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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

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  • #1

    Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

    After the most successful season since the “brawl” that almost destroyed the Indiana Pacers if you look at the incredible luck, and apparent incompetence of other teams, that helped us get to where we are today there may have been some good karma bestowed upon the Pacers to balance out the devastation in the aftermath of the “brawl”.

    Obviously the additions of West and Hill especially, and to a lesser degree Amundson and Barbosa, have been crucial to this years’ success but it would be hard for anyone to argue that Granger is not the Pacers best player and that Hibbert is not the Pacers MVP. They are both all-stars and have been the key pieces to the Pacers resurgence to the upper level of the NBA.

    But when you look at what had to happen for the Pacers to acquire both of these players someone was looking out for the Pacers. Both were drafted at #17 in the draft. Granger in 2005 and Hibbert in 2008.

    First to Hibbert. It was widely known that the Pacers were in salary cap hell and they were highly motivated to find a trade partner for Jermaine O’Neal. While a star player at one time his skills had diminished and he was chronically injured with bad knees. Fortunately for the Pacers the Toronto Raptors were desperate to make a splash and foolishly traded for J.O. The trade not only saved the Pacers about $10 million in cap space over a few years they acquired the Raptors 1st round pick, #17, in a deep draft. J.O. would only play a half season for the Raptors before being dumped to Miami.

    That was the first stroke of luck for the Pacers in acquiring Hibbert and the first of many of Bird’s shrewd moves after assuming full control from Donnie Walsh. Roy had been projected to be a top 6 or 7 pick the year before but had decided to stay in school for his senior year and several G.M.’s felt he didn’t have any upside left. When the Pacers worked him out against other big men after he was finished he came over to Bird and asked “is that all you got?”. Larry just laughed and he knew Roy was his man.

    But apparently Bird was targeting Roy with the pick from Toronto so he would have to fall out of the Lottery. Looking back if the 2008 draft were held today Roy would be a top 5 pick but to get Roy the following players would have to be picked in front of him.

    Michael Beasley
    O.J. Mayo
    Joe Alexander
    D.J. Augistin
    Brook Lopez
    Jerryd Bayless
    Jason Thompson
    Anthony Randolph
    Robin Lopez
    Marreese Speights

    Not exactly of who’s who of stars in the league. Maybe just good karma for the Pacers.

    But the biggest story of good karma for the Pacers was the acquisition of Danny Granger. The Pacers had just come off the “brawl” year of suspensions and bad press. Although Carlisle rallied the team to a 2nd round exit in the playoffs the franchise was devastated, and demoralized in some ways, after losing a chance to make a run at the title with arguably what started as the deepest and most talented roster in the league and with the retirement of Reggie Miller it was the end of an era.

    The Pacers held the 17th pick in the draft and were not expecting to get an impact player. Even though he was projected to be a top 10 pick Danny Granger worked out for the Pacers before the draft. Apparently he looked really good and Carlisle asked Bird “do we really have a chance to get this guy” and Bird replied “no way”. In fact they apologized to Granger for wasting his time because he would be long gone before they picked.

    Would there be some good karma for the Pacers after the “brawl” and the retirement of Miller? You tell me. If the 2005 draft were held today Granger would be a top 5 pick but he slid by many teams because of some obviously unwarranted concern about his knee. Here is a list of the players that were selected ahead a Granger.

    Marvin Williams
    Raymond Felton
    Martell Webster
    Charlie Villanueva
    Channing Frye
    Ike Diogu
    Fran Vasquez
    Yaroslav Korolev
    Sean May
    Rashad McCants
    Antoine Wright
    Joey Graham

    Much more pitiful than those selected in front of Hibbert. Less than half of them ever made any impact at all in the league.

    So if you look at the 2 cornerstones of the franchise during the current resurgence, Granger and Hibbert, there had to be some good luck and some incompetence of other teams, as a total of 22 inferior players were selected ahead of them, but also some good karma to balance out the devastation of the “brawl”.
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  • #2
    Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

    I feel like when Hibbert was drafted some "experts" even acted like 17 was a reach, a lot of mocks had him going in the 20s.

    The list of players drafted ahead of Granger is hilarious.

    You can say we didn't have any top 5 picks, but we have two should have been top 5ish picks, and possibly 3 with Paul George.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

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    • #3
      Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

      No.

      The Pacers would have won at least one championship with the team they had. I'm glad we are finally looking good again, but it wasn't worth what we potentially lost. Although the argument could be better now than we would have without the brawl, but the in-between period was horrible.

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      • #4
        Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

        Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
        No.

        The Pacers would have won at least one championship with the team they had. I'm glad we are finally looking good again, but it wasn't worth what we potentially lost. Although the argument could be better now than we would have without the brawl, but the in-between period was horrible.
        I think you are looking at the beginning of that year where the Pacers were playing spectacular, particularly the Detroit brawl game, and not factoring in all the other stuff that would have hindered their chances of winning. From injuries to the 8 second saloon and the Conrad...that team didn't have much of a chance notwithstanding the talent level.

        JO's body fell apart not long after the brawl. Bender completely collapsed. JT wasn't exactly a rock either. Then you had all the other side shows going on and the chemistry issues between JO and Artest. That was not a team. It was a collection of talented and very immature basketball players.

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        • #5
          Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

          As like Dr. Awesome has said, the "Brawl" team was so talented that it deserved a championship title or two. I still wished the brawl didn't happen because it has cost us so much.

          But from all the bad that happened, I am still glad that the franchise take all the good that they can get from the bad. Hopefully, it's redemption time for the Pacers.

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          • #6
            Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

            Originally posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
            You can say we didn't have any top 5 picks
            We did until last summer, when we lost Mike Dunleavy.

            There go our playoff chances.
            This space for rent.

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            • #7
              Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

              What brawl?

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              • #8
                Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                  Thanks to this thread, I just rewatched the brawl. I don't advice anyone to do that. It's not good for you.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                    I see no evidence of "karma." I'll just enjoy what we've got now without needing to ascribe a mysterious cause to it. This organization was re-built, piece by painful piece, after the Brawl. That's pretty much the only connection - linear time that allows us to compare and contrast then and now. Part of it was hard work, part of it was luck. That's life for ya.

                    I understand why it still looms large, but I hope in another 10 years the Brawl is no longer our primary touchstone when it comes to evaluating where we are as a team.
                    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

                    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

                    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

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                    • #11
                      Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                      BillS

                      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                        Karma is fooey talk. Anything bad that can happen can happen. Anything good that can happen can happen.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                          Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                          Karma is fooey talk. Anything bad that can happen can happen. Anything good that can happen can happen.
                          My point was most people thought the Pacers got overly screwed by Commandant Stern and obviously the franchise suffered for many years after the "Malace in the Palace" but you have to admit that many things had to fall the Pacers' way to end up with both Granger and Hibbert and that has led to where we are today.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                            Where the Pacers are at are not a result of karma. Rather, it is a result of hard work, good decision making, and patience from the organization.
                            Peck is basically omniscient when it comes to understanding how the minds of Herb Simon and Kevin Pritchard work. I was a fool to ever question him and now feel deep shame for not understanding that this team believes in continuity above talent.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Maybe The “Brawl” Did Lead To Good Karma For The Pacers!!

                              Originally posted by I Love P View Post
                              Thanks to this thread, I just rewatched the brawl. I don't advice anyone to do that. It's not good for you.
                              u need to change ur signature

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