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Thread: Off season Rumors and Speculation

  1. #3651
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    I dont feel like we lost Ray, Ainge continued. I feel like Ray left us to go to Miami. We appreciate all that Rays done and all that him and (his wife) Shannon have done in our community. And we tried to get Ray back and he chose to go to Miami. Palm Beach Post



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    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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  3. #3652
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Not for me... Its a combination of more than just a medicore off season and to right it off with some sweeping notion that not landing a top 3 FA is why certian people are down on the Pacers sort of disrespects their intellgince/experience.

    THe main sticking point for me is that we don't have enough to beat the Heat and we are not making moves to atleast entertain the notion of beating them.

    Miles Plumlee for all the hoopla of "he can come in now and contribute" doesn't add up with the addition of Ian for 4 million a year for 4 years. If you going to sell me a hill of beans atleast stay consistent with the message or I'll call you on it. Does that make sense?

    Also consider that we got David West last year for a decent amount and I would consider that a success. This year we added to the bench because we see that as a way to compete with the Heat and really I don't see the logic in that.

    I see the bench as important but I also see the starting 5 as more important as a whole. The starting 5 was good but wasn't great in the playoffs and suspect that we won't be facing teams without one of their important players for the majority of the series.

    I really do like the team as a whole but I don't believe this starting five is good enough and those are the type of moves I would like to see either through FA's or by drafting.
    I agree with you all up and down the line. A move on the level of the signing of David West is what I was hoping for. Someone who could come in and take a starting role from the get-go. Now THAT is improvement. I like our guys, but they are not a group that will compete for a title.

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  5. #3653
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yeah while others had to hear about drafting Hal Wilmont, Marcus Kil?, DJ White, or any other IU wannabe NBA player. How's Kurt Halston and B Wright doing these days? You want me to go back even further and pull up some more IU players who couldn't make it in the NBA? Damon Bailey, Downing, Lakowski?, Steve Green, Tarpley, Keith Smart, and AJ whoever from Marion just to name some. Oh lets not forget Steve Alford and all the IU fans clamouring that the Pacers needed to draft him either. Should I ask how that worked out?

    I notice you didn't mention how DJ White is really tearing up the NBA as he is on what his 3rd team? He can't even get much PT on the "NBA's worst team... Charlotte." That's right the NBA's worst team.

    Sometimes it's just best to let a sleeping dog lie.
    Better watch that kind of talk or Slick will send Big Mac to track you down.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yeah while others had to hear about drafting Hal Wilmont, Marcus Kil?, DJ White, or any other IU wannabe NBA player. How's Kurt Halston and B Wright doing these days? You want me to go back even further and pull up some more IU players who couldn't make it in the NBA? Damon Bailey, Downing, Lakowski?, Steve Green, Tarpley, Keith Smart, and AJ whoever from Marion just to name some. Oh lets not forget Steve Alford and all the IU fans clamouring that the Pacers needed to draft him either. Should I ask how that worked out?

    I notice you didn't mention how DJ White is really tearing up the NBA as he is on what his 3rd team? He can't even get much PT on the "NBA's worst team... Charlotte." That's right the NBA's worst team.

    Sometimes it's just best to let a sleeping dog lie.
    Roy Tarpley never played for IU.......

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Roy Tarpley never played for IU.......
    ....and Tarpley was one of the biggest wastes of talent ever. HOF talent with a career ruined by nose candy.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt
    Phoenix Suns are awarded ex-Rockets forward Luis Scola, per league sources. Houston used amnesty clause on Scola Friday.

    lol, Dragic/(Mayo?)/Beasley/Scola/Gortat, pretty decent group. They were aggressive!
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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  11. #3657

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Roy Tarpley never played for IU.......


    Duh, Ray Tolbert! Senior citizen moment. At least, I got the initials right.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Duh, Ray Tolbert! Senior citizen moment. At least, I got the initials right.
    Oh, Lazkowski would have liked a little better spelling but we got the idea. Isn't it amazing the job Bobby Knight did with those teams build around Hoosier high School players? He didn't have five first round NBA picks on his teams like Kentucky seems to do routinely.... I remember when Knight wouldn't recruit the Big Dog because he was sure he would jump to the pros as soon as he could. I love Bobby Knight but I don't think the current mess that is NCAA sports would have been for him.......

  13. #3659
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Marc Stein: The NBA's 30 teams have just been notified that Phoenix has won waiver auction for Luis Scola Twitter

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    It was not even possible for us to put in a bid.

    We could not have made a claim without releasing the rights to our draft picks, trading Barbosa, Hansbrough, and probably even David West away for nothing to teams under the cap (teams who would have to be paid handsomely to take them, except for West), for a guy who is already 32 and probably not as good as West at anything other than jump shooting
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    lol, Dragic/(Mayo?)/Beasley/Scola/Gortat, pretty decent group. They were aggressive!
    That's quite a hodge podge of new talent to add to Gortat. People complain about the Pacers 3 year plan. I get the feeling the Suns didn't have a plan at all.

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  17. #3662
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    It was not even possible for us to put in a bid.

    We could not have made a claim without releasing the rights to our draft picks, trading Barbosa, Hansbrough, and probably even David West away for nothing to teams under the cap (teams who would have to be paid handsomely to take them, except for West), for a guy who is already 32 and probably not as good as West at anything other than jump shooting
    Actually, all we had to do was delay the signings of Hibbert and Hill til today. The prudent thing wouldve been to delay them til around the 18th since the front office has known all along that amnesty releases would take place July 11-17. With them having capspace it was simply irresponsible to not consider and plan appropriately for the possibility of signing some available talent at pennies on the dollar. Especially when we consider that we were forced to overpay for Hibbert and chose to overpay for Hill. Having Scola or even Brand at such a reduced rate wouldve definitely helped the overall payroll and offset those overpays.

    Major, major fail on Walsh and company. Its not like they didnt know this was a possibility.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Actually, all we had to do was delay the signings of Hibbert and Hill til today. The prudent thing wouldve been to delay them til around the 18th since the front office has known all along that amnesty releases would take place July 11-17. With them having capspace it was simply irresponsible to not consider and plan appropriately for the possibility of signing some available talent at pennies on the dollar. Especially when we consider that we were forced to overpay for Hibbert and chose to overpay for Hill. Having Scola or even Brand at such a reduced rate wouldve definitely helped the overall payroll and offset those overpays.

    Major, major fail on Walsh and company. Its not like they didnt know this was a possibility.
    This I completely agree with. It's just managing the business side which is their jobs and they did a poor job managing in this case.
    I'd hope that Hibbert and Hill would want to have the best team possible to play with and would have been understanding that waiting a few days might really help the team. It's not like they'd be losing any money

  20. #3664

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt
    Phoenix Suns are awarded ex-Rockets forward Luis Scola, per league sources. Houston used amnesty clause on Scola Friday.

    lol, Dragic/(Mayo?)/Beasley/Scola/Gortat, pretty decent group. They were aggressive!
    The rest of their roster isn't bad either: Marshall, Telfair, Shannon Brown, Dudley, Morris, Lopez. They're gonna score 108 and give up 114 per game, but they'll be entertaining to watch.

  21. #3665
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    I really think the Pacers need to watch some of these 2nd round picks and see if they don't make squads.

    I wonder if Jae Crowder has a chance to not make the team for the Dallas Mavs. Love to scoop that guy up!
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I really think the Pacers need to watch some of these 2nd round picks and see if they don't make squads.

    I wonder if Jae Crowder has a chance to not make the team for the Dallas Mavs. Love to scoop that guy up!
    I think we are 100 Percent finished id be very surprised if Donnie and KP add anyone.

  23. #3667
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    That's quite a hodge podge of new talent to add to Gortat. People complain about the Pacers 3 year plan. I get the feeling the Suns didn't have a plan at all.
    heh. at least it's better than letting Amare go and spending all that money and more on Turkoglu, Warrick and Josh Childress.

    Honestly, if they didn't have Steve Nash carrying them the last two years, I have to think the Suns would be considered one of the worst organizations in the league.

    Maybe they have some positives, like the medical staff, and they did get Gortat, but the front office decisions in general... uhh...
    David Khan would be a serious upgrade there.

  24. #3668
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Any confirmation on Barbosa?

  25. #3669

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    On the Lin situation,

    Personally I think these "poison pill" type contracts are not in the best interests of the game, if they call for the matching team to pay a different amount or different payment schedule than would the offering team.

    The whole point in "matching" an offer is to give what somebody else said they would give, after all. Clauses giving contract clauses/ accelerations for things like "not playing at least X number of games in the state of Texas" are smart for the offering team, but not really in the spirit of the free agency. The NFL shot down these types of offers as not approvable, but I am not sure if Stern and the NBA have as much leeway given the stronger NBA players union.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Clauses giving contract clauses/ accelerations for things like "not playing at least X number of games in the state of Texas" are smart for the offering team, but not really in the spirit of the free agency. The NFL shot down these types of offers as not approvable,
    can you clarify here? what would that clause look like in full? is this an NFL thing?

  27. #3671

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Actually, all we had to do was delay the signings of Hibbert and Hill til today. The prudent thing wouldve been to delay them til around the 18th since the front office has known all along that amnesty releases would take place July 11-17. With them having capspace it was simply irresponsible to not consider and plan appropriately for the possibility of signing some available talent at pennies on the dollar. Especially when we consider that we were forced to overpay for Hibbert and chose to overpay for Hill. Having Scola or even Brand at such a reduced rate wouldve definitely helped the overall payroll and offset those overpays.

    Major, major fail on Walsh and company. Its not like they didnt know this was a possibility.


    I'm going to play devil's advocate for Walsh, and that isn't an easy task for me to do.

    We all have known for years ownership wouldn't go into LT Land. Maybe Simon put a limit on how much the FO could spend salary wise. Thus the reason why Walsh didn't bid on amnestied players, b/c it would go over Simon's limit whatever that limit is.

    Could that possible spending limit have influenced Bird to leave? Just throwing the thought out there.

  28. #3672

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm going to play devil's advocate for Walsh, and that isn't an easy task for me to do.

    We all have known for years ownership wouldn't go into LT Land. Maybe Simon put a limit on how much the FO could spend salary wise. Thus the reason why Walsh didn't bid on amnestied players, b/c it would go over Simon's limit whatever that limit is.

    Could that possible spending limit have influenced Bird to leave? Just throwing the thought out there.
    Maybe, especially since Bird specifically mentioned 65 million dollars as the Pacers cap last year, and their contracts this year are going to be pretty close to that number. But most teams have a limit of the luxury tax limit. Would Bird really leave over a difference of 5 million dollars? And would Simon insist on what seems to be an arbitrary number about halfway between the cap and the luxury tax? It holds together as a potential theory, but it's still got some serious question marks associated with it as well.

  29. #3673
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Actually, all we had to do was delay the signings of Hibbert and Hill til today. The prudent thing wouldve been to delay them til around the 18th since the front office has known all along that amnesty releases would take place July 11-17. With them having capspace it was simply irresponsible to not consider and plan appropriately for the possibility of signing some available talent at pennies on the dollar. Especially when we consider that we were forced to overpay for Hibbert and chose to overpay for Hill. Having Scola or even Brand at such a reduced rate wouldve definitely helped the overall payroll and offset those overpays.

    Major, major fail on Walsh and company. Its not like they didnt know this was a possibility.
    Its business - until the dotted sign is signed - anything can happen and change - so I really don't think the agents of Hibbert and Hill would've allowed their player to be held in lingo like that without anything solid written at hand.

    Think about it - you tell Hibbert and Hill to hold on - then next thing you know the other teams who were willing to spend on them go elsewhere with their money - now Hibbert and Hill end up getting low balled by the team. Not saying it would've happened - but as agents - its their job to avoid such situations for their players.

  30. #3674

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    can you clarify here? what would that clause look like in full? is this an NFL thing?
    NFL contracts a few years ago were riddled with "poison pill clauses" that were subsequently outlawed.

    For example, let's say the Dolphins were trying to sign a free agent from the Bears and wanted to pay him 4 years / 20 million dollars. Their contract offer would specify the salary, and then a poison pill clause would call for something like "a 10 million dollar bonus if the player participates in at least 5 NFL games played in the state of Illinois during any season".

    This would make the Bears have to pay 30 million bucks to keep a player offered only 20 million bucks by the Dolphins, who would never play that many games in Illinois.

    I don't know how the Rockets phrased the poison pill for Lin, but some reports have them making a different series of payments or different dollar amount than the Knicks would have to put up, in order to match.

    While I despise the Knicks, this sort of thing seems unfair and likely to come back to them at some point.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  32. #3675

    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    NFL contracts a few years ago were riddled with "poison pill clauses" that were subsequently outlawed.

    For example, let's say the Dolphins were trying to sign a free agent from the Bears and wanted to pay him 4 years / 20 million dollars. Their contract offer would specify the salary, and then a poison pill clause would call for something like "a 10 million dollar bonus if the player participates in at least 5 NFL games played in the state of Illinois during any season".

    This would make the Bears have to pay 30 million bucks to keep a player offered only 20 million bucks by the Dolphins, who would never play that many games in Illinois.

    I don't know how the Rockets phrased the poison pill for Lin, but some reports have them making a different series of payments or different dollar amount than the Knicks would have to put up, in order to match.

    While I despise the Knicks, this sort of thing seems unfair and likely to come back to them at some point.
    This is a little different then the NFL situation. The Rockets didn't put in any language to make it harder for the Knicks to match. It's harder for the Knicks to match because they are over the cap while the Rockets are under the cap. So the Rockets can offer Lin 3 years 25 million and have it evenly split over all 3 years, but since the Knicks are over the cap they can only pay him 5 million each of the next 2 years. So that's why the Knicks have to do the 5/5/15 split in order to make it work for their cap situation. That was the maximum the NBA will allow the Rockets to offer Lin over 3 years as well, because any more than that and the Knicks wouldn't be able to match at all.

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