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Thread: Off season Rumors and Speculation

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    Eh, not huge on Fournier. Granted Ive only seen him play in games twice, but he always just seemed mediocre. Yes he was always one of the top players, but his opponents were awful and many of his plays were turnovers at the NBA level.
    French league isnt even close to high level college from what I have read. (never watched it outside of the 50min tape posted on youtube though)


    EDIT: I doubt it's a ploy to get someone to trade up Fournier will be gone before #26 I dont see any way he is still on the board.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-21-2012 at 04:44 PM.

  2. #377

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    As much as I was disappointed I think some here are really underestamating DC's abilities. As much as I dont love his play he , to me, is still a more pure point guard than George Hill. I also doubt any rookie PG could come in and do better in his rookie and even sophmore year than DC

    Yes he has flaws and all but I see G Hill as either a starting or back up SG
    QFT

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  4. #378
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    Could be a ploy to get someone to trade up ahead of us to take Fournier. That would cause someone else to fall to our pick.

    Right now, Fournier is going 28th in chad fords mock.

    Chad Ford:
    Fournier is the type of player that the Thunder can easily stash for a year or two in Europe. Or, given the high level he has played at in France, he might be able to come in and get minutes for them right away -- especially if the Thunder decide they can't afford to re-sign James Harden this summer.

    Would be nice if we could work out a deal to get Harden and draft Fourier for them too. just a thought
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorge View Post
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    Right now, Fournier is going 28th in chad fords mock.

    Chad Ford:
    Fournier is the type of player that the Thunder can easily stash for a year or two in Europe. Or, given the high level he has played at in France, he might be able to come in and get minutes for them right away -- especially if the Thunder decide they can't afford to re-sign James Harden this summer.

    Would be nice if we could work out a deal to get Harden and draft Fourier for them too. just a thought
    Why would you want Harden? He has played terribly against the Heat in the series........

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    French league isnt even close to high level college from what I have read. (never watched it outside of the 50min tape posted on youtube though)


    EDIT: I doubt it's a ploy to get someone to trade up Fournier will be gone before #26 I dont see any way he is still on the board.
    remember Thomas Heurtel?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    remember Thomas Heurtel?
    I liked Heurtel, he had good game, but he just needed some work way too wild at times, but potential was there.
    Why so SERIOUS

  8. #382

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Why would you want Harden? He has played terribly against the Heat in the series........
    Not sure if serious.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Doddage View Post
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    Not sure if serious.
    I am serious and the commentators have spoken about it. He may be the main reason the Thunder is losing this series. He has had one good game and the rest are way below what he did during the season. I'm sure guarding James has something to do with this but he doesn't guard him all of the time.......

  10. #384

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I am serious and the commentators have spoken about it. He may be the main reason the Thunder is losing this series. He has had one good game and the rest are way below what he did during the season. I'm sure guarding James has something to do with this but he doesn't guard him all of the time.......
    Yeah, but using that as a basis for questioning why someone would want Harden on the Pacers? There's no way we wouldn't instantly become a better team with Harden.

  11. #385
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jrod Jones View Post
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    It also puts us in position to capitalize on someone unexpected dropping out of the top 10 (I feel like there's always someone).
    Good idea only if we trade before the draft. If it's a trade during the draft teams wait and see if their guy is there before they trade. So if someone would drop unexpectedly, it's likely the team we were trading with would cancel the trade and grab him unless it was for a position they were already strong at.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I am serious and the commentators have spoken about it. He may be the main reason the Thunder is losing this series. He has had one good game and the rest are way below what he did during the season. I'm sure guarding James has something to do with this but he doesn't guard him all of the time.......
    LeBron had a terrible (by his standards) Finals last year against the Mavs, should we not want him too?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    LeBron had a terrible (by his standards) Finals last year against the Mavs, should we not want him too?
    Good point as long as you use (by his standards) but Harden is having a terrible series by just about anyone's standards. But you are all correct that he would make the Pacers better but he isn't available so why are we going there?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Harden's been playing with an injured hand too, I believe. But either way, one series does not a player make (or break).

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Good point as long as you use (by his standards) but Harden is having a terrible series by just about anyone's standards. But you are all correct that he would make the Pacers better but he isn't available so why are we going there?
    Not Available? Those 2 words don't exsist in the nba. Anyone and everyone is moveable for the right price or pieces. Harden isn't going to give OKC a discount to sign him for the foreseeable future. I think you are judging this kid a lil too hard. He is only 22 and comes off the bench for a very good team. Coming off the bench in my eyes is harder than starting the game because every starter on the court knows the feel of the game. When you come off the bench you have been sitting around for a good 15min(tv timeouts, introductions, ect) Then you are expected to make an immediate impact when you enter the game. That can be overwhelming especially in the Finals against the Heat and you are 22.
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    @chadfordinsider: More on Royce White. Now hearing more definitely promise is from Celtics at 21.

    Damn i was hoping we had a chance at this guy

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    @chadfordinsider: More on Royce White. Now hearing more definitely promise is from Celtics at 21.

    Damn i was hoping we had a chance at this guy
    Great job by Boston if they land him. Talk about fitting Doc's system perfectly Royce does just that. I had concerns about Royce but if he goes into Doc's system that negates a lot of my concerns because Celtic style of play is perfect for him.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    @chadfordinsider: More on Royce White. Now hearing more definitely promise is from Celtics at 21.

    Damn i was hoping we had a chance at this guy
    Yeah, Royce is still a player I very much want.

    Royce and either Marquis Teaque or Tony Wroten could be a good draft for us. Nicholson could be another option.

    With teams going small in the playoffs, I don't think having a slow footed backup C is ideal, so I don't want Fab. We need an athletic PF/C.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Yeah, Royce is still a player I very much want.

    Royce and either Marquis Teaque or Tony Wroten could be a good draft for us. Nicholson could be another option.

    With teams going small in the playoffs, I don't think having a slow footed backup C is ideal, so I don't want Fab. We need an athletic PF/C.
    so you dont want Melo who is athletic and very quick for his size but you want Nicholson who is not athletic who actually moves a lot like Troy Murphy actually I would say Murph moves better on D (yes Nicholsons defense was awful at the college level at the NBA level it will be really hard to hide

    because you want an athletic guy??


    Nicholson is about as slow footed as Perkins.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    so you dont want Melo who is athletic and very quick for his size but you want Nicholson who is not athletic who actually moves a lot like Troy Murphy actually I would say Murph moves better on D (yes Nicholsons defense was awful at the college level at the NBA level it will be really hard to hide

    because you want an athletic guy??


    Nicholson is about as slow footed as Perkins.
    I can only go by what I read. DraftExpress says Nicholson is fluid and mobile. Fab maybe faster than Hibbs, but he just looks awkward and slow footed. Maybe he's deceptive that way, but I don't care for Melo much.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I can only go by what I read. DraftExpress says Nicholson is fluid and mobile. Fab maybe faster than Hibbs, but he just looks awkward and slow footed. Maybe he's deceptive that way, but I don't care for Melo much.
    When I watch tape of Nicholson he looks awful moving on defense. You should watch some games of the guy before you call him athletic and perfect as a bu 4/5 he isn't any in form of the word athletic. Troy Murphy is probably a good comp for Nick IMO solid on offense but a black hole and lacks a motor and the ability to defend.


    he is mobile (different than athletic IMO) and can play both the 4 and the 5 but IMO Troy Murphy level of defense(nick can block shots though but overall defense wont be that good IMO) is what you will get and similar on offense JMO. Solid role player but I dont really want or like that kind of player on my team.

    I dont want Fab Melo but what you are saying about the 2 are inaccurate IMO.

  22. #396
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    And the offseason begins. What is the date of the draft and the date that free agency starts?

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    And the offseason begins. What is the date of the draft and the date that free agency starts?
    Thursday is the draft and july 1st at mid night for free agency and summer league is right after free agency.

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  25. #398
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Ford Draft Tiers are out, always one of my favorite articles, let you get an idea of who you may have a shot at, imo. Anyone care to share?

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...prospects-tier

  26. #399

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Ford Draft Tiers are out, always one of my favorite articles, let you get an idea of who you may have a shot at, imo. Anyone care to share?

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...prospects-tier
    K.

    By Chad Ford

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...prospects-tier

    Every time I put up a new mock draft (Mock Draft 8.2 was updated on Thursday), I get a lot of feedback from readers who wonder how I put it together and how it differs from the Top 100.

    This is how it works: Both pieces are reported. In other words, I talk with NBA scouts and executives to get a sense of:

    A. Which teams like which players (mock draft).

    B. What the consensus is among all 30 NBA teams about who the best players in the draft are (Top 100).

    I use the word "consensus" lightly. Often, even GMs and scouts employed by the same team can't agree on rankings of players. As hard as it is for NBA draftniks to believe, there is very little consensus within teams, let alone between them, on draft night.

    Obviously, the draft is an inexact science. NBA teams watch prospects play thousands of hours of games. They go to practice. They go to camps. They work out players, give them psychological tests, do background checks and conduct personal interviews. All of this factors into the process and can change opinions.

    Factor in the ranking wars with another age-old debate -- do you draft for need or for the best player available? -- and it's no surprise the draft can be so volatile. Many teams take into account holes at certain positions (i.e., the team has no small forward) or coaching/system preferences (i.e., the Spurs draft players who can fit into coach Gregg Popovich's system) when making their decisions.

    To make sense of disparate rankings and debates over team needs, the past few years I've chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams that have been very successful in the draft, what I call a tier system. Instead of developing an exact order from one to 60 of the best players in the draft, these teams group players, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then, the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need.

    This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available, but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.

    So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, I put together these tiers. (Because the teams do not want to divulge their draft rankings publicly, the teams will remain anonymous.)


    (Note: Players are listed alphabetically in each tier.)

    Tier 1
    Anthony Davis
    Note: This category is usually reserved for guys who are sure-fire All-Stars/franchise players. Last year, we didn't have anyone here. In 2010, John Wall was the only guy in this tier. In 2009, Blake Griffin was the only one. This year Davis is the only player in the draft to get the nod.

    Tier 2
    Harrison Barnes
    Bradley Beal
    Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
    Thomas Robinson
    Note: Tier 2 is reserved for players who are likely locks for the top half of the lottery and are projected as either very good starters or potential All-Stars by scouts. Robinson, Beal and Kidd-Gilchrist got the nod for Tier 2 from every GM I spoke with. Barnes, who has been rising on draft boards the past few weeks after some stellar athletic testing numbers at the NBA combine, was on 75 percent of the lists.

    Tier 3
    Andre Drummond
    Damian Lillard
    Dion Waiters
    Note: This is a smaller than usual Tier 3. These are the only three players (outside of the five mentioned already) that were consensus top-10 picks among the GMs I spoke with. Of the group, Drummond and Lillard had every vote. Waiters was on most of the ballots. Drummond is the toughest guy to peg. One team has him No. 2 on their draft board. Others are much more nervous about him and see a high bust potential. He barely missed the Tier 2 cut. Interestingly, a few teams had Waiters in Tier 2, while a few teams had him in Tier 4. That's a pretty big spread.


    Mark Dolejs/US Presswire
    Teams disagree on where Austin Rivers should be taken in the draft.
    Tier 4
    John Henson
    Perry Jones III
    Terrence Jones
    Jeremy Lamb
    Meyers Leonard
    Kendall Marshall
    Austin Rivers
    Terrence Ross
    Jared Sullinger
    Tyler Zeller
    Note: After Tier 3, it's very difficult to find a real consensus here. There are 10 players here for a total of five spots left in the lottery. A few players, like Jeremy Lamb and Austin Rivers, got a few votes in Tier 3. A few others, like Kendall Marshall, got some Tier 5 votes. But in general, this group makes up the 10-20 range of the draft. (We should note that I received some of these responses before GMs had a chance to review Sullinger's physical. He is in Tier 5 on some teams' boards now.)

    Tier 5
    Moe Harkless
    Fab Melo
    Quincy Miller
    Arnett Moultrie
    Andrew Nicholson
    Marquis Teague
    Royce White
    Tony Wroten Jr.
    Note: This next group looks like locks for the first round, but most likely won't make the lottery. A few teams had Harkless, Melo and Moultrie in Tier 4, but not quite enough for them to make the cut. Wroten and Miller were borderline picks here. Both players dropped out of the top 30 on at least one NBA team's draft board.

    Tier 6
    Furkan Aldemir
    Will Barton
    Jared Cunningham
    Festus Ezeli
    Evan Fournier
    Draymond Green
    John Jenkins
    Orlando Johnson
    Doron Lamb
    Kyle O'Quinn
    Kostas Papanikolaou
    Miles Plumlee
    Jeff Taylor
    Tyshawn Taylor
    Note: This is what I would call the first-round bubble group and where the consensus really started to break down. A few teams had Fournier, Green, Jeff Taylor and Barton in Tier 5, but many did not. Overall there are just four spaces left in the first round ... so most of the players on this list are falling to the second round.

    So how does the tier system work?

    A team ranks players in each tier according to team need. So, in Tier 3, if shooting guard is the biggest need, a player like Rivers or Ross is ranked No. 1. If center is the biggest need, Leonard or Zeller is ranked No. 1.

    The rules are pretty simple. You always draft the highest-ranked player in a given tier. Also, you never take a player from a lower tier if one from a higher tier is available. So, for example, if the Pistons are drafting No. 9 (Tier 3 territory) and Damian Lillard (a Tier 3 player) is on the board, they take him regardless of positional need. If they have Meyers Leonard ranked No. 1 in Tier 4, they still take Lillard even though center is a more pressing need.

    This system protects teams from overreaching based on team need. The Pistons won't pass on a clearly superior player like Waiters to fill a need with Perry Jones. However, the system also protects a team from passing on a player who fits a need just because he might be ranked one or two spots lower overall.

    The Pistons actually followed this model last year at the draft. While the consensus was they needed a big, when Brandon Knight, who they had ranked in a higher tier fell, they took him anyway.

    My all-time favorite historical example is from the Atlanta Hawks. GM Billy Knight took Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul and Deron Williams in 2005, and Shelden Williams ahead of a guards such as Brandon Roy and Rajon Rondo in 2006 because of positional needs.

    Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect. But the teams that run it have found success with it. It has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

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  28. #400

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Tiers 1-5 have 26 players listed by my count, so we're guaranteed a shot at one of them.

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