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Thread: Complexity: Darren Collison

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Collison has a history of winning from UCLA, Hill has a history of winning from San Antonio. If we keep winning and they both keep getting playing time, then there won't be any issue. I don't see any reason they both can't co-exist til at least the end of DC's rookie deal next season.

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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think we need to forget about signing DWill or any superstar PG, and focus on finding a good true PG. It will make the starters better, the bench better, and make it easier to re-sign key players.
    Why is it so important we finde a true PG? Our starting SG can't shoot. Finding a true SG is priority. Eric Gordon would be an ideal target

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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Sorry if I am mistaken (I wasn't born/to young to follow basketball when he played), but wasn't Isiah Thomas considered a superstar? IMO the Chauncey Billups team is a better comparison, as truly no one on that team is considered a superstar, or at the very least not on Thomas' level of play even if he was not a "superstar." With that said your general sentiment, is valid and interesting...
    You are exactly right. I messed up my Piston teams.

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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    if you are saying sign dwill and pay for it be cutting/not resigning danny and dwest. then you could do that. not sure it makes the team better, but you could do that. danny and dwest are the guys playing the best. getting rid of your two best players is not usually a good plan.
    Yea but, if Deron is on our team he is the best player. You are really not sure if Deron instead of West makes us better? I definitely think it does. Deron instead of Danny is closer, but I still think it would make us better...

    You don't have to worry about the starting 5 with Williams being over $58 million until it is time to resign Paul in 2014 and even in 2014 it is still possible to keep all 5 of them...

    -Deron would in 2014 make about $18 million
    -Hibbert could be resigned in 2012 for about $12 million
    -West could be resigned in 2013 for about $8 million
    -Danny could be resigned in 2014 for about $11 million
    -George could be resigned in 2014 for about $11 million

    That comes out to $60 million, and I would think the cap will rise to above $58 million in future years. Odviously the four resigned players numbers are probably on the lower side of the players value, but if we sign Deron and are legit title contenders don't you think they would be willing to take a little less. As it is, all four of the contracts I suggested, really aren't even that rediculous. West and Granger are both gonna be older, so a small pay cut (about 2 million for both) is not crazy. I believe Roy would be willing to sign to a reasonable contract to stay here, and sure, PG might skyrocket his value to well over $11 million, but he also might not. He, like Roy, might also be willing to stay for slightly less then his worth. It seems like he and Roy are close, and we will probably be a title contender, so there is definitely some incentives to stay...

  6. #55

    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Including all the cap holds and with the relatively safe assumption that Dahntay picks up his option, we're currently about $22 million under the 2012-2013 cap if it does not increase. Of course, the likelihood of an cap increase is very good (it cannot go below this year's $58+ million cap under any circumstance) but let's pretend it stays flat. What makes it so we could not offer somebody the max this offseason?
    Where are you getting that figure from? ShampSports has it as 46.59 million (renouncing Admunson and Price but including Dahntay and Stephenson's salaries along with Hibbert and Hill's cap holds). Hoopshype doesn't actually list the cap holds, but it would be at least 42.4 million if their cap holds were the amount of their qualifying offer, which is the minimum the cap hold could possibly be. It's interesting to see how hard it is to get accurate info for a major sports league though, and since the sites disagree it's hard to pin down an exact figure of the Pacers committed cap. It seems like it would have to be more than 36 million though.

  7. #56

    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    yes, it is possible. but what you've given as example isn't going to happen. the pacers have 4 big contract guys. since paul george is one of them and still on his rookie scale, they can use his money for other things for a couple of years. but they are only going to keep 4 max contract guys.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Yea but, if Deron is on our team he is the best player. You are really not sure if Deron instead of West makes us better? I definitely think it does. Deron instead of Danny is closer, but I still think it would make us better...

    You don't have to worry about the starting 5 with Williams being over $58 million until it is time to resign Paul in 2014 and even in 2014 it is still possible to keep all 5 of them...

    -Deron would in 2014 make about $18 million
    -Hibbert could be resigned in 2012 for about $12 million
    -West could be resigned in 2013 for about $8 million
    -Danny could be resigned in 2014 for about $11 million
    -George could be resigned in 2014 for about $11 million

    That comes out to $60 million, and I would think the cap will rise to above $58 million in future years. Odviously the four resigned players numbers are probably on the lower side of the players value, but if we sign Deron and are legit title contenders don't you think they would be willing to take a little less. As it is, all four of the contracts I suggested, really aren't even that rediculous. West and Granger are both gonna be older, so a small pay cut (about 2 million for both) is not crazy. I believe Roy would be willing to sign to a reasonable contract to stay here, and sure, PG might skyrocket his value to well over $11 million, but he also might not. He, like Roy, might also be willing to stay for slightly less then his worth. It seems like he and Roy are close, and we will probably be a title contender, so there is definitely some incentives to stay...

  8. #57
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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    yes, it is possible. but what you've given as example isn't going to happen. the pacers have 4 big contract guys. since paul george is one of them and still on his rookie scale, they can use his money for other things for a couple of years. but they are only going to keep 4 max contract guys.
    I agree, they aren't gonna keep 5 max contracts, but my point was that the 4 starters not named Deron, could all sign for less then the max. Is it unlikely to happen? Yes, but could it happen? I think it could, especially considering all the guys on our team seem pretty loyal and commited to winning...
    Last edited by TheDavisBrothers; 05-07-2012 at 08:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    If there's any way DWill signs with us, you have to do it. Other than Roy, who on our team is top 5 at their position? You make DWill and Roy your focal points, and Paul George if he develops like we want him to. We talk about PG24's potential being Tracy McGrady. Think about that. If PG24 hits that level, Roy can still improve, and DWill maintains his level of play - that's potentially 3 of our 5 starters being top-5 at their positions. If that happens, the other starters and bench guys aren't as critical as they are right now.

    I mean, GH3 has been great for most of the season, but I think while a lot of people criticize Collison's inconsistency, they overlook Hill's. I've been a DC fan all along, but it's pretty evident now that unless some magical light bulb goes on for him, he won't be the answer we hoped for. Barbosa has been a nice addition, but he is replaceable. Same goes for Lou, Hans, Inferno, and the rest. I love the current team as much as anyone, and I will always think of all of them fondly. But face it, when you might have a shot at a top-5 player at any position, you have to jump on it and let the rest shake out how it will.

    Also, if Lance is really developing well, maybe he's ready to step in and become that 6th-man. He must have little to no value around the NBA, so re-signing him cheap won't be hard. If that's the case, then Hill and Barbosa can go, sign DWill, and keep DC as a great backup until his contract runs out.
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    Default Re: Complexity: Darren Collison

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Our starting SG can't shoot.


    You're referring to Paul George?

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