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Thread: Off season Rumors and Speculation

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Bynum is a far better player than JO and I don't think JO was ever a superstar. Some players, like Bill Russell, never connected with his fan base (he didn't even like them much) but he was a superstar and so is Andrew Bynum. Dwight is a superstar because of his play, who cares what the fanbase things...... Roy Hibbert is loved but isn't even close to superstardom.... ...
    JO had his own shoe, was in all kinds of commercials, and was very popular across the country. A superstar is a player that the most casual fan can say hey I know that guy. Bynum is not even close in popularity to what Jermaine freaking O'neal was, and I don't see the new 2013 Andrew Bynums coming out anytime soon. Bill Russell was the best player in a major sports town, that's why he was a superstar not to mention multiple titles and being a HOFer!!
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If Bynum is healthy he is capable of putting 25 and 12 per game as the number one option in Philly those are superstar numbers, but as always the big question with Bynum is how healthy he is going to be?
    Kevin Martin must be a superstar then along with our own Danny Granger.
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Bynum is a far better player than JO and I don't think JO was ever a superstar. Some players, like Bill Russell, never connected with his fan base (he didn't even like them much) but he was a superstar and so is Andrew Bynum. Dwight is a superstar because of his play, who cares what the fanbase things...... Roy Hibbert is loved but isn't even close to superstardom.... ...
    Bynum has potential to be better, but so far he is not. JO had some great seasons here in Indiana. People like to forget those years with how it all ended. Bynum needs to stay healthy and put up numbers as the main guy before you can say he is far better than JO. Still has a lot to prove.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    JO had his own shoe, was in all kinds of commercials, and was very popular across the country. A superstar is a player that the most casual fan can say hey I know that guy. Bynum is not even close in popularity to what Jermaine freaking O'neal was, and I don't see the new 2013 Andrew Bynums coming out anytime soon. Bill Russell was the best player in a major sports town, that's why he was a superstar not to mention multiple titles and being a HOFer!!
    Who cares about commercials? RGIII does a bunch of them and I haven't seen Andrew Luck in any. Does that mean RGIII is a superstar and Luck isn't? Of course not. Jermaine freaking O'Neal was never a superstar and I am not talking about a popularity contest here. Patrick Ewing was not beloved by the fans but he was a superstar and so is Andrew Bynum and he is paid to be one too...... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    Kevin Martin must be a superstar then along with our own Danny Granger.
    Danny Granger never came close to those numbers. Bynum doesn't have to have those numbers to be the second best center in the League. His defense is sound. If he repeats last years numbers and plays good defense, he will be the all star starting center. Hell, he will be the all start starting center even if has some lesser numbers. There isn't anyone in the East even close to him..... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Who cares about commercials? RGIII does a bunch of them and I haven't seen Andrew Luck in any. Does that mean RGIII is a superstar and Luck isn't? Of course not. Jermaine freaking O'Neal was never a superstar and I am not talking about a popularity contest here. Patrick Ewing was not beloved by the fans but he was a superstar and so is Andrew Bynum and he is paid to be one too...... ...
    Andrew Luck is one of the most hyped college players ever by the media, are you being serious? Ewing was also mega hyped and played for New York Knicks. The fanbase absolutely makes a superstar, with the combination of a player being the man and putting up great numbers. Bynum hasn't put up great numbers, nor has he been the man.
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    you guys are always getting into the weirdest semantic arguments

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    People talk about Bynum like he's done something, and he hasn't.

    Am I the only one who realizes the 3 years before the lockout shortened season he averaged something like 14 points, and 8 rebounds? Last year was the first year he averaged anything remotely close to equal to the amount of praise he gets. Between that, his health issues, and being a big whiner, he may have the talent to be the 2nd best center in the NBA, but I can think of several guys I'd rather have.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    you guys are always getting into the weirdest semantic arguments
    I love this post.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    People talk about Bynum like he's done something, and he hasn't.

    Am I the only one who realizes the 3 years before the lockout shortened season he averaged something like 14 points, and 8 rebounds? Last year was the first year he averaged anything remotely close to equal to the amount of praise he gets. Between that, his health issues, and being a big whiner, he may have the talent to be the 2nd best center in the NBA, but I can think of several guys I'd rather have.
    Does Bynum have a ring? He has done plenty. He played on a team of stars and he blended his game in. It remains to be seen if Howard can do that (I think he can). I would only take one other center in the entire NBA over Bynum and that is closer than most people think. Hibbert is not even in Bynum's class as a player. As a man, certainly, but not as a player. Now that Bynum is out from under Bryan and Gasol, he should blossom and put us spectacular numbers. The team won't be as good because it doesn't have those stars but Bynum will show just how good he really is. The Sixers may be better than the Pacers right now and it is all because of Andrew Bynum....... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He average 18 and 12 with Kobe and Gasol last year I think is fair to expect him to average more as the main guy.
    A few things....

    1. Bynum was the second option last year, while Pau played more in the high post. So it's not like he lacked touches.
    2. Last year was the first yr Bynum EVER put up more than decent offensive numbers. Yes he is very talented, but he picks and chooses what games he plays hard in and what games he coasts in.
    3. So you're telling me it's reasonable to think that Bynum's numbers were effected by playing with other talented players that're taking up FGA; but it's not reasonable to think that someone like Danny or D.West has their numbers affected by playing with other talented offensive players? Obviously different personnel and different schemes but the idea is the same.

    Speaking as a Laker fan, who's also a part of a fan forum similar to PD; most of us were happy to see Bynum go. His effort never consistently matched his talent. He would go for a 11/11 game just as often as he'd go for a 20/20 game
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 10-11-2012 at 09:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    Andrew Luck is one of the most hyped college players ever by the media, are you being serious? Ewing was also mega hyped and played for New York Knicks. The fanbase absolutely makes a superstar, with the combination of a player being the man and putting up great numbers. Bynum hasn't put up great numbers, nor has he been the man.
    Yes, Luck is the most overhyped college player to ever come into the NFL. Was Bill Russell a superstar? He hated Boston and the people who came to those games because the thought they were all racist. He didn't make peace with that fanbase until years after his retirement. He even threatened to not attend the ceremony retiring his jersey there. Russell had great rebounding numbers but his scoring was never anything special. He was a great shot blocker but they didn't even keep those stats during his career. Look at the money. Who is paid what? Superstars get paid big money. Andrew Bynum gets paid superstar money and that is because he one. There is only one team in the NBA that would not trade their center and just about any other player on the team for Bynum and that includes the Pacers..... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We will see.
    Bynum had Kobe and Gasol as distractions while he put up points as the third option. Let's see how well he handles the pressure of being the top guy, and how he adjusts to entire defensive schemes focused on shutting him down.
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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Bynum had Kobe and Gasol as distractions while he put up points as the third option. Let's see how well he handles the pressure of being the top guy, and how he adjusts to entire defensive schemes focused on shutting him down.
    He will do just fine. He has a first class coach to help him through that. Bynum sacrificed his game on the Lakers and Howard will have to do that to. As Kobe said, this is still MY team..... ...

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Bynum had Kobe and Gasol as distractions while he put up points as the third option. Let's see how well he handles the pressure of being the top guy, and how he adjusts to entire defensive schemes focused on shutting him down.
    I completely agree. It is so hard now in this NBA for centers who are the main offensive options to put up big numbers. Bynum is not in Howard's class, playing with Kobe and Gasol made some people last year think he was, but it takes a serious type of talent to dominate in the post now offensively. With the way wings have gotten bigger, stronger, faster over the past decade or so the collapse defense on big men who are the focus of their offense is vicious. You either need to be an incredibly elite athlete or have some serious skill moves to be the number 1 option as a 7 footer not named Dirk.

    Bynum is going to see guys like Lebron, Paul George, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, etc. collapse on him much harder than they ever did with the Lakers. How will his decision making be then? Will he make the right decision or will he turn it over? That is one of the things that Hibbert does not give enough credit for. He is generally a very good decision maker in the post, sometimes he could stand to make slightly quicker decisions but he has at least shown he can usually make the right decision. When Bynum is posted up on Brook Lopez for example and then has Gerald Wallace cheating off collapsing fast on him, how will he react?? I think you will see him make mistakes personally. I think Bynum will average roughly 15 and 10. Think about the numbers 25 and 12 for a second those are numbers Dwight has never approached (sorry he has approached them once 23 and 14 on in 2010-2011 on a Magic team that went 52-30 and was bumped int he first round, just for comparison and that was with those crazy numbers anchoring their team, can you imagine what the Pacers would do if Roy did something like that? Yikes those Magic teams were/are crap) and even though Dwight gets clowned on a lot for his lack of offensive skill the gap between him and Bynum in terms of skills is not that large and Dwight is an absolute monster athletically compared to Bynum. Now if Jrue Holiday or Evan Turner makes a huge leap this year, maybe this all changes a bit and Bynum gets a little more room to operate in the post.

    It took Dwight Howard three years to put up 18 and 12 and he was absolutely the guy all those years. Just being "the guy" doesn't automatically mean you are going to dominate. Maybe Bynum dominates, but maybe (and his career history suggests that right now at least this is the more likely outcome) he misses 20-30 games and averages more like the 15 and 10 I foresee happening.

    All we can do is wait, but I just don't see anything even close to 25 and 12 being in the realm of possibility. I think the Sixers would tell you that if he can repeat last season they will be thrilled and they should be.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-11-2012 at 11:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He will do just fine. He has a first class coach to help him through that. Bynum sacrificed his game on the Lakers and Howard will have to do that to. As Kobe said, this is still MY team..... ...
    He sacrificed his game? Before last seaosn he barely ever played enough to even know how much game he had for certain. This is a guy that before last year played 54 games, 65 games, 50 games, 35 games. That's pretty alarming from a big man. We as Pacer fans should know how hard it is for big men to shake that injury bug once it bites them a few times.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Did anybody else watch the gametime report on NBAtv the other day that said Bynum & Collins were already not getting along?


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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Surprise!

    Bynum looks like he gained the Lockout 50 a year late. He'll be out of the league or Eddy Curry's doppleganger in three years.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Surprise!

    Bynum looks like he gained the Lockout 50 a year late. He'll be out of the league or Eddy Curry's doppleganger in three years.
    Bynum is definitely looking a little pudgy compared to last year.

    Right now:





    At All Star break last year:


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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Collins is a bit like a JOB with (much) better coaching ability. Old school demeanor, stuck in his ways, his way or the high way, no coddling, all that stuff. I'm a big admirer of a lot of those traits, but they just don't work for the long term anymore. You HAVE to be a "players' coach" now. It was always true that dumping the coach instead of the team is much easier but it's way worse now with the gigantic boom of player salaries in the last dozen years or so.

    Sure he had the giant endorsements, but in strictly NBA salary Jordan made above current MLE money twice in his whole career. And he hasn't been retired THAT long. It's just wild to me the way salaries have exploded in all sports. I'm obviously not an economist but I really don't see how it's sustainable for the NBA when pretty much every team has like a quarter of their roster making 8+ million a year. Maybe I'm being naive about it but I just don't see how the NBA brings in THAT much revenue.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Ace E.Anderson;1508817]A few things....

    1. Bynum was the second option last year, while Pau played more in the high post. So it's not like he lacked touches.
    Are you really telling me that players get enough touches while playing with Kobe? you know that is not true, and Bynum was the 3rd option.

    2. Last year was the first yr Bynum EVER put up more than decent offensive numbers. Yes he is very talented, but he picks and chooses what games he plays hard in and what games he coasts in.
    Yes he picks and chooses when he want to play and has been hurt for too long but do you know he averaged 13,14.14, 11 and 18ppg in the past five years? not only that but his rebounding numbers have never been under 8rpg, I remember when I called Roy's 12ppg decent numbers and got blasted for it ......

    3. So you're telling me it's reasonable to think that Bynum's numbers were effected by playing with other talented players that're taking up FGA; but it's not reasonable to think that someone like Danny or D.West has their numbers affected by playing with other talented offensive players? Obviously different personnel and different schemes but the idea is the same.
    Bynum is 24 years of age he haven't hit his prime yet, wayyyy different than expecting two guys past their prime to someway somehow increase their productivity.

    Speaking as a Laker fan, who's also a part of a fan forum similar to PD; most of us were happy to see Bynum go. His effort never consistently matched his talent. He would go for a 11/11 game just as often as he'd go for a 20/20 game
    And we can pretty much say the same thing about Roy.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Are you really telling me that players get enough touches while playing with Kobe? you know that is not true, and Bynum was the 3rd option.
    Hey I'm a Kobe guy , and no he doesn't pass it nearly enough. But believe me, Bynum was the second option. That's why Pau struggled so much to find his place in the offense last season.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes he picks and chooses when he want to play and has been hurt for too long but do you know he averaged 13,14.14, 11 and 18ppg in the past five years? not only that but his rebounding numbers have never been under 8rpg, I remember when I called Roy's 12ppg decent numbers and got blasted for it ......
    You're right, he put up similar numbers to Roy--up until last year when he exploded for 18 a game. I'm not saying Bynum is a scrub, or even an average player. He is very good. The point I was making was that he hasn't shown the ability to be a "carry the team on your back" type of superstar. Obviously Roy isn't that type of player, and up until last season, Bynum was putting up similar stats. I think we both agree that it'll be interesting to see how well Bynum plays this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Bynum is 24 years of age he haven't hit his prime yet, wayyyy different than expecting two guys past their prime to someway somehow increase their productivity.
    Bynum is an "old" 24 having played in the league since he was 17-18 years old. Also, he probably has the knees of a 32 yr old. Young big guys with constant knee issues hardly ever fully get past them. I can't think of one who has, but I'm sure it's happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And we can pretty much say the same thing about Roy.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    What's hilarious is that I feel like Bynum has more than met expectations, and the same guys that were begging the FO to trade for him are now the ones running him down because we didn't get him.

    Don't ever change, PD.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
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    What's hilarious is that I feel like Bynum has more than met expectations, and the same guys that were begging the FO to trade for him are now the ones running him down because we didn't get him.

    Don't ever change, PD.
    I'm not sure how accurate you are because I know I never wanted him on the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Off season Rumors and Speculation

    I see a lot of people say that "the same people that said x say y" but I've never seen anyone prove that its actually the same people.

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