by xBulletproof; 08-10-2012 at 10:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    This fact leads to this ability ....



    When you're constantly on the short list of 2 to 4 locations where the best players want to go, you have to be Isiah Thomas to **** that up. It has nothing to do with being smart, you just have to avoid being a complete moron and it's hard to fail.

    Even by your own words, being in LA is the biggest part of their success, but somehow you're not connecting the dots.
    The Clippers are also in LA how many championships they have? how many championships New York has? nothing to do with been smart? I guess that turning KB into Gasol and Bynum into Howard has nothing to do with been smart .....

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Howard is not signing with LA as a free agent he is getting traded there, other teams can do trades too.
    But the superstar still has to WANT to be there. Why would a team trade most of the talented players on their roster to acquire a superstar that is going to end up leaving once their contract is up?

    Don't get me wrong, I have ZERO problems with superstars wanting to play in only certain destinations. When you're the best at what you do, you get those types of perks. I don't think it hurts the NBA in any way. But it doesn't change the fact that most superstars WANT to play in only certain places.

    There has to be a reason why most small market teams don't have a superstar unless they draft for one; it's not a coincidence.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    But the superstar still has to WANT to be there. Why would a team trade most of the talented players on their roster to acquire a superstar that is going to end up leaving once their contract is up?

    Don't get me wrong, I have ZERO problems with superstars wanting to play in only certain destinations. When you're the best at what you do, you get those types of perks. I don't think it hurts the NBA in any way. But it doesn't change the fact that most superstars WANT to play in only certain places.

    There has to be a reason why most small market teams don't have a superstar unless they draft for one; it's not a coincidence.
    Superstars wants to be with the Lakers, Celtics, Miami etc because they feel they have a chance to win a championship every year, remember the year Lebron, Dwade, Bosh and all those players were free agents? remember what Chicago got? yeah they ended up with Boozer, why? because is known around the NBA that Chicago's owner is not willing to spend to get to a championship, they are a big market right? same thing used to happen to the Clippers, New Jersey and now is happening to Houston and Dallas.

    edit: And the reason why "small market teams" don't have superstars it's because those teams have not been smart, look at what Cleveland did with Lebron there, look at what Orlando did with Howard there.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 08-10-2012 at 10:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Clippers are also in LA how many championships they have? how many championships New York has? nothing to do with been smart? I guess that turning KB into Gasol and Bynum into Howard has nothing to do with been smart .....
    The Clippers have had the cheapest owner in the history of sports. I guess I should have said unless you're Donald Sterling cheap, or Isiah Thomas dumb you'll have a hard time failing. Sterling just now put money into the team, and look what happened? They started winning. Yet they also benefited from being in LA to get where they are today. Chris Paul, anyone?

    Who wouldn't turn Kwame into Gasol and Bynum into Howard if given the choice? That's not smart, that's obvious. You don't have to be smart to make that move. Yet those deals were only available BECAUSE THE PLAYERS WANTED TO GO THERE. Even if the Pacers had a player equal to Bynum we could have offered the Magic for Howard, you can't do it because Howard would threaten to be gone in 1 year and you traded what was obviously a very good player for a 1 year rental. Which takes an obviously good decision for LA and turns it into a stupid one for Indiana. Again, not a level playing field and because of the city of destination.

    If you can't see that, it's only because you don't want to.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Superstars wants to be with the Lakers, Celtics, Miami etc because they feel they have a chance to win a championship every year, remember the year Lebron, Dwade, Bosh and all those players were free agents? remember what Chicago got? yeah they ended up with Boozer, why? because is known around the NBA that Chicago's owner is not willing to spend to get to a championship, they are a big market right? same thing used to happen to the Clippers, New Jersey and now is happening to Houston and Dallas.

    edit: And the reason why "small market teams" don't have superstars it's because those teams have not been smart, look at what Cleveland did with Lebron there, look at what Orlando did with Howard there.
    Minnesota with KG, Phoenix with Nash, NO with Paul, etc etc....the list goes on.

    But it's not a case that all small market teams are dumb, and bigger market teams are smart.

    I think you're confusing "smart" with a willingness to pay whatever they need to in order to win. You're right, a lot of these owners aren't willing to spend top dollar to improve their teams like the Lakers, the Celtics, and now the Heat. But a lot of owners cant take that risk. But that doesn't mean these owners aren't smart. They're obviously smart, or else they wouldn't be billionaires. BUT you best believe an owner within a bigger market is able to take a risk of overpaying for a championship a lot more than the owner of a small market team.

    To be honest, if you look at the history of the NBA it's mainly been the Lakers, the Celtics, the Bulls in their heyday, and then a handful of teams that have won multiple championships (76ers, Hou, SA, POR, MIA) and that's pretty much it lol.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    There typically are 4 key ingredients to winning a title in the NBA:

    1) Smart front office
    2) Spending lots of money
    3) Destination City
    4) Luck

    1) A smart front office is obviously the most important. That's why teams like the Knicks have failed despite scoring very well on criteria 2 and 3. But finding good basketball players is not reinventing the wheel, and there are several great front offices out there. To differentiate between these smart front offices, we go to criteria number 2:

    2) Spending lots of money is very important in the NBA. But few teams do it. That's because half the teams in the NBA don't have the sort of revenues to support spending that type of money, and some of the ones who do have that kind of revenue are just cheap (Bulls, Clippers). The teams who are fortunate enough to both have money and be willing to spend it? They have lots of flexibility. Basically this is the Lakers and Knicks, teams who have tons of revenue who are willing to throw it around. The Lakers have also had a smart front office while the Knicks haven't.

    3) Destination city. Miami for example isn't a team who is willing to throw tons of money around (they are trying to save money to accommodate their roster right now), but they are a destination city with some money. The Lakers, Knicks, and Nets win in this category as well. Even if some crazy owner bought a team like Milwaukee and started throwing 100 million a year at their roster, stars typically will choose the Lakers 100 million roster first.

    4) Luck. This accounts for things like the Bulls getting Rose, SA getting Duncan, etc. Teams luck into getting that star, and then they use good front offices to build around them even though they may not have the most money or the best destination city.

    So when people say that teams like the Lakers have an advantage, they aren't dismissing the fact that they also have a good front office. They are just saying that the Lakers have the best of both worlds: they have the revenue to support whatever payroll they want, they are willing to spend that money, they are a destination city, and they have a good front office.

    The Pacers can't match things like that. They couldn't support the Lakers payroll for very long at all (it would bankrupt the Simons pretty quickly). They aren't a destination city. So even with a good front office, they need a healthy dose of luck to get past the Lakers who have it all in spades.

    The Howard trade is a great example of the Lakers using their inherent advantages to the fullest effect. Good for them, but it doesn't necessarily show a greater desire to win than all the other teams. It shows them smartly using all the resources they have available, which happen to be more resources than just about any other team.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    -insert Colts reference here-


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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    I wish there's a way to automatically thank every post by Cubs231721. He doesn't post much but it's always worth reading.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Mike Eric signed with the Cavs I liked him quite a bit at Temple. He is all defense NBA frame he made Andrew Nicholson look silly when i watched the 2 square off in college could be the next Joel Anthony slash Kendrick Perkins.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 08-10-2012 at 04:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Jodie Meeks signs with Lakers for 2 years/3 million. Pretty cheap contract.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Orlando has over 2 million people in it and is less than an hour and half away, either direction, from beaches....including this year's #1 Spring Break location, St Pete Beach (also only 1 hour away from World famous Daytona Beach). The Tampa Bay area, again about 1 hour and 20 minutes from Orlando, has over 4 million people there. I don't see how Orlando is considered a "small market" team. Maybe the Magic should move to the Bay.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    Orlando has over 2 million people in it and is less than an hour and half away, either direction, from beaches....including this year's #1 Spring Break location, St Pete Beach (also only 1 hour away from World famous Daytona Beach). The Tampa Bay area, again about 1 hour and 20 minutes from Orlando, has over 4 million people there. I don't see how Orlando is considered a "small market" team. Maybe the Magic should move to the Bay.
    They should sell im not even joking Nobody ever wants to play in Orlando they all leave as soon as there contracts are up its just such an irrelevant franchise

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    They should sell im not even joking Nobody ever wants to play in Orlando they all leave as soon as there contracts are up its just such an irrelevant franchise
    And that is because their front office sucks not because of the weather or anything like that.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    too say the city doesn't play a reason into LAs success is incredibly naive. and citing the clippers to prove your point is incredibly short sighted. The Lakers OWN Los Angeles. Its like saying the Yankees playing in NYC doesn't go towards their success because look at the Mets! The revenue the Lakers and Yankees are able to generate from their cities is just undeniable. The Lakers, by far, have the most lucrative television contract. The Pacers cannot compete with that due to location alone. Just like the Reds can't compete with the Yankees in that way.

    So when the Lakers are in the Luxury Tax from 4 players alone, it just doesn't matter, because while the Pacers are run more lean, with a damn good team to boot, they still aren't able to make money. Yet the Lakers have a payroll, after factoring in Luxury Tax, is double of what the Pacers, and they still make boatloads of money. This is not possible in Indiana or Sacramento.

    The Pacers can't spend money like LA. No matter what they do.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Thank Christ Craig Smith signed overseas

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Jonathan Feigan: Rockets have come to an agreement with guard Carlos Delfino on a one-year deal, with team option on 2nd season, per source. Twitter
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Hard to believe that Kenyon Martin and Tracy McGrady aren't getting any love, as well as some other players. They have to be better option than what some teams have on their bench.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Hard to believe that Kenyon Martin and Tracy McGrady aren't getting any love, as well as some other players. They have to be better option than what some teams have on their bench.
    I think McGrady is washed up..... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Jonathan Feigan: Rockets have come to an agreement with guard Carlos Delfino on a one-year deal, with team option on 2nd season, per source. Twitter
    that gives Houston what, like 35 guys?

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