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Thread: Bird press conference

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Do you, or if not does some one else, have the +/- stats from the 2011 Finals, in particular Dallas' starters versus their bench? I'd be curious to know.
    It's slow at work today, so I'll count em up real quick.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    For a big man, not a guard. The Pacers acquired 5 new players from the season prior. 3 of them were big men. If you're saying that they put all their eggs in the Foster basket, then why was the majority of players they acquired players who played the same position as Foster?
    I never said that they put all their eggs into the Foster basket. I'm saying they put some eggs into the Foster basket, which was the blunder.

    Other moves aside, putting any faith into Foster as a counted-upon player was a mistake.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    You still didn't answer my question but is OK I'm used to you not answering anything.....
    The answer is pointless. No bench in the league is going to outscore the Heat starters.

    You said that the bench was the bigger problem in the series. The starters outscored the heat. The bench did not. Telling me why the bench did not, doesn't change the fact that they didn't. When you're comparing the Pacers starters to the Pacers bench, the rest of the leagues benches and what they do against the heat is irrelevant.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    That wouldn't be a .... bench player, would it?
    We have the equivalent to those players in our bench too, DC and Barbosa were very helpful, even though some people here disagree with that, Lou did OK with his playing time, again to me the upgrade is needed in the starting unit not the bench.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The answer is pointless. No bench in the league is going to outscore the Heat starters.
    .
    And here is your answer.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Also, I don't think it's fair to play Monday Morning Quarterback and say the re-signing of Jeff Foster was a mistake. At the time, it clearly wasn't. Even with his balky back, the Pacers were likely saving Foster for the playoffs where we could've sorely used him, and it's not like there weren't a handful of suitors aiming for his services.
    It is easy to say in hindsight that re-signing Foster was a mistake. But I'm not using hindsight.

    I said it was a mistake before it ever happened. I said it was a mistake when it happened. That it turned out to be a mistake after it happened should not have come as a surprise to Bird, or anyone else.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Do you, or if not does some one else, have the +/- stats from the 2011 Finals, in particular Dallas' starters versus their bench? I'd be curious to know.
    For the entire series:
    Dirk +40 (-2, +13, +12, +7, +14, -4)
    Kidd +42 (-7, +1, +5, +12, +13, +18)
    Marion +28 (-9, +1, -1, -2, +21, +18)
    Chandler +40 (-2, +4, +4, +7, +14, +3)

    Stevenson -31 (-5, -5, -7, +6, -12, -8)
    Barea -24 (-6, -11, +3, -7, +14, -7)

    Terry +22 (0, +13, -6, +1, +1, +13)
    Peja -19 (-3, -7, -11, +2)
    Haywood -11 (-6, +5, -10)
    Cardinal +3 (-4, -3, -1, -7, +18)
    Mahinmi -10 (-6, -3, -1)


    Stevenson and Barea are like that because Stevenson started the first 3 games of the series, then Barea started for the last three.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...105310MIA.html
    Last edited by Since86; 05-30-2012 at 02:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It is easy to say in hindsight that re-signing Foster was a mistake. But I'm not using hindsight.

    I said it was a mistake before it ever happened. I said it was a mistake when it happened. That it turned out to be a mistake after it happened should not have come as a surprise to Bird, or anyone else.
    Why was it a mistake? Because he took a roster spot for someone who could contribute? Nope. Because he took money so they couldn't sign a player that they wanted? Nope. Because he took playing time away from players that were never signed, that could have still been signed? Nope.

    If it worked out, then it was a great signing. If it didn't work out, it didn't hurt anything. To think that it's a "major" blunder doesn't make any sense because it doesn't have any impact outside of Jeff and Simons' bank account.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I never said that they put all their eggs into the Foster basket. I'm saying they put some eggs into the Foster basket, which was the blunder.

    Other moves aside, putting any faith into Foster as a counted-upon player was a mistake.
    How do you know the Pacers didn't just want Foster in the locker room?

    We made other moves for bigs, so obviously Foster didn't hinder that front.

    We also know that he has helped with Lance. And who were the first two players at the field house after the lockout?

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    I watched the presser and a few takeaways:

    -- Bird is definitely staying as I got the feeling that he has worked too long and hard and does not want to walk away yet
    -- The Pacers core must get better. I think he is expecting big things from Paul, Hill, DC, Tyler, Lance and Jeff.
    -- Foster retiring hurt the Pacers and their toughness as he was missed during the playoffs
    -- Frank's success is due to him, but also the assistants that he surrounded himself with. I would expect that if and when Shaw leaves, the Pacers will bring in another well tenured assistant
    -- Bird noted that Lance has shown improvement and he and Jeff Pendergraph will both play summer league
    -- Bird expects Pendergraph to become a good role player and says that he is better than a lot of people realize
    -- When asked about a figure for Roy, Bird noted that he did not want to get into a specific number, but that the Pacers could offer Roy 5 years and that if he's not here, they will move on
    -- Kravitz asked him about Deron Williams and Bird noted that the team has to prepare for the future and not "blow all of our cap space in one year" as we have free agents the next few years (West, Tyler, DC, Paul etc.). Bird noted that this is a few year plan with cap space as they have worked hard to get here and they plan out 2-3 years
    -- Said he thought they would get a good player in the draft, but didn't rule out packing the pick with another player or trading for a veteran player. Perhaps DC and #26 for ???
    -- Mentioned the bench needs to get better as they somewhat disappointed him during the playoffs a little
    -- Said that they have to prepare for the draft and summer league over the next month and have a lot to do, but will be ready to go
    -- Noted that there were no problems this year and he was proud of his kids for doing a good job
    -- Herb does not allow him to get into bidding wars for restricted players as teams usually overpay (i.e. Gordon?)
    -- Mentioned that David West changed the whole culture of the team and locker room this year
    -- Commended Danny for his toughness, especially during Game 6 against Miami
    -- Talked about how much Barbosa added, minus the last few games against Miami, but Bird liked his game

    Overall, pretty good info. I would expect the Pacers to look to sign their own guys in Hill, Roy, Lou, Fez (cheap), and maybe Barbosa. I think the interesting question will be what we do at the draft as I could see the Pacers making a deal to trade or package their pick for something.
    He also mentioned Jeff and Lance would be playing in summer league.

    I think when he talks about toughness on the 2nd team that could all be answered in the draft by getting O'Quinn, I think he fits what we are trying to do also.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    I'm very happy that it sounds like Bird is most likely staying. At the same time I'll be extremely disapointed if we're as passive in free agency as he indicates. This is our last chance to get better now, we don't need to worry so much about being able to re-sign someone 2 years from now if we never stand a chance at the title anyway. The personel that we have now will never evolve into title contenders, we need to make a move for that missing piece while we can.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not saying to blow the team up, but there is not doubt that our talent level needs to upgraded, and yes having a deep bench is a nice thing to have during the season but normally teams go 7 or 8 deep during the playoffs, so in reality you need to have 5 really good starters and 2 or 3 good to really good bench players.

    To me the easiest way to upgrade our bench is to upgrade our starters in the first place.
    Okay...that's valid....I see what you are suggesting....improve the bench by pushing some of the current Starters.....GH and PG....down to the 2nd unit.

    As D0NT_SH0OT_ME suggested in his other "Pacers Salary Cap situation" thread....even if we renounce everyone, re-sign GH/Hibbert, Inferno picks up his option, draft/sign the 26th pick and then make a $10 mil offer to Nash.....the Pacers would have roughly $6 to 7 mil to spend on anything

    I just don't think that we have the resources and assets to improve the Starting Lineup. Getting a Starting PG is obvious and something that can be done.......but beyond that.....how are we going to improve the Starting lineup that is better than what we have now?
    Last edited by CableKC; 05-30-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    He took a roster spot and money that could have been used else where. Foster's back keeping him from playing was not a surprise. The plan should have been to use the resources that were poured into Foster, into someone who could stay on the court.
    The Pacers had roster spots and money left over, even after Foster and everyone else was signed, and they still didn't use them.

    I don't have a problem at all with how the Foster situation turned out. Maybe we paid him a little too much but I saw the deal partially as a "thank you" type deal like Reggie got before he retired. Surely the front office knew there was a good chance Foster wouldn't make it through the year, but figured that he could play some playoff minutes and be a great locker room/practice presence. With the exception of the playoff minutes they probably got pretty close to what they bargained for.
    Last edited by rabid; 05-30-2012 at 03:11 PM. Reason: typos

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    For the entire series:
    Dirk +40 (-2, +13, +12, +7, +14, -4)
    Kidd +42 (-7, +1, +5, +12, +13, +18)
    Marion +28 (-9, +1, -1, -2, +21, +18)
    Chandler +40 (-2, +4, +4, +7, +14, +3)

    Stevenson -31 (-5, -5, -7, +6, -12, -8)
    Barea -24 (-6, -11, +3, -7, +14, -7)

    Terry +22 (0, +13, -6, +1, +1, +13)
    Peja -19 (-3, -7, -11, +2)
    Haywood -11 (-6, +5, -10)
    Cardinal +3 (-4, -3, -1, -7, +18)
    Mahinmi -10 (-6, -3, -1)


    Stevenson and Barea are like that because Stevenson started the first 3 games of the series, then Barea started for the last three.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...105310MIA.html
    I think is funny to see that the +/- stats are helping my argument thanks for posting it though

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It is easy to say in hindsight that re-signing Foster was a mistake. But I'm not using hindsight.

    I said it was a mistake before it ever happened. I said it was a mistake when it happened. That it turned out to be a mistake after it happened should not have come as a surprise to Bird, or anyone else.
    It's only a mistake if the sole purpose of the signing was for him to play in the playoffs, or if the signing prevented us from doing something else. I don't think either of those was true actually (we had more $ and roster spots that we did not use). In hindsight it looks like the Pacers were mostly happy with what they got out of the deal, even with the retirement.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    It's only a mistake if the sole purpose of the signing was for him to play in the playoffs, or if the signing prevented us from doing something else. I don't think either of those was true actually (we had more $ and roster spots that we did not use). In hindsight it looks like the Pacers were mostly happy with what they got out of the deal, even with the retirement.
    How the Pacers are going to be happy to pay 3mil for a guy not to play? What kind of thinking is that?

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The only reason they felt they didn't have to sign someone else, was because they re-signed Foster. Blunder.
    Just because you keep repeating that does not make it true. You're entitled to your opinion but it's also valid to believe that our guys got a big benefit from Foster's presence in the locker room and on the practice court. Other than David West he was the most respected veteran voice on the team, at least if you believe the comments of the players and coaching staff throughout the season.

    We had roster spots left over, $ left over and plenty of minutes for the bigs.

    You say 'blunder,' others feel differently. Have to agree to disagree here.
    Last edited by rabid; 05-30-2012 at 03:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    I would think we should look into a deal surrounding Hansborough...
    If we trade Hansbrough, what's going to happen to our oh-so-effective "drunk bouncer offense" in the paint?
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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think is funny to see that the +/- stats are helping my argument thanks for posting it though
    You said that the Pacers starters were a bigger problem than the Pacers bench. How does the Mavs +/- stat prove your point?

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    Just because you keep repeating that does not make it true. You're entitled to your opinion but it's also valid to believe that our guys got a big benefit from Foster's presence in the locker room and on the practice court. Other than David West he was the most respected veteran voice on the team, at least if you believe the comments of the players and coaching staff throughout the season.

    We had roster spots left over, $ left over and plenty of minutes for the bigs.

    You say 'blunder,' others feel differently. Have to agree to disagree here.
    I'm pretty sure Foster was expending time in the hospital, rehab or at his house resting after having surgery, you are overrating him as a mentor, I don't even think he was traveling with the team.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Okay...that's valid....I see what you are suggesting....improve the bench by pushing some of the current Starters.....GH and PG....down to the 2nd unit.

    As D0NT_SH0OT_ME suggested in his other "Pacers Salary Cap situation" thread....even if we renounce everyone, re-sign GH/Hibbert, Inferno picks up his option, draft/sign the 26th pick and then make a $10 mil offer to Nash.....the Pacers would have roughly $6 to 7 mil to spend on anything

    I just don't think that we have the resources and assets to improve the Starting Lineup. Getting a Starting PG is obvious and something that can be done.......but beyond that.....how are we going to improve the Starting lineup that is better than what we have now?

    This. Outside of getting a great starting PG what else can we upgrade in FA???

    PG, DG, West, and Hibbert are very good starters and I would venture to say Hibbert and PG are just going to keep improving, they have seemed to every year. Outside of grabbing a big upgrade at PG all we need to do is improve the bench. Pushing George Hill to the bench is a huge upgrade, trading off Collison for something will help, and adding some more scoring/shot blocking(Samuel Dalembert?) on the bench will be an upgrade.

    When you have a terrific bench, your starters can rest. When your starters rest, they play better. It's not a hard concept. Every team in the league tries to improve their bench because it improves your entire team.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You said that the Pacers starters were a bigger problem than the Pacers bench. How does the Mavs +/- stat prove your point?
    Well the numbers show that the Mavs starters are pretty much the ones that won the championship, that's my point, if our starters are better we don't need to worry about what our bench is doing, yeah is nice to have it all but as the Mavs show you only need one or two players to help you(Varea,Terry) not a whole unit of bench players as Larry Bird and many of you guys here think.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure Foster was expending time in the hospital, rehab or at his house resting after having surgery, you are overrating him as a mentor, I don't even think he was traveling with the team.
    I'll pick on vnzla here because it's easy and terribly entertaining...

    The bolded. How can you possibly have any idea how big of an impact Foster was as a mentor? That is just a horse **** comment you threw in there in an ill-fated attempt to strengthen your position.

    I don't get why we spend so much time on this board discussing Foster. Of course the front office knew he had back trouble--he's had back trouble for the past half decade. It's nothing new. My guess is they resigned him in the hopes that he could be available for the playoffs. Anything he could give us in the regular season was icing on the cake. We had the cap space, there weren't a ton of other options on the market at the time, and the man has engrained himself in the organization over the course of his career. I'm sure if the front office were faced with this situation again (without the benefit of hindsight), they would play it the exact same way.

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Well the numbers show that the Mavs starters are pretty much the ones that won the championship, that's my point, if our starters are better we don't need to worry about what our bench is doing, yeah is nice to have it all but as the Mavs show you only need one or two players to help you(Varea,Terry) not a whole unit of bench players as Larry Bird and many of you guys here think.

    You cannot be serious. The starters were more of the problem than the bench, because the starters didn't outscore the heat by enough to overcome the fact that the bench was outscored.

    Are you a politician with that type of spin?

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    Default Re: Bird press conference

    Please sign Nash. That is all

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