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Thread: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

  1. #51

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Techniquely the off season started for the Pacers the second after the loss. There are 25 teams now in their off season who could make trades, but it never happens until draft time.

    It's also not going to happen until Bird makes his decision to stay or go. If Bird stays, I'm sure he has players he's interested acquiring for the Pacers. W/o a doubt, he's been thinking of players to upgrade this team for some time. It'll be interesting to see who he has in mind. Hopefully, Chucker Crawford isn't one of them.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Which is why we might have to take the gamble on Gordon, because all the other teams in a really deep Eastern Conference are looking to improve. So we need to improve exponentially.
    Not sure that Gordon will be a exponential improvement, I think he has potential to be real good, but the price that he will cost might not be worth the gamble. Not only will we have to worry about his injury past, but we will then have to worry about money and resigning other people. I think this is something management is currently thinking about, I would not be surprised if they put a offer in for him, I just wonder how high they will go.
    Why so SERIOUS

  3. #53
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    In addition to a pure passing PG, it would be nice to get a shotblocking big on our bench. Outside of Hibbert, no one on our roster really protects the rim, and the likes of LeBron, Wade, and Rose aren't going to go away anytime soon.

    Also, I don't see anyway the Pacers let George Hill walk unless he gets an absolutely ridiculous offer, you don't give up someone like Kawhi Leonard for a one year rental.

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  5. #54
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Of course it doesn't mean anything but this stuff keeps getting thrown out there. From last night...

    Shaun Powell: Just saw Indy native Eric Gordon in the building. Evidently checking out where he's gonna play next season. Twitter
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  7. #55
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Gee wiz those of us who are against us signing Gordon need to be more vocal. The kid is great but simply cannot stay healthy.


    Carmel HS Class of 2011

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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    If we go into next season with Andre Miller as our starting point guard, I am not going to be pleased.
    I'm not going to be pleased either but like I said before Andre Miller has Larry Bird written all over him, he is an older veteran that he can get for 10mil a year for two years like West.

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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Yeah, I think Fes is going to be back:

    Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers

    As Larry Bird walked on the elevator to leave, he yelled "Love ya Fez" to @KyryloFesenko as Fesenko interviewed with http://Pacers.com.
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  11. #58

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    pacers have to get gordon. he can attack the rim like nobody else on the roster.

  12. #59

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    I think the core is much smaller than others think. Hibbert / West / George is a quality starting front court. IMO, you start there and add what you need to compliment them - a starting PG that can run an offense and feed the post, a SG that can attack the rim, and an athletic defensive big man that can backup both Roy and West. Everyone else - including Granger - is expendable.


    Thoughts / reasons:

    - I'm not an advocate of building a balanced, starless team. I've disagreed with the direction of the team for many, many years. I'm desperately afraid that the Pacers will never really challenge with the current group. They made great progress this year, but unless they can add Williams, I don't see enough talent to be a championship level team without major changes (more than I'm advocating now). After they pay a couple of their free agents, I'm afraid they will become the Atlanta Hawks. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what they can do about it at this point. My off season goals are based on maximizing this balanced type team- even though I really believe the foundation we have is "fools gold".

    -The team desperately needs a player that can attack the rim off the dribble. George's handle and passing is nowhere near dependable enough for SG, IMO. Will it improve? Of course. But it is several years away from being at even an average level for SG. It's not just an offseason away. I'm honestly not convinced he will ever get to the level he needs to be paired with Danny. They both like the jumper way to much for my taste. Paul is cheaper, younger, bigger, and more athletic than Danny - so the choice between the two is easy.

    - Neither Collison nor Hill are starting caliber PGs. Either would be fine as a backup. I'd prefer Hill, but this will likely be dictated by money.

    - Tyler is not what this team needs as a backup big, IMO. West and Hill provide enough post scoring, but neither is particularly mobile / athletic. That exposes the Pacers D in the PNR. Barring foul trouble, the team should always have one of those two players on the court. If you have one primary backup big he will play nearly as many minutes as the two starters. I think that is much more effective than having two mediocre backup bigs playing - often together.

    - If the team could land D Williams, an attacking SG becomes less of a priority. You could plug him in to the existing starting lineup and be set ( still need the 3rd big). I doubt that is a realistic option though.

    - It may seem like I'm advocating a DG for Gordon swap, but I'm not. I also wouldn't rule it out. Skill wise Gordon, IMO, is a better fit for the team than Danny. However, his injury history, possible salary demands, and RFA status make him a risky move. I have no problem with teams taking calculated risks. In fact I believe them absolutely necessary. There is just not enough info known yet to advocate that specific move.

    - For the bench, I'd prefer 3 versatile guys that regularly play instead or a "platoon" type system. I'd prefer to mix and match a couple bench players with the starters. Barring special circumstances, the pacers should have 2 - 3 starters on the floor at all times.

    - PG play becomes more critical on a balanced starless team, IMO. The pacers do not have the luxury of having exceptional individual efforts bail them out. IMO, the pacers struggles against the Heat are more related to their lack of true PG play than any other single factor. Someone to control the tempo and execute the offense is a must.
    Last edited by rm1369; 05-25-2012 at 03:53 PM.

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  14. #60
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    If we go for the likes of Williams as PG, I can see maybe a S&T involving Hill. I just don't see the Nets letting him walk like that (he is restricted, right?). We do need a more passing-oriented PG badly.


  15. #61
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Our bench which I never thought was that good this season needs an upgrade as well. Everytime someone suggested the Pacers were so deep, I felt like screaming. Pacers are balanced in their starting 5, but they aren't that deep.

    I am at a loss to explain Tyler, I am not ready to give up on him, but he needs to regroup this summer and come back better next year. The strange thing is or perhaps the troubling thing is he has not defined his game yet. He plays hard, which is a very important skill, talent, trait, but he needs more game than that otherwise he'll be a 15-20 minute a game player of the bench
    Completely agree with both of your points.

    As far as our bench goes, they aren't very deep. When I think of the "depth" of our bench, the only thing I think about is how many bodies we have to throw at the other team. How talented those bodies are, however, is a different story.

    In the case of Tyler, this next year is him do-or-die year in my opinion. If he can't make a consistent contribution next year, we need to consider bringing in other people (which I already think we need to consider) and sliding him back in the rotation. Sometimes he looks great, and other times he looks completely dazed and confused out there.

    So needless to say, in addition to upgrading our second unit front court, we also need a starting PG who will do something with our offense. I feel like a lot of the time people just pass the ball around hoping and praying that someone else will take a shot. we dribble the ball out for 20 seconds and then hope something magical will happen in the last 4. We have pieces who are capable of putting up points, we just need someone to facilitate and orchestrate it.

  16. #62

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    Assuming the likely scenario we don't land D Will, yay or nay to Eric Gordon?
    I'd still roll the dice. We need a player like him badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I think the core is much smaller than others think. Hibbert / West / George is a quality starting front court. IMO, you start there and add what you need to compliment them - a starting PG that can run an offense and feed the post, a SG that can attack the rim, and an athletic defensive big man that can backup both Roy and West. Everyone else - including Granger - is expendable.


    Thoughts / reasons:

    - I'm not an advocate of building a balanced, starless team. I've disagreed with the direction of the team for many, many years. I'm desperately afraid that the Pacers will never really challenge with the current group. They made great progress this year, but unless they can add Williams, I don't see enough talent to be a championship level team without major changes (more than I'm advocating now). After they pay a couple of their free agents, I'm afraid they will become the Atlanta Hawks. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what they can do about it at this point. My off season goals are based on maximizing this balanced type team- even though I really believe the foundation we have is "fools gold".

    -The team desperately needs a player that can attack the rim off the dribble. George's handle and passing is nowhere near dependable enough for SG, IMO. Will it improve? Of course. But it is several years away from being at even an average level for SG. It's not just an offseason away. I'm honestly not convinced he will ever get to the level he needs to be paired with Danny. They both like the jumper way to much for my taste. Paul is cheaper, younger, bigger, and more athletic than Danny - so the choice between the two is easy.

    - Neither Collison nor Hill are starting caliber PGs. Either would be fine as a backup. I'd prefer Hill, but this will likely be dictated by money.

    - Tyler is not what this team needs as a backup big, IMO. West and Hill provide enough post scoring, but neither is particularly mobile / athletic. That exposes the Pacers D in the PNR. Barring foul trouble, the team should always have one of those two players on the court. If you have one primary backup big he will play nearly as many minutes as the two starters. I think that is much more effective than having two mediocre backup bigs playing - often together.

    - If the team could land D Williams, an attacking SG becomes less of a priority. You could plug him in to the existing starting lineup and be set ( still need the 3rd big). I doubt that is a realistic option though.

    - It may seem like I'm advocating a DG for Gordon swap, but I'm not. I also wouldn't rule it out. Skill wise Gordon, IMO, is a better fit for the team than Danny. However, his injury history, possible salary demands, and RFA status make him a risky move. I have no problem with teams taking calculated risks. In fact I believe them absolutely necessary. There is just not enough info known yet to advocate that specific move.

    - For the bench, I'd prefer 3 versatile guys that regularly play instead or a "platoon" type system. I'd prefer to mix and match a couple bench players with the starters. Barring special circumstances, the pacers should have 2 - 3 starters on the floor at all times.

    - PG play becomes more critical on a balanced starless team, IMO. The pacers do not have the luxury of having exceptional individual efforts bail them out. IMO, the pacers struggles against the Heat are more related to their lack of true PG play than any other single factor. Someone to control the tempo and execute the offense is a must.
    My thoughts exactly. Great post

  17. #63
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mrknowname View Post
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    pacers have to get gordon. he can attack the rim like nobody else on the roster.
    PG should be able to soon, when he gets his dribbling better and gains some aggressiveness, I think the only way Gordon makes it here for me is if he can also play the 1 and I don't see that happening.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  19. #64

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    PG should be able to soon, when he gets his dribbling better and gains some aggressiveness, I think the only way Gordon makes it here for me is if he can also play the 1 and I don't see that happening.
    who knows, pg may develop neither

    gordon already has both attributes and isn't that much older

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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    No. We stick with our current model. No going after a superstar unless they want to come here. Keep all our players under contract. Sign Hibbert and Hill. Sign Nash. Sign #26 pick. Sign MLE player or combination of players. Sign Fez and have him and Paul George workout with Hibbert.

    Nash/Collison
    George/ Hill/ Lance
    Granger/ FA or #26 and/or Jones
    West/ Hans/ #26?
    Hibbert/ FA

  21. #66
    Member indyman37's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Insider Help? Let's get ESPN's take: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...indiana-pacers

  22. #67
    SAVE OUR PACERS Dr. house's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    let's say a hot commodity in the draft like a Jared Sullinger goes in to free fall mode do you trade up? or you go after safe guys like a Draymond Green who does everything right on the floor?

    also i am not on the we must get Eric Gordon bandwagon
    Last edited by Dr. house; 05-25-2012 at 06:03 PM.

  23. #68

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    I'd like Gordon a lot. He is a phenomenal talent, I think he's a lot closer to a star than anybody else on our team. Also our attendance would boost tremendously with him. Only question is how do you fit George/Gordon/Granger? I wouldn't be completely against having PG off the bench...

  24. #69
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    If it was not for the health thing thing I would be a lot more open
    Why so SERIOUS

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  26. #70

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    I'd like Gordon a lot. He is a phenomenal talent, I think he's a lot closer to a star than anybody else on our team. Also our attendance would boost tremendously with him. Only question is how do you fit George/Gordon/Granger? I wouldn't be completely against having PG off the bench...
    If the Pacers decide to go after Gordon it nearly has to involve trading DG - either to NO, as part of a three-way, or as a separate deal to balance / consolidate the talent on the team.

  27. #71

    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    PG -Nash or DWill. I f we cant get either, then Dragic. Dragic is the type of PG we need one who has energy, can drive past a defender and dish, or just hit an open shot. Re-sign Collison or Hill, whichever is cheaper.

    SG - Pick up Eric Gordon, trade Granger. DJones decent backup, but draft another who can play sg/sf.

    SF - George's natural position.

    PF - Keep West. I've lost condfidence in Hansbrough though.

    C - Hibbert and Fez.

  28. #72
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    If the Pacers decide to go after Gordon it nearly has to involve trading DG - either to NO, as part of a three-way, or as a separate deal to balance / consolidate the talent on the team.
    ugh, the idea of trading Danny.....just makes me feel terrible. I maintain that if you bring in a great point guard alot of Danny's short comings will disappear.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  29. #73
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Someone posted this on Indycornrows I haven't read this but should be a nice read

    http://asubstituteforwar.com/2012/05...silly-reasons/

    Deron Williams and the Indiana Pacers: A match made in heaven that is unlikely to happen due to silly reasons

    Since Dwight Howard picked up his player option with the Orlando Magic, Deron Williams has been the big free agent prize of this summer. He’s an elite talent with size and explosiveness, elite playmaking and feel for the game and an outside shot – easily a top 5 player at the PG position. Deron has had a turbulent handful of seasons since a fed up Utah Jazz sent him to the NBA’s version of Siberia in the New Jersey Nets, then on the verge of a team-up with Dwight Howard, a W.T.F. move from his Dwightness by picking up next season’s player option left Deron without the assurance he’ll have Howard if he resigns with the Nets this year. Furthermore the “other option”, the Dallas Mavericks, certainly don’t look like a plum deal. Dirk Nowitzki may be a 2nd star, but he just finished his 14th season which is as far as the primes of even the most longevity friendly stars go and both he and the Mavericks certainly didn’t look like themselves this year. The Mavericks also have next to no long term, young talent to surround Deron Williams with. The Mavericks are not a great long term situation for Deron. Their appeal likes with Marc Cuban’s strength as an owner/GM – But is that enough?

    The truth is there’s a perfect situation for Deron Williams out there – and they have the capspace enough to sign him this summer. It’s the Indiana Pacers. The Pacers are in the 2nd round after a 50 W+ equivalent season and have a loaded group of talented forwards in Danny Granger, Paul George, David West, Tyler Hansbrough and Roy Hibbert. The biggest thing holding them back is the lack of a finger to pull the trigger on that gun – the backcourt creating talent to make it all come together. If they made a stat comparing PG production to replacement level, they might as well call it “Wins over Darren Collision” – Oh and Collision is their starting point. The Pacers have the frontcourt offense and defensive talent that a star guard would likely make them contenders. Who could be a better fit than Deron Williams? The Pacers would be the perfect supporting cast for him. Granger gives him a secondary perimeter scorer, George hits open 3s and defends at an elite rate, he can play the pick and pop/roll game with David West, and Hibbert anchors the defense and scores in the post. It’s a team with both the talent level and fit to contend for an NBA title year in and year out.

    Why is it unlikely Deron signs with the Pacers? Because Indiana isn’t a sexy enough market. That’s essentially what it comes down to. Deron wants the lights and the stardom that Indianapolis can’t provide and it seems like this was the incentive to tell Utah he’s likely on the way out, leading them to trade him early.

    If true, Deron is misguided about what creates stars. Is Kevin Durant not a superstar because he plays in Oklahoma City? Was Tim Duncan not a superstar because he was in San Antonio? Even directly comparing it to Indiana, Reggie Miller’s profile has not suffered by playing in Indiana. In fact if anything the media love for him has overshot Miller’s actual caliber of play and reputation in his time.

    What creates stars, Deron Williams, is winning games and making deep playoff runs. In particular, if a player is the outright alpha dog and best guy on a title contender, he will be crowned by the media. Players are first and foremost judged historically by their MVP/All-NBA accolades, and then whether they led a team to a title or the Finals. That’s what truly changes the face of a career. Deron Williams has a chance to win an NBA MVP if he signs in Indiana. With him, one of these years the Pacers could end up with the best record in the East and from now on the voters will be looking for a way to not give to Lebron. Furthermore there’s a big difference between the Indiana Pacers franchise and say, the Sacramento Kings. The Pacers have a rich history going back 40 years to the ABA champion teams, they have the nickname of one of the meccas of basketball. At times Indiana has loved basketball more than any other place. When the Indiana Hoosiers revitilized their program this year with a great college season, they were a huge national story. You can be big in Indiana. A star that brings that historic franchise to say, the top seed in the league, will get love from the media. Also one has to consider that Deron Williams joining the Pacers and making them elite can make them a media favorite market. In the NFL the Indianapolis Colts are one of the populist teams and national TV favorites. Why did this happen? Because Peyton Manning transformed the face of the franchise by turning it into a behemoth and winner. Williams can make the Pacers a star market by being there.

    Furthermore if I was an NBA player I would be as concerned with my legacy from fans as much as from the neutral casual media. What I would want is a place where I go down in history forever. Where I am the greatest that franchise has seen and they build a statue of me. If Deron Williams won the Pacers their first NBA title he would become immortal. He would mean as much as a sports hero can. On the other hand in Dallas he would likely always be 2nd to Dirk Nowitzki in legacy, even if he brought them another title. If he teamed up with Dwight Howard in Brooklyn he would be 2nd to Howard in stardom, the Nets still would be 2nd place to the Knicks in media play, and the New York area fans have had such a rich history of champions with the Yankees, Giants, Rangers, etc. that it’d be difficult for Deron to truly be immortalized.

    The feeling I get with Deron Williams is that he wants his talents to be appreciated. He has been in the shadow of Chris Paul his entire career and has never been thrown in the conversation of top 5 players. Well Deron, the biggest way to get appreciated by the media is to win. The media favors the players on winning teams and shuns the ones on losing teams. By the media’s eyes, once a player starts winning and contending for a title, he’s now a better player and more worthy of the hype. There are no more powerful words for the media than “He’s a winner” and “He’s a loser”. Leading an elite team in Indiana will do more for the Deron Williams legacy than leading a mediocore one in Brooklyn.”. An elite Deron Williams led Pacers team would put him in the “He’s a winner” category, the way Chris Paul and Derrick Rose get called one. Especially considering it’d be a decision made solely to win.

    Deron Williams is perfect for the Pacers – They’re a star PG away from contending and that’s what Williams provides. Likewise the Pacers are perfect for him because it legitimizes his career and puts his ceiling at “MVP and Best Player on a Title team” by giving him the elite supporting cast needed, while he remains the alpha dog. Success and accolades are what truly makes stars, not the size of a market. The Pacers talent and needs and Williams free agency lines up just perfectly for him to make this move. Is playing in a bigger city really worth casting off a situation that perfect? I suppose so.
    Last edited by PacersRule; 05-25-2012 at 09:41 PM.

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  31. #74
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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    With Boston about to rebuild, I wonder what they would think about Collison, Hans, and #26 for Rondo? They tried to trade Ray Allen for Hans and our 1st round pick.

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    Default Re: The Official Off-season 2012 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    With Boston about to rebuild, I wonder what they would think about Collison, Hans, and #26 for Rondo? They tried to trade Ray Allen for Hans and our 1st round pick.
    I hope you're not serious...would you do that trade if you're the celtics GM?

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