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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

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  • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
    I get you now! You don't understand the written word. You are equating Able's posts on Tyler as the same as your posts on Granger. Except nobody is tired of Able beating a dead horse because he rarely does it. I would say for each post Able has indicated a dislike of Tyler, you have made a hundred against Danny. So Able isn't doing the same thing. You're the one that needs to stop.
    I'm pretty sure a lot of people post that they are tired or ignore Able's posts but I think is possible that you haven't seen the responses because you are too worry about riding that high horse a bit too much and nope I'm not going to stop .
    Last edited by vnzla81; 06-01-2012, 07:55 PM.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

      I wish Larry would do some tweaking and go after Deron ( it is possible, and Larry said he would like to go after guys in FA, if Herb is up for it.).... but realistically the Pacers get Nash (if he is willing to sign here) and keep the major guys together on the team. Nash would help in a lot of ways... I think he would be able to teach collison and hill a lot about passing and spacing (something both of these guys need a lot of help with to become good PG's and not just good players).

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      • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

        Originally posted by ballism View Post
        To me, it seems like a simple factual disagreement about certain deals being lateral "shake ups". Rather than people wanting to shake things up with deals that they consider lateral.



        This is a very interesting question in itself, regardless of the related discussion.

        Two come to mind.

        Miami Shaq trade. A very promising near-contender (4-2 in conference semis). Best player that year (Odom), a good and rising youngster (Caron Butler), a good vet in low 30s (Brian Grant) for a superstar nearing the end of his prime. It would be a little similar to us trading Granger, George and West for someone like Wade, and building around him and Hibbert.

        Denver Iverson for Chauncey trade.
        I suppose in hindsight it's lopsided since Chauncey did so well and Iverson went downhill very fast. At the time, many considered it an upgrade in identity and fit but a loss in talent.
        Iverson wasn't really their best player but he arguably played a bigger role than Granger does here.

        But look, the key is that some people (rightly or not, annoyingly or not) consider certain trades lopsided in our favor, and you do not. It's a factual disagreement about specific players, not a conceptual one about how to build a contender in general.
        Thanks for posting those two trades, they provide two interesting examples. In Miami's case it worked, in Denver it didn't. I'm not sure that Miami getting Shaq is what put them over the top though, Wade continuing to develop is what put them over the top. In Denver's case, it failed, they never got out of the first round.

        A key difference between us and those scenarios is they both had legit superstars, Wade and Melo. They held on to their best player and changed the guys around them. We aren't built that way, we have a team of fringe all-stars. If we want to get someone of that caliber, we'd have to gut the team. Or land a top 3 pick in the draft. Thats going backwards into rebuilding mode. This team can't afford to go into rebuilding mode right now, we just barely got the fans back as it is.

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        • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

          To be fair, vnzla did not start this thread or come up with this idea. This was an article that mentioned Granger to GS. You guys seem to be jumping on him for past comments. In the conversation about Granger to GS, They have to give up salary. Bogut, Lee, Jefferson, or Biedrins has to come back. That makes it a big no thanx for me.

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          • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

            Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
            To be fair, vnzla did not start this thread or come up with this idea. This was an article that mentioned Granger to GS. You guys seem to be jumping on him for past comments. In the conversation about Granger to GS, They have to give up salary. Bogut, Lee, Jefferson, or Biedrins has to come back. That makes it a big no thanx for me.
            Vnzla did start the thread.

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            • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

              Originally posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
              In Denver's case, it failed, they never got out of the first round.
              They went to the conf finals after the trade. Great series vs. championship Lakers.

              Btw, losers get forgotten, but they were so close to the title that year...
              If Nuggets kept leads in final minutes, it could've been over in 4 games. And then it's the very beatable Magic in the Finals.
              And Melo's career is totally different --- he gets surrounded by the Dirk aura instead of getting compared to Iverson. Many people probably start placing him above LeBron after the Decision, despite all evidence otherwise, like they do with LeBron vs. Kobe. He likely stays in Denver, and if not, he's viewed very differently regardless.

              re the Shaq trade. At the time, it seemed like over the next 5 years, small ball would be a bad idea and you'd have to go either through Duncan or Yao/T-Mac. So it made sense in that regard. And obviously, Shaq had a huge impact and he was probably the real MVP next year.
              But in a vacuum, it's a weird trade. Nowadays, I wouldn't want us to do a trade like that. You give away a ton of depth and you break up a very good playoff team of 3 youngsters with All Star potential for a 32 year old superstar. Other than Riley, probably no GM would do that.

              I don't know that I agree with that logic in your second paragraph. For one, obviously, the Denver trade was not about getting a superstar, it was about building a roster with pieces that compliment each other better and changing identity. But more generally, I don't agree that there are only two ways to win - either a few superstars or many 'fringe All Stars'.

              In the end, I think trades have to be judged on a case by case basis. We have obvious flaws. If we can't fix them via cap, it's fair to ask if they can be fixed via trades and then the cap used to fill in the new gaps.
              Last edited by ballism; 06-02-2012, 12:59 AM.

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              • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
                To be fair, vnzla did not start this thread or come up with this idea. This was an article that mentioned Granger to GS. You guys seem to be jumping on him for past comments. In the conversation about Granger to GS, They have to give up salary. Bogut, Lee, Jefferson, or Biedrins has to come back. That makes it a big no thanx for me.
                Looking from GSW perspective, likely Jefferson or Biedrins. Which brings back the point of how much GSW management sucks. What other team wastes their amnesty while having overpaid guys on long contracts. You just have to keep amnesty as an insurance in that situation.

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                • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                  Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
                  To be fair, vnzla did not start this thread or come up with this idea. This was an article that mentioned Granger to GS.
                  Morever, it was an article just throwing Granger's name out there was ONE of a handful of SFs the Warriors would inquire about trading their #7 pick for. It didn't mention anything about the teams even having a discussion.

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                  • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                    I don't envision Danny being traded this offseason, it would have to be a clear upgrade or one heck of a player and right now I don't see that kind of player A.) Becoming available B.) Wanting to play in Indiana.

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                    • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                      Vnzla81, how do you feel about those people that want to read the posts on this thread and one fifth of them belong to you?

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                      • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                        Some of these proposed trades are a comical-level of overrating Danny's trade value, almost on par with those Odom and Bynum demands some PDers wanted for a broken-down J.O. several years back.

                        Danny's a good player, but it's clear by now that he's nothing special. He's a one-dimensional #2/3 scoring option who's nearing 30. I like him personally, and I like that he's finally gotten the chance to win here after years of mediocrity, but if we could land a talented youngster for him, someone that could play with Roy and George for the next decade, I'd pull the trigger.

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                        • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                          I understand the fact that we should always be looking to improve our team but there is no chance in hell Larry is actively shopping Danny Granger. The leading scorer on a team that just did a complete turn-around and gave Miami a tough series in the second round of the playoffs. If it weren't for Granger we probably would have been bounced in the first round, and that's only if we would have made the playoffs. That's why people around here get so pissed about constant posts about Danny trade proposals and throwing him under the bus. Paul Pierce was in a similar situation a few years ago before Allen and Garnett were brought in, and no I'm not saying Danny is Paul Pierce, but the situations are close.

                          "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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                          • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                            #7 and a serviceable backup big for Granger? Do it yesterday. We get younger, improve a huge area of need, and most importantly get an important piece in a quality draft for a one dimensional player who has regressed the past 3 yrs (lol @ the dude saying he doesn't feel like he's regressed. are you going on your heart or something?). Granger is a nice guy, and would make a good 2nd fiddle on a championship contending team. But he's also steadily declining, and his value will only go down as the years go by. He's a nice guy and a solid, loyal player. But if he can really bring all that, you do it. Sticking with the status quo will only get this team an exit in the first round in the years to come when Dwight, Bosh and Rose are healthy. A team like this is probably not going to sign a Deron Williams. But they can draft an elite talent, with a high enough pick.

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                            • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                              Originally posted by DGPR View Post
                              I understand the fact that we should always be looking to improve our team but there is no chance in hell Larry is actively shopping Danny Granger. The leading scorer on a team that just did a complete turn-around and gave Miami a tough series in the second round of the playoffs. If it weren't for Granger we probably would have been bounced in the first round, and that's only if we would have made the playoffs. That's why people around here get so pissed about constant posts about Danny trade proposals and throwing him under the bus. Paul Pierce was in a similar situation a few years ago before Allen and Garnett were brought in, and no I'm not saying Danny is Paul Pierce, but the situations are close.
                              LOL its like people have already forgot what happened to this team with 2 mins to go in the first half of game 5 with no Danny Granger.
                              You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                              • Re: Golden State targeting Danny Granger and other small forwards

                                I have to say, this **** is getting old... very, very old.

                                I appreciate the both the patience and persistence from guys like able and thunder maker. Like some of us, they have tried. But like many of us, they continue to beat their heads against the wall. I guess I just give up. There is no sense in trying to apply logic, because the other side of the argument defies any sensible form of logic.

                                On one hand, the rationale behind an argument is disputed by the other party, but when other party uses the same rationale, it is perfectly acceptable to him. Sheesh!

                                It is never acceptable for anyone to take exception to individuals as opposed to the ideas proposed by those individuals, but I really have to go there.

                                Vnzla, you are sucking the joy out of my forum experience. I've tried at times putting you on Ignore, but you tend to dominate the forum and many, many threads get re-focused to your objection of . So many folks take the bait and enter an argument with you that your posts are quoted all over the place. There is no getting away from you or your arguments. And, oftentimes, if you don't defy logic, you defy sensibility and compassion.

                                For the sake of myself and others that have enjoyed this forum and its predecessor for nearly two decades, may I beg of you one simple favor? Please, please, please, try to show a little temperance.

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