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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    It’s going to have to be very brief tonight due to a very hectic schedule so let me apologize for that up front.

    Before I get to the grades there are really a couple of things that want to talk about and each one of them is something that I hated coming into the series and still for the most part hate but I will give some begrudging respect to Glenn Davis & Stan Van Gundy.

    Stan has his team ready to play and he does not project that they are the underdog at all. In fact if you listen to him in the post game he sounds like a higher seed that lost to a lower one. Good for him.

    I hate his reliance on the stupid perimeter based offense that he uses but I will credit him for switching to the pick and roll far more often in the post season. I still can’t stand the guy but I’ll say this, he is slightly a better coach than I want to admit he is and certainly he is better than Satan ever was.

    As to Glenn Davis I just have to say how much I actually admire the work he is doing in this series and not because of how he is out playing Roy (which he is) but the fact that the guy has played 40 min. the first game and 38 min. this game. First let’s not forget he just rolled his ankle last week and while it wasn’t a high ankle sprain or anything it still caused him to miss a couple of games and was questionable for our games and second of all, well frankly he is just not in the shape that most NBA players are in even big guys. But until the second half of this game he has never shown any sign of fatigue or lack of energy on the floor. He did wear down in the second half, some of that was Tyler but some of it I think was just playing so much without a break.

    While I’m giving out credit I’ll give Frank a lot of credit as well. He stopped the Hockey Line substitutions this game and mainly stuck with the starters and filtered in subs as needed. The regular season was a good idea to use a big rotation and there will still be times when he can play a deep bench in the playoffs but I think he has got to stop platooning out the starters because in both game they have built a double digit lead only to see the bench come in and squander it away. In the second half he stopped doing that.

    I have a feeling that the reason they were in the locker room so long at the half was because I bet West was telling Frank to let him play more min and that he would produce. Well he played 41 min. this game and he definitely produced.

    Also I’ll talk about him in his grades but I think it really needs to be said more than once and highlighted. Tyler Hansbrough changed the complexion of that game. His energy and physicality finally wore Davis down in the second half and he defended the pick and roll better than any big man has on our team since Jeff Foster played. The stats will NOT back this up, on paper he had a lousy game (other than steals) but simply stated there was no Pacer more valuable during the second half than he was.

    Ok let’s hit the grades.

    David West: A First half I wasn’t as thrilled with him as you would expect given that I am giving him an A, but frankly I thought he let some balls go by that I thought he could have gotten to and let Anderson rebound more than I thought he should have. However the second half was all his. Anderson actually fouled out trying to guard him and he really controlled the boards. His 10 free throw attempts were huge but here is the surprising stat of the night, he led us in assists. Now that doesn’t say as much about him as it does our overall offense but you have to give him credit for having a great overall game.

    Danny Granger: C+ The good news is he still hasn’t had a good game yet. Look there is no other way to say this, sitting out that week was just a giant colossal mistake. His rhythm is off and he can’t hit water from a boat. But he still is battling and came up with a huge offensive rebound off of a missed free throw that led to a 3 point shot. Defense has been ok but it’s just so hard to gauge that this series because of the way they make you scramble on the damn PnR. If he can ever get going Orlando will be buried.

    Roy Hibbert: C Good rebounding, good interior defense, **** poor offensive positioning and frankly just getting out hustled by Davis. I’m going to say something once and I’ll never say it again and I will deny later than I ever said it. I would recommend that Roy flop once or twice when Davis drives the paint just to see if the refs. would give him the call. God knows Anderson flopped big time to draw Roy’s 4th foul. But I wonder if maybe he couldn’t get the refs to give him the call due to Davis size? Either way I really really really would like to see him just once establish deep low post position to see what he could do.

    Paul George: B Did a much better job of chasing Richardson around tonight and did a very good job of hitting the shots he took including that one fade away as the shot clock expired. But I liked the fact that he went to the rim a few times and even drew some fouls more. Of course hitting 100% of his free throws was much appreciated.

    George Hill: A Thank God. He finally was able to stay with Nelson in the second half and more importantly he made it so Nelson had to spend some energy guarding him. One assist is not acceptable but getting to the line 6 times and hitting 5 of those certainly is. But his defense in the second half was outstanding and a very nice comeback game for him.

    Leandro Barbosa: C+ Like Danny he really hasn’t had a good game yet either. Now don’t get me wrong he really had a couple of good drives to the basket but he still has not found his shot yet either and was 0-5 from the 3 point line tonight. He was decent on defense and on a couple of jump balls he saved the possessions. Like Danny once he has a good game from the bench I think we can bury Orlando in a game.

    Tyler Hansbrough: A+ Look I don’t throw that out there lightly, in fact I really don’t want to because if you’re a power forward and you play 18 min. and don’t even accidently grab a rebound I think you have failed. But I can not deny that he totally changed the game when he came in and totally disrupted the Orlando front line but unlike other times when he comes in and scores off of wild shots or draws fouls tonight he did it with defense. Defense and hustle. Now it could just be that Davis was already physically drained but it doesn’t really matter as Tyler did what he had to do. I was just stunned at how well he defended the pick and roll. He was better than Lou at it tonight.

    Lou Amundson: C- Not really one of Lou’s better outings. You’d think he’d match up a little better vs. Davis than he has so far but it just hasn’t worked out that way.

    Darren Collison: C- Didn’t do much while he was out there tonight. Still kept Nelson in front of him for the most part which just makes me question why the hell he didn’t do that all year long, but better late than never I guess.

    Ok we’ve got this tied up and we really truly need to go to Orlando and just stomp on them Wednesday.

    Also it really needs mentioned that the crowd has been absolutely out of its mind good in both of these playoff games.

    At one point in the 3rd we were as loud as any arena in the NBA. I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again we have always had a very large group of die hards, I think we have one of the larger groups in the NBA. But it has always been the casuals that we have problems with, well they aren’t a problem now. That place was packed and the crowd was outstanding.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Worth staying up till 4:00 AM to be the first to read this. Great work as always, Peck.


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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Well I was not half as impressed with Tyler as you (of course I can't be either) I personally think he sets better screens for Orlando than they themselves could and he did that on at least 4 occassions.

    I am starting to crinch whenever T gets the ball and I consider us lucky his pokes were not called as a foul, speaking of which;

    If Baby G keeps getting away with the 2-handed shoving of Roy, his "wrapping" of Roy to prevent him getting the ball and his parking in the 3(0)-second area we will not see Roy in full unless he starts falling over at the right moment meaning not when he is shoved/pushed/kicked to the ground but when he feels 2 hands on him.

    It was bad the 1st game, it was worse the 2nd and still he has position several times in the low paint but simply does not get the ball because the guard with the ball has no clue how to get it to him.
    Stil the constant double-team allows a shooter to be open all the time, to bad we can not up our shooting percentage (yet).
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Nice job, Peck.

    I want to piggy back a thought.

    Ryan Anderson should have a huge target on his back defensively, every moment of every game. There isn't one player in the Pacers line up that he can guard, without letting them score, fouling, or a double team. They need to punish him the rest of the series.

    Play fast, up tempo. Orlando, I think, is conditioned to march it up, dump it in to Howard, lets run these guys in the ground. You still pound it inside, but play fast, don't let them catch their breaths. Fat Baby can not play at a fast pace, he can not keep up with frenetic Hansbrough.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    David West was without a doubt the MVP of game #2. I know his shooting % wasn't very good, but his will, his desire, his approach to the game is what carried the Pacers through. He played the whole second half (until 25 seconds left) and he needs to play as many minutes as he physically can. Perhaps the best compliment a player can be given is this, "when he isn't on the floor the team suffers"

    We need to face the fact that Big Baby defends Roy really well, he is able to keep Roy from getting decent position with his strength and lower center of gravity.

    I do not expect Roy to be a major scoring factor in this series at all.

    I agree, Tyler played rather well and he defends Big Baby better than anyone else we have on the team
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 05-01-2012 at 10:09 AM.

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    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    I totally agree with your assessment of Hansbrough's effect on the game last night. I texted my brother during the 2nd half that I thought we might be seeing much more of Hans vs Davis for the rest of this series. Davis wears Hibbert down with his low center of gravity and strong legs. Hansbrough can match Davis in that regard and was much more effective in keeping Davis under control (can't believe I'm even saying that, but Davis was a definite force in Game 1 and played well in Game 2, too).

    Give Hibbert shorter stretches of time on the court, then give more minutes to Hansbrough to defend Davis.

    Nice to see PG assert himself more last night. He seems to easing himself into this series, but needs to build on last night and continue to make things happen.

    Good stuff.

    Oh, and do you think Hill was more than a little bit peaved that he wasn't in at the end of Game 1? I think he proved his point last night.
    Last edited by A-Train; 05-01-2012 at 08:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Always enjoy your posts Peck.

    My quick thoughts, West has been the best player, by a long ways, for the Pacers this series, but Hans has been consistent and our second best contributor.

    When Hill is playing well he has such a natural feel for the game it's a joy to watch.

    Hibbert seems to be getting worn down quickly. Is it from chasing Davis?

    Great win last night, I like the small ball with Hans and West (mainly, keep West playing!), DC and the second unit on offense has looked awful. Til Wednesday.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Has anyone noticed that Davis gives a 2 handed shove every time he sets a pick?

    I know players do stuff like that in the NBA and get away with it, but usually you see it happen when they are late or outweighed. Davis is doing it every single pick and I can't believe its not being called since he does it so regularly.

    And though I loathe players complaining to the officials, they're not going to call Davis for putting both hands in Roy's back until Roy or Vogel go to them and tell them to start calling it. They're giving that to Davis because of the size disadvantage.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Area 55 and the Pep Band were outstanding. They were the primary reason the crowd was pumped up when it was, in fact, pumped up.

    David West is now showing why he was brought here. Without him, the Pacers are down 0-2 and looking at a likely sweep against a better coached and more mature Orlando squad that has nothing to lose and something to prove to the world - ie that they do NOT need Howard to be competitive. He is the only player that the Magic do not have an answer for at this point in the absence of quality team play.

    If the Pacers wish to progress, a passing game MUST be installed as a primary offensive attack. When they bothered to run offenses designed to make the Magic work defensively, the Pacers looked as dominant as they should look against the Magic. Otherwise, the lack of structure and cohesion continued to hurt the Pacers this game, and allowed the Magic to hang around longer than they otherwise should have, and rendered Roy all but useless with respect to scoring (though it was another good rebounding effort from him).

    Pacers in 6 still seems to be about right, but it will be tough to get 2 in Orlando at this rate.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    40 minutes in game 1 and 38 in game 2 for Davis. This guy has to be worn out by now. He's got a bum ankle. It can't be feeling that great today.

  17. #11

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Good post. Hill, George, West REALLY stepped up. Amundson has been brutal so far this series. Pacers really missing Foster, might need to explore Fez.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    interesting take on tyler. not what i saw at all. funny how different people can watch the same game and see different things.

    tyler was ok. he did what he does, nice aggression, ok shooting, still undersized inside. in fact he played so good that frank vogel went with the small lineup in the 4th instead of playing tyler.

    danny played just as well, if not better at the 4 as tyler. that made space for leandro and the pacers are able to score off of almost any double.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    One of my favorite moments from last night.....George Hill made that 3 to put us up nine and BankersLife Fieldhouse went INSANE!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    We need to wear out Davis. He should be out of gas by game 5 if we throw Hansbrough at him and beat him up after playing 40 minutes a game at his size and with his ankle.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Tyler had a good 2nd half, but he was also the primary reason we lost the lead so quickly in the first half. The dude just does not rebound, and was leaving his man to help out on defense. Orlando got a ton of rebounds in the first half. Infact my fiance' called right when he entered the game, she knew that Orlando was about to get a ton of rebounds on us and make a run.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    I would expect that all of their players, not just Davis, are getting worn down by now. I'm hoping to see us bring the hammer down for three games in a row and put this series away early.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Let me add, I thought the Pacers played a really poor first half, they were lucky they didn't trail by 15 points.

    I still don't have a good feel for this series, where it is going. Are the pacers going to gain control and win this thing pretty easily? I worry that in at least one of the next two games in Orlando the Magic will hit a ton of threes. Shoot like 14 of 29 and win that game.

    A win in game #3 would be huge, keep the pressure on the Magic. I tend to agree, that the magic looked a little worn down by the end of last nights game. So game #3 coming quickly here, is a chance for the pacers to put extra pressure on them Wednesday night - I think that should be an easier game for the pacers to win than Saturday
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 05-01-2012 at 10:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    From the start of this series I have been worried. We do not play well against good shooting teams, teams that rotate the ball on the perimeter, or good pick and roll teams.

    Orlando is all three of those, including a decent O-rebounding team. If Redick plays the same that he did in the first half, the 4th quarter would have been different.

    We were hungrier for the lose balls, back taps, and jump balls than Orlando. They came out flat and we didn't. But if we shoot better and Anderson does not, then this series is wrapped up.

    But we have to treat game 3 like we did in game 2.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Amazing crowd last night. Section 115 was a real joy. My friends and I bought 4 tickets that were split by stairs. 2 gracious individuals offered up their better seats to allow us to sit together. A big thumbs up to them.

    That was probably the best Pacers experience I've had at a game since the Indy/Detroit playoff games. After the game, Delaware was going nuts, partially thanks to my group. I had to lead a 9AM meeting with no voice. Great, great feel to that game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Tyler had a good 2nd half, but he was also the primary reason we lost the lead so quickly in the first half. The dude just does not rebound, and was leaving his man to help out on defense. Orlando got a ton of rebounds in the first half. Infact my fiance' called right when he entered the game, she knew that Orlando was about to get a ton of rebounds on us and make a run.
    This is exactly why I'm not calling for more min. from Tyler. Last night was lightning in a bottle IMO, I think over time Orlando would definately abuse him by outrebounding him.

    However for the second half he was perfect because he was filled with energy and Davis's tank was at 1/8 and Tyler made that quickly become fumes.

    Also while I totally agree with you about the rebounding, in fact it normally would make me vomit, last night he also did something that none of our other bigs have done this series and that is quckly defend the pick and roll. In fact that may be the best defense (that stretch during the 3rd) that I've ever seen him play.

    But no I think long term the best thing to do with Davis is run different looks at him and start with Roy. Frank can and should design some type of play to get Roy a better quicker look.


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    I think all it will take is to wear them out, like you saw lastnight they were dead tired halfway through, We got this Pacer fans....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    I think this team will come and go with George Hill. When he's great, the Pacers will more than likely win. When he's not, they'll more than likely lose.

    I think that is a good thing for us.

    I also think Tyler and PG deserve a lot of credit. David West has been our best player so far, but those two really shifted the momentum towards the Pacers at critical moments last game.

    I mean, PG shot the ball well, defended well, rebounded well, was aggressive. I don't know that you could ask for a better game for him. That Paul George is the best player on the team. I hope he shows up more often.

    And Tyler...that what you thought you'd be getting with Tyler. And it was awesome. Just a pain to play against. He made Big Baby's life hell and tired him out. The box score doesn't show how good he was.

    Also, I thought the biggest difference between the first half and the second was rebounding. They've been rebounding the ball much better than they should have been, and the Pacers stopped that in the second half. We're always going to struggle with PnR defense, but there's no excuse for letting that little team out rebound..or even stay competitive with the Pacers.

    I also think this team just needed a boost of confidence after the first game, and some..organization.. and my guess is the second half helped that.
    Last edited by Sookie; 05-01-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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  33. #23
    Member Mr.ThunderMakeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    But no I think long term the best thing to do with Davis is run different looks at him and start with Roy. Frank can and should design some type of play to get Roy a better quicker look.
    This is almost exactly what I said in the post game thread. Right now SVG has found a way to make us pay for guaring Davis with Roy, instead of the other way around. Clearly Hibbert is the better player, Vogel is just getting outcoached in this matchup.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 game 2 2012 playoffs

    The wear is already showing on the older Magic. Jason Richardson already went from being a killer to being a non factor.

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    I was behind the Magic bench, and I saw Baby Davis throwing up in the 4th. He is definitely worn out from this.


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