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Thread: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

  1. #76
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    I love this board. All these change for the sake of change posts that get thrown around here. Lateral moves are lateral moves, there's no point. So many posters here imagine themselves some sort of NBA GM in waiting, with grand ideas of how to pull off the championship-winning trade that noone else thought of. In reality you just want to see your favorite NBA players from other teams on the Pacers, whether its actually good for the franchise or not. And get rid of whichever scapegoat you are currently blaming for not being able to gloat about your favorite team being NBA champions. Larry Bird is an NBA legend and a paid, professional GM that has taken this team from a sub.-500 team lost in no man's land to the 5th best record in the NBA. You're just some guy on an internet message board. I think I'll pick Bird's plan over all these hair-brained schemes.

    Like it or not, the current core players are gonna be here for the forseeable future. This is the direction Bird has decided to go, and its working. There's no point in doing a total 180 right now by trading major core players. Might as well get on board with the plan, and quit wishing for the Pacers to be some other team with some other team's players. Its not gonna happen.
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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    my guess is Bird laughs and hangs up the phone for most if not all of the suggested trades.
    Bird laughs?

    Anyone is available for the right price. But player hate is not a good reason to change a player unless all your fans hate him, ie Jamaal. Pacers are not in need of different players, they are in need of players that make a difference. In other words, not players that may or may not be better. Not a bunch of not quite as good player for Danny, but players that are a lot better. Players that make the Pacers a much better team, not players that make it a different team.

    Most times making a trade just to make a trade is a bad idea. This is one of those times.
    That's true, but this isn't people wanting to trade just to trade. Rather, people seem to have insanely different perceptions of the players in question.

    I mean, between Danny being a proven winner, a tough guy and a good defender to him basically being a Barbosa level player in decline. I seem to have missed both of those trains.

    And on the other hand, the David Lee = Troy Murphy comparison. It just seems like "hmm, double double guy with bad defense from GSW... hey, that reminds me of Troy Murphy!" comparison.
    IMO, Lee is so much better and more efficient offensively (post moves, passing, shot selection), and plays with so much more effort/hustle.
    If he was a good defender on top of it, he'd be a perennial All Star.

    To me, Danny and David Lee are in the same tier of players.
    Imperfect, in their prime, but right outside of the All Star level.
    If contracts were identical, you'd choose one or another based on your needs. If Lee comes with a high lotto pick (won't happen, but lets say), you'd have to think hard.
    To me, it's an obvious asset upgrade, so it's not "a trade just to trade". It doesn't mean it's a nobrainer --- if you believe it kills your chemistry, identity, playing style, you can still pass. It's not that rare to pass on a talent upgrade because it makes no sense. But neither doing that trade, nor passing on it seems like a nobrainer to me.

    (but it does seem like a nobrainer for GSW to hang up, since they quite obviously lose on talent and open up a huge gap in their rotation)

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  5. #78

    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    #7 for Granger? I think that's an easy pass. Here are the past #7's. I think Danny is above that average...and I'm not a big Granger fan. I am open to trading a known and younger asset for Granger...but not a chance.

    Bismack Biyombo
    Greg Monroe
    Stephen Curry
    Eric Gordon
    Corey Brewer
    Randy Foye
    Charlie Villanueva

    Greg Monroe... in a heartbeat while walking away whistling never looking back!!!

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    I love this board. All these change for the sake of change posts that get thrown around here. Lateral moves are lateral moves, there's no point. So many posters here imagine themselves some sort of NBA GM in waiting, with grand ideas of how to pull off the championship-winning trade that noone else thought of. In reality you just want to see your favorite NBA players from other teams on the Pacers, whether its actually good for the franchise or not. And get rid of whichever scapegoat you are currently blaming for not being able to gloat about your favorite team being NBA champions. Larry Bird is an NBA legend and a paid, professional GM that has taken this team from a sub.-500 team lost in no man's land to the 5th best record in the NBA. You're just some guy on an internet message board. I think I'll pick Bird's plan over all these hair-brained schemes.

    Like it or not, the current core players are gonna be here for the forseeable future. This is the direction Bird has decided to go, and its working. There's no point in doing a total 180 right now by trading major core players. Might as well get on board with the plan, and quit wishing for the Pacers to be some other team with some other team's players. Its not gonna happen.
    Great a guy that complains about people acting like GM's and telling us that we like it or not "our core is going to be together"....... aren't those the kind of decisions GM's make?

  7. #80
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Lateral moves are still worth doing if it means the talent going out was not as good of a fit with the rest of your roster as the talent coming in.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Lateral moves are still worth doing if it means the talent going out was not as good of a fit with the rest of your roster as the talent coming in.
    The George Hill K Leonard trade is a good example, it was a good trade for both teams.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    I love this board. All these change for the sake of change posts that get thrown around here. Lateral moves are lateral moves, there's no point. So many posters here imagine themselves some sort of NBA GM in waiting, with grand ideas of how to pull off the championship-winning trade that noone else thought of. In reality you just want to see your favorite NBA players from other teams on the Pacers, whether its actually good for the franchise or not. And get rid of whichever scapegoat you are currently blaming for not being able to gloat about your favorite team being NBA champions. Larry Bird is an NBA legend and a paid, professional GM that has taken this team from a sub.-500 team lost in no man's land to the 5th best record in the NBA. You're just some guy on an internet message board. I think I'll pick Bird's plan over all these hair-brained schemes.

    Like it or not, the current core players are gonna be here for the forseeable future. This is the direction Bird has decided to go, and its working. There's no point in doing a total 180 right now by trading major core players. Might as well get on board with the plan, and quit wishing for the Pacers to be some other team with some other team's players. Its not gonna happen.
    I agree with some of this, but the thing is this as a pacer forum where people should throw out whatever idea they have, at the least it sparks conversation, whether they think they are better than bird or not. Every move our management makes or does not make will be criticized for one reason or another and that is fine.

    Also there is nothing wrong with putting out their grand ideas, if you are not invested in what you are saying and don't feel like it will be helpful then what is the use in putting it. I can honestly say that I have no clue at what Birds full plan is, or if it will work, but I will say what I think should happen and what I feel the pacers need to do to get a championship, whether it happens or not does not really matter, but being free to voice my opinion and back it up with reasoning is all I care about.

    If everyone just followed Bird's plan(whether it is the best or not) and did not think of anything else, a big portion of this website would be wiped out. I feel this website allows for learning and teaching and I really appreciate that.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  12. #83
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Who is this Danny super hero that you are referring to? lol
    He is not a superhero or superstar by any means. He is more valuable to this franchise than any other, though. He wants to stay a Pacer for life, is the captain, and our clear best player, although not most consistent. He provides more than the stats to this team. I wouldn't even answer the phone unless they were offering a very clear upgrade to our team, which they won't. Pulling the trigger on a lateral deal only hurts chemistry.
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The George Hill K Leonard trade is a good example, it was a good trade for both teams.
    The argument here is that the Pacers could have signed Hill outright if the owner didn't have a stupid rule. EIther way the Pacers could have gotten Hill AND Leonard.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    The argument here is that the Pacers could have signed Hill outright if the owner didn't have a stupid rule. EIther way the Pacers could have gotten Hill AND Leonard.
    Not likely. Hill was upset at first on leaving San Antonio. I don't think he would have signed with us unless we would have done what Herb doesn't want to do, overpay someone.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Golden State has said they won't be keeping all 4 picks this year and are looking for veteran help. Instead of looking at Granger, maybe we could offer Jones for one of their 2cd. round picks. We could use the extra cap space to take a bigger swing in free agency.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I agree with some of this, but the thing is this as a pacer forum where people should throw out whatever idea they have, at the least it sparks conversation, whether they think they are better than bird or not. Every move our management makes or does not make will be criticized for one reason or another and that is fine.

    Also there is nothing wrong with putting out their grand ideas, if you are not invested in what you are saying and don't feel like it will be helpful then what is the use in putting it. I can honestly say that I have no clue at what Birds full plan is, or if it will work, but I will say what I think should happen and what I feel the pacers need to do to get a championship, whether it happens or not does not really matter, but being free to voice my opinion and back it up with reasoning is all I care about.

    If everyone just followed Bird's plan(whether it is the best or not) and did not think of anything else, a big portion of this website would be wiped out. I feel this website allows for learning and teaching and I really appreciate that.
    Some people forget here that complainings from blogs like this one and fans outcry helped to get rid of the clown of JOB, either way like you said if nobody disagrees here and everybody agrees that the Pacers are great nobody would care to read anything on this blog, there is a reason why I don't even care to read the other websites.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    He is not a superhero or superstar by any means. He is more valuable to this franchise than any other, though. He wants to stay a Pacer for life, is the captain, and our clear best player, although not most consistent. He provides more than the stats to this team. I wouldn't even answer the phone unless they were offering a very clear upgrade to our team, which they won't. Pulling the trigger on a lateral deal only hurts chemistry.
    He is all you said but, I don't know how easy it is to call something a lateral move, I doubt we will be trading him, and I think chemistry is important and keeping him around for one more year at least would be the way to go.

    As far as lateral moves, is it lateral for now, is it lateral for the future, are you trading a vet for potential, who will you be able to get with the 7th pick, how will they fit the scheme and the chemistry of the team, I think there is so much to go into saying if a move is lateral or not, and I really think that can not be determined right away, it has to be something that is determined over time, especially when you are dealing with the big P word, POTENTIAL.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Not likely. Hill was upset at first on leaving San Antonio. I don't think he would have signed with us unless we would have done what Herb doesn't want to do, overpay someone.
    He would have signed with us because the Spurs don't need him AND don't have the cash to commit long term to him. Either way he would have ended up with another team and the Pacers would have been a playoff team regardless.

    The funny part in all this is that we don't set Hills value and neither did/does SA. The market regardless will telll us if Hill will get overpaid and IMO that is 7 million or more.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    With the #7, we could get Perry Jones, who can play 3-4-5, which would allow him to backup Paul George at the 3, as well as West and Hibbert at the 4/5. I don't know if I would necessarily give Granger away for just the #7, though.
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Some people forget here that complainings from blogs like this one and fans outcry helped to get rid of the clown of JOB, either way like you said if nobody disagrees here and everybody agrees that the Pacers are great nobody would care to read anything on this blog, there is a reason why I don't even care to read the other websites.
    I think that gives way more power to fan sites and letters to the editor than they deserve, but either way if you are going to claim credit for getting rid of JOB you have to accept blame for the dumping of Artest, SJax, et alia due to fan (and sponsor) noise.
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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Curry + pick for Danny and DC would be a more reasonable trade.
    Get Larry on the phone and let's make this happen.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    He would have signed with us because the Spurs don't need him AND don't have the cash to commit long term to him. Either way he would have ended up with another team and the Pacers would have been a playoff team regardless.

    The funny part in all this is that we don't set Hills value and neither did/does SA. The market regardless will telll us if Hill will get overpaid and IMO that is 7 million or more.
    I disagree, he won't get anything more then and MLE offer from any other team. Maybe not even the full MLE. Market value for good combo guards was only about 5 mil last year and teams are going to use more caution this year as the grace period for the LT comes to an end with the 2013/14 season.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    He has a better chance guarding the nba 2 than the 5, I think he will be best at guarding the 3 and the stretch 4, if he can get a little stronger I would say 3 and 4, he has a ton of potential but again the question comes up, how much do you really feel like gambling, chemistry, potential, vet leadership, role, very tricky...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Great a guy that complains about people acting like GM's and telling us that we like it or not "our core is going to be together"....... aren't those the kind of decisions GM's make?
    Bird has indicated he wants to keep the core together, that's not spectulation. Some of you just think you have better idea's, and that's most of the time! In reality we don't actually know what trades Bird has been offered or tried.

    Really I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with the majority, but some do so nearly all the time which makes me think they are either dumb or just like to argue.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Get Larry on the phone and let's make this happen.
    Only if I knew Curry was healthy, and who would u take with 7, if we could turn Danny and DC into a healthy Curry and Drummond I would be all for it, anyone else and I would say that we would have a lot of thinking to do and it probably would not happen.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Only if I knew Curry was healthy, and who would u take with 7, if we could turn Danny and DC into a healthy Curry and Drummond I would be all for it, anyone else and I would say that we would have a lot of thinking to do and it probably would not happen.
    I think it's unlikely Drummond falls past Portland at #6 and, if he did, I think the W's would probably keep him to themselves as he'd be excellent value at #7. Even if he wound up busting he'd still hhave value for at least a few years due to his perceived potential (see Anthony Randolph).

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    #7 for Granger? I think that's an easy pass. Here are the past #7's. I think Danny is above that average...and I'm not a big Granger fan. I am open to trading a known and younger asset for Granger...but not a chance.

    Bismack Biyombo
    Greg Monroe
    Stephen Curry
    Eric Gordon
    Corey Brewer
    Randy Foye
    Charlie Villanueva
    I would take the bolded players over Granger.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    now that i think about it....... i wouldn't mind getting Klay Thompson. thompson curry 7th for danny and dc

    Curry/Hill
    Thompson/Hill
    Paul George/Draft Pick
    David West/Hans
    Hibbert/Lou or free agent

    i actually like that ALOT
    This would be perfect but I don't think Golden State would go for it. Maybe if we added a pick and Hansbrough.

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    Default Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
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    I would take the bolded players over Granger.
    I probably wouldn't do that in the Pacers situation. The Pacers in their current position relative to the rest of their competition should probably just stick with Granger because you don't know what you're getting healthwise with Curry and Gordon.

    Greg Monroe is the guy who I thought the Warriors should have drafted in 2010 (and I still think this way), but I think he's overrated by a lot of people. He skilled, but for a bigman, he's a little more Troy Murphy-esque than people realize.

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