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Thread: Bird press conference

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    If the plan is really no major moves and to just count on big improvements from the guys we've got now, this team will never contend.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'll pick on vnzla here because it's easy and terribly entertaining...

    The bolded. How can you possibly have any idea how big of an impact Foster was as a mentor? That is just a horse **** comment you threw in there in an ill-fated attempt to strengthen your position.

    I don't get why we spend so much time on this board discussing Foster. Of course the front office knew he had back trouble--he's had back trouble for the past half decade. It's nothing new. My guess is they resigned him in the hopes that he could be available for the playoffs. Anything he could give us in the regular season was icing on the cake. We had the cap space, there weren't a ton of other options on the market at the time, and the man has engrained himself in the organization over the course of his career. I'm sure if the front office were faced with this situation again (without the benefit of hindsight), they would play it the exact same way.
    Well that's my point making the argument that he was some kind of mentor is also BS, how do you guys know that? paying him 3mil was a huge mistake not matter how you guys look at it.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You cannot be serious. The starters were more of the problem than the bench, because the starters didn't outscore the heat by enough to overcome the fact that the bench was outscored.

    Are you a politician with that type of spin?
    The starters were the biggest problem because they were not good enough to beat Miami yes, I don't care what your stats say I got to watch the games and some of our starters didn't play to their potential and some were just not good enough.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Well that's my point making the argument that he was some kind of mentor is also BS, how do you guys know that? paying him 3mil was a huge mistake not matter how you guys look at it.
    All the second hand reports from people close to the team is how we know he is a good locker room presence. Hell, I think our front office has said as much in the past.

    Paying him 3mil was a huge mistake in your opinion. That is an opinion. It is not a fact. For it to be a "huge mistake" there must have been another far superior option out there for our $3 million investment in Foster. I am more than happy to hear how you, the maestro of fawning over anyone and everyone who has ever even been rumored to be available, would have better spent that money.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    The starters were good enough to beat Miami, which is why they outscored them. Do we need to talk about how a team wins a basketball game? I mean, I thought that outscoring your opponent was the whole idea of basketball, but I guess not. News to me.

    Starters outscore Miami = they're at fault for losing
    Bench gets outscored by Miami = starters are at fault for losing

    too good.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    All the second hand reports from people close to the team is how we know he is a good locker room presence. Hell, I think our front office has said as much in the past.

    Paying him 3mil was a huge mistake in your opinion. That is an opinion. It is not a fact. For it to be a "huge mistake" there must have been another far superior option out there for our $3 million investment in Foster. I am more than happy to hear how you, the maestro of fawning over anyone and everyone who has ever even been rumored to be available, would have better spent that money.
    Yes he was a good locker room precense when he was in the locker room.....

    And thanks god your are not our GM or you would expend crazy money on "mentors"...

  10. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Well that's my point making the argument that he was some kind of mentor is also BS, how do you guys know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bird
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    "He was somebody that came in here every day and worked hard, did the things he was supposed to do, he was a mentor to a lot of young players that came through our organization,"
    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/caugh...r-ready-future

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  12. #83
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Well that's my point making the argument that he was some kind of mentor is also BS, how do you guys know that? paying him 3mil was a huge mistake not matter how you guys look at it.
    As I understand it, even WITH Foster we were under the minimum salary since we didn't sign anyone else. If not, we were right at the minimum salary because we still got to count the amount amnestied with Posey.

    Either way, without Foster's salary we'd have been under the minimum. Under the minimum means we PAY OUT THE SAME AMOUNT IN SALARY SPLIT BETWEEN THE MEMBERS OF THE TEAM.

    So, Foster's roster space didn't prevent the acquisition of another player (still roster space and plenty of salary cap space).
    Foster was traveling with the team until just before he announced his retirement on March 21 (3 months into a 4 month season), so he was around to make an impact.
    Foster's salary WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE PAID ANYWAY.

    How is this somehow the bungle you make it out to be? It may not have been a big win but it was certainly a no-lose proposition.
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    If the plan is really no major moves and to just count on big improvements from the guys we've got now, this team will never contend.
    As good as Bird has been as our GM, I've always found his loyalty to "his guys" has always been a bit of a detriment. He STILL seems to think that Lance is going to be our superstar player someday. Obviously Lance has talent, but if he was that "type" of talent, we would have at least seen some resemblance of this by now.

    Whether he wants to admit it or not, we need more TALENT. It doesn't matter if its another starter, another 6th man, we just need more talent in general. Everyone seems to be able to identify what our true needs are (upgrade at PG, an athletic backup big man, and another slashing/scoring type of wing) so I wonder whether or not Bird sees the same things that we see.

    Bottom line: Yes Growth from within is important, but an upgrade in talent is just as important if not more so.

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  16. #85
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Or that Miami was playing Lebron and Dwade full time, please tell me what bench is going to have a net positive against those two guys? I'll be here waiting for the answer............
    On a related note.........I am guessing that LeWade playing the vast majority of the minutes at the SG/SF spots for the entire series is something that will work against non-elite Teams.....but once they start playing the Elite Teams or Teams that are built better than the Pacers.....this strategy won't work.

    Playing 2 Elite Level Players "full Time" is going to be the exception for any Team and not the norm for the entire Playoffs. Sure, it worked against us...cuz we simply weren't as good as we thought we were.....but good luck using this strategy against a Team that was actually deep and could continually go against you for 48 minutes a game for an entire Playoffs.
    Last edited by CableKC; 05-30-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  17. #86

    Default Re: Bird press conference

    I think it should be considered what the effects of the new CBA will be on the NBA. It has been well documented that just about every year the team who has won the title has had a star. Those teams have been for the most part also been in the luxury tax. They've tended to have stars and depth.

    Now, the new CBA seems to be scaring teams. The reports out of Chicago have them wanting to cut significant parts of their depth in order to avoid the tax. Cuban has been quoted that going into the luxury tax will be a much harder decision than before. Reports from Miami have them as out of money to make any moves. And it will get even worse when the harshest penalties for going into the luxury tax kick in.

    So the team who wins the title will probably not have the same level of talent as teams in the past. The Pacers are in a similar boat. They could improve the roster by quite a bit immediately, but it would likely push them into the luxury tax soon enough. But if they keep the core while continuing to search for undervalued players, they could improve while these other teams are being forced to cut players from their rosters to avoid the tax.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    This off-season could really do in Miami. If they make it through a long Finals appearance, there is USA Basketball as well. The short season that will end late, and goes right into Olympics and then starts on time next year will really impact their health IMO. They could be looking at either having multiple nagging injuries to their superstars or come out of the gates really slow and have to work harder to get through the playoffs next year.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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  21. #88
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    Looks to be pretty clear Bird has no intentions of signing Deron. That's extremely depressing. It's a huge mistake as well. You can't be loyal to your guys if they aren't talented enough to win.

    By the way, it also shows in some retrospects, the David West signing was a mistake. Because Bird obviously sees West as part of the Pacers long term plans, his contract would be a direct reason as why Bird feels we can't spend any money on more talent. Trust me folks, if West is that third all-star level guy we're going to have on this team that helps this contend, he's not worth it. Because he's not that good. Not good enough to really beat down opponents.
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    The sad part, is over the next 6/7 years, I almost guarantee you Hill/DC/Barbosa will take up the necessary contract space for Deron Williams. The thing is, they aren't good enough to get that money, so honestly 1 or all of them are going to be overpaid. /killme
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    As I understand it, even WITH Foster we were under the minimum salary since we didn't sign anyone else. If not, we were right at the minimum salary because we still got to count the amount amnestied with Posey.

    Either way, without Foster's salary we'd have been under the minimum. Under the minimum means we PAY OUT THE SAME AMOUNT IN SALARY SPLIT BETWEEN THE MEMBERS OF THE TEAM.

    So, Foster's roster space didn't prevent the acquisition of another player (still roster space and plenty of salary cap space).
    Foster was traveling with the team until just before he announced his retirement on March 21 (3 months into a 4 month season), so he was around to make an impact.
    Foster's salary WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE PAID ANYWAY.

    How is this somehow the bungle you make it out to be? It may not have been a big win but it was certainly a no-lose proposition.
    What was the date when we needed to meet the minimum requirements?

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    Deron is all your chips to the middle kind of move, if it don't work out, well you've shot your wad. I see what they are doing, build something with some longevity. Deron worries me honestly, does he get paid and still bring or does he start to embezzle the money? I'm not saying he will, but if he did, well hope we all enjoyed this year.

    Its hard to see the big picture, honestly, Deron isn't the last big time free agent that you have to have that will show up. He's just not.

    I'm with Shade, pay Nash a DWest type contract, they'd be contenders next year, imo, if keeping Roy and Hill in the process.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    What was the date when we needed to meet the minimum requirements?
    So anybody here knows the date were the Pacers needed to meet the minimum salary? please....

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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So anybody here knows the date were the Pacers needed to meet the minimum salary? please....
    end of the season. that is when all salary cap stuff is done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Everyone seems to be able to identify what our true needs are... so I wonder whether or not Bird sees the same things that we see.

    Bottom line: Yes Growth from within is important, but an upgrade in talent is just as important if not more so.
    Obviously Bird understands this, or he wouldn't have replaced Tyler with David West as our starting power forward. Maybe you guys should wait until the offseason after he hasn't just been named Executive of the Year before you decide that he's clueless going into the offseason. Bird's resolute confidence has propelled him past his competitors throughout his entire career. Some of y'all are getting tricked by his p-p-poker face.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    end of the season. that is when all salary cap stuff is done.
    So this means that we didn't need Foster's salary to meet the league minimum and it actually hurt us when we wanted to acquire another player (probably Kaman) interesting....

    Thanks by the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    How the Pacers are going to be happy to pay 3mil for a guy not to play? What kind of thinking is that?
    The vast majority of people paid by PS&E don't play in the games. Coaches, trainers, support staff, front office personnel, marketing guys, ushers, vendors. Hell, Boomer, the freaking mascot, makes over 1 million a year. Is that wasted money too?

    *****EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that the $1 million Boomer salary figure I mentioned above is completely, totally wrong. Sincere apologies, someone was obviously mistaken or "yanking my chain." Nothing to see here, move along.*****

    There is value that can be brought to a team other than being on the court. In this case Foster was mentoring, practicing with players, traveling with the team (most of the season anyway). It sounds like the front office feels they got that value.

    And finally, and perhaps most importantly, as mentioned earlier in this thread, we were under the minimum salary anyway at the time of the signing, which I'd forgotten. Foster therefore did not really *cost* us 3 million. The only people who missed out on that $ were the other players on the team that would have received that additional salary, per NBA rules. So this is mostly free money we're talking about in terms of the team payroll.

    EDIT: Did not realize this calculation happened at the end of the year. That still doesn't discount the other stuff I've said here.

    I really don't see why you guys are so stuck on this, and why you're so insistent to call Jeff Foster being paid $3 million for one final season a "blunder." Yeah he retired before the playoffs, which is too bad, but this wasn't some huge terrible error, give me a break.
    Last edited by rabid; 05-31-2012 at 07:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    I'm pretty sure Boomer doesn't make a mil and as I explained before signing Foster didn't have anything to do with meeting the minimum requirements because as you know we got Barbosa and Fez.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure Boomer doesn't make a mil and as I explained before signing Foster didn't have anything to do with meeting the minimum requirements because as you know we got Barbosa and Fez.
    I was specifically told in 2005 by multiple ppl at PS&E that Boomer made that much. You'd be amazed how much some of the mascots make. It's a really tough and intense job when you think about it, not anyone can do it.

    *****EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that the $1 million Boomer salary figure I mentioned above is completely, totally wrong. Sincere apologies, someone was obviously mistaken or "yanking my chain." Nothing to see here, move along.*****
    Last edited by rabid; 05-31-2012 at 07:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure Boomer doesn't make a mil and as I explained before signing Foster didn't have anything to do with meeting the minimum requirements because as you know we got Barbosa and Fez.
    Wouldn't have gotten Fez if Foster hadn't retired. And I don't recall any calculations showing that the 3 mil for Foster was what kept us out of the running for Kaman.

    You're to the point where you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Again, Foster's retirement was not a win because we took a risk on him, but it wasn't a gamble that broke the bank or even made a difference in what the FO could do with this year's roster.
    BillS

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  37. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Also, I don't think it's fair to play Monday Morning Quarterback and say the re-signing of Jeff Foster was a mistake. At the time, it clearly wasn't. Even with his balky back, the Pacers were likely saving Foster for the playoffs where we could've sorely used him, and it's not like there weren't a handful of suitors aiming for his services.


    I'm glad you don't feel like Mr Bird should be scrutinized by others who feel the re-signing of Foster was a mistake. I'm of the other belief it was a grevious mistake/blunder/error. I stated so at the time too.

    YES, Foster was sorely, pun intended, missed in the playoffs. I would have loved to have had Foster available for the playoffs. I'd liked to have had a TRUE b/u Center to have b/u Foster all season long and for the playoffs as well. But alas, Mr. Bird didn't feel it was necessary as Lou, and a injured Pendergraph could handle the position of being Foster's b/u. I never quite understood the logic of having an injured player to b/u an injured player, but apparently Mr. Bird didn't see that as a problem.

    As far as Foster having suitors, I'm sure any possible suitor is quite pleased they didn't pay for the services Foster gave the Pacers.

    As for being a Monday Morning Qtrback, some saw what this was from the git go same as the 12.6 mil 2 year re-signing of Foster who played a whopping 16-17 games the 1st year, 09-010, of that new contract. Nothing like compounding one's mistake with doing the same mistake again. Makes me wonder if Foster hadn't retired if Bird wouldn't have gone for a hat trick.

    As I stated in my previous post in this thread, with all honesty, I'm looking forward to seeing what Bird will do this off season. Hopefully, he will pluck another gem like DWest for the coming season. No one is looking more forward to next season than I am!!!

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