View Poll Results: Is 10 million dollars a year the right amount for David West?

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  • No, the Pacers are paying too much

    8 6.78%
  • Yes, that's the right balance between the two

    93 78.81%
  • No, David is even more valuable

    17 14.41%
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Thread: David West: 10 million dollar man?

  1. #51

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Humpries could give us similar wins I think, better defender, way better rebounder, 8mil for one year is a great deal.
    Your assuming that we could have signed him for 8 million. He got that deal becasue he wanted to be there and not somewhere else.

    During the FA signing period everyone knew that the NEts where all in for Dwight and that he had a good shot to play with the best Center and the best pg in the league. They certainly got a hometown discount for him.

    I really do think he would have been good here but lets not kid ourselves. He is not the leader that Dwest is and probably never will be. He's a lunch pail PF that is one of the most assisted PF's in the league.

    Dwest spreads the floor better than him and limits the amount of double teams Hibbert sees on a nightly basis. Both are good and both have their strengths but one is more of leader which is what this team needed last year.

  2. #52
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Fascinating how different my metrics are from everybody else.

    If David West hit the free agent market right now, would he make more or less than 10mil? I think more, so I voted that he's more valuable than his contract.

    I don't understand why you'd use his averages to draw conclusions, since its so clearly impacted by having a multi-threat offense.
    I think most people base it off of what they think he is worth, not what other people think he is worth. I don't care if others think he is worth $12 million I do not, and I would let him walk if someone offered $12 million. Just because market value puts him higher does not mean he actually brings that much worth to the table. He will also be worth different amounts to different teams depending on the make up of those teams.

  3. #53
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Humphries? Please. This thread is a joke thanks to two posters.

    Freaking 3rd in the East. Can't ask for anything better with Chicago and Miami with the rosters they have. Come on!

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  5. #54
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Thank you! Humphries is a lot like Drew Gooden and Troy Murphy. If you start them and give them plenty of minutes, that post great stats. You'll also end up losing a lot games in the process because they are poor defenders.
    I know, I know, Lebron James, but Drew Gooden was a starter on a finals team...

  6. #55
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Humphries? Please. This thread is a joke thanks to two posters.

    Freaking 3rd in the East. Can't ask for anything better with Chicago and Miami with the rosters they have. Come on!
    ...it's as if some fans are waiting for ESPN to tell them that our team is legit, or something.

    Some of us choose to determine that with our own eyes. From what I gather, some of us simply can't see.

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  8. #56
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Boston was willing to go 3 years at 8 million a year so the team couldn't have gone any cheaper to get him.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  9. #57
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    West is good at boxing out, but doesn't have the greatest instincts when snatching rebounds.

    He's, strong and can get his shot off on nearly any PF defending, but it's not always a great shot when it's any kind of good defender. Which means he's a solid offensive option, but not the type of option yo u can depend on points. At least compared to someone like Danny Granger. (and Granger isn't even considered that great of a threat in this league)

    At this point, he doesn't have the most consistent jump shot, but when he gets it going, he can really be a deadly threat out to 20 feet.

    Quick powerforwards such as Bosh, and 'Melo are a disaster, something that makes him a liability on the floor.

    The nice thing about West's contract, is it's so short, so it can't get us in trouble. But is 10mil a lot? Absolutely.

    Compare this teams talent to other contenders, and think about the cap space we need to acquire enough talent to compete. Yes it is.

    Think about Memphis: They have a PF that dominate offensively, a SF that's essentially our best players equal, a center that is our center's equal, and a defensive two guard that is better than our defensive two guard, and Conley and Hill are just about equal.

    That's a contender right there. The money wrapped up in West, had it been long term, would have kept us from acquiring the necessary talent, to make this team great.

    I love West. What he's brought has been invaluable, but I hope he's willing to take a pay cut going into the future, because he's not worth it if he wont.

    4yr / 25 mil sounds about right after this year. Let him be a piece to a contender, not one of three players making over 10mil a year. We can't afford that unless he's bringing in the necessary offensive power this team desperately needs.

  10. #58
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    I don't think any one denies that $10 may be a bit high for just on court reasons. Without West, Roy probably is not on the same level. The team probably is not on the same level. He has so much influence on the team off the court and even on it that you can't begin to measure. Plus as others have said, it's 2 years and we had space and a need.

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  12. #59

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    West is good at boxing out, but doesn't have the greatest instincts when snatching rebounds.

    He's, strong and can get his shot off on nearly any PF defending, but it's not always a great shot when it's any kind of good defender. Which means he's a solid offensive option, but not the type of option yo u can depend on points. At least compared to someone like Danny Granger. (and Granger isn't even considered that great of a threat in this league)

    At this point, he doesn't have the most consistent jump shot, but when he gets it going, he can really be a deadly threat out to 20 feet.

    Quick powerforwards such as Bosh, and 'Melo are a disaster, something that makes him a liability on the floor.

    The nice thing about West's contract, is it's so short, so it can't get us in trouble. But is 10mil a lot? Absolutely.

    Compare this teams talent to other contenders, and think about the cap space we need to acquire enough talent to compete. Yes it is.

    Think about Memphis: They have a PF that dominate offensively, a SF that's essentially our best players equal, a center that is our center's equal, and a defensive two guard that is better than our defensive two guard, and Conley and Hill are just about equal.

    That's a contender right there. The money wrapped up in West, had it been long term, would have kept us from acquiring the necessary talent, to make this team great.

    I love West. What he's brought has been invaluable, but I hope he's willing to take a pay cut going into the future, because he's not worth it if he wont.

    4yr / 25 mil sounds about right after this year. Let him be a piece to a contender, not one of three players making over 10mil a year. We can't afford that unless he's bringing in the necessary offensive power this team desperately needs.
    Memphis is also paying more for their equivalents. Gay making 15 million, Randolf making 15 million, Gasol and Hibbert will be the same here soon but that teams got 71 million on the books this year.

    The Pacers still have enough money with Dwest contract to put a contender on the floor.

  13. #60
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Memphis is also paying more for their equivalents. Gay making 15 million, Randolf making 15 million, Gasol and Hibbert will be the same here soon but that teams got 71 million on the books this year.

    The Pacers still have enough money with Dwest contract to put a contender on the floor.
    I'll explain what I'm getting at- As of now, the Pacers can't contend realistically.

    Now if we were to sign Deron Williams, we'd still have the money to sign Roy and then be a contender. With that said, We'd still be a little bit handicapped by West's contract because we wouldn't have the ability resign Barbosa, who we'd need coming off the bench. Or other solid bench players which we need. We'd be a top heavy team who had a strong starting lineup and a terrible bench. Essentially because we were paying a role player too much money.

    That's just one example. Granger and Roy going forward will work, as long as we're able to sign that guy that can dominate on offense. West's contract is eating up some of that space.

    It's not that West isn't worth it. But in the future? It won't be. In future we'll need to use that money on someone who can score.
    Last edited by mattie; 04-17-2012 at 03:33 PM.

  14. #61
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    So we remove West, and insert Humphries and we are just as good? Hardly. The team acted immature last year and that's one of the biggest reasons we are doing well. West is one of the more mature professionals youll find in the NBA and Humphries is an immature attention whore. This team was begging for someone to point them in the right direction off and on the court. Which West has done and Humphries couldn't have.

    We should pay Nene 17 mil a year for his 14 and 7, but West is overpaid at 10.

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  16. #62

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Humpries one year and 8mil is a way better deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    So we remove West, and insert Humphries and we are just as good? Hardly. The team acted immature last year and that's one of the biggest reasons we are doing well. West is one of the more mature professionals youll find in the NBA and Humphries is an immature attention whore. This team was begging for someone to point them in the right direction off and on the court. Which West has done and Humphries couldn't have.

    We should pay Nene 17 mil a year for his 14 and 7, but West is overpaid at 10.
    i know opinions vary on all things pacers, but saying humpries is better value than dwest is silly. humpries is another activity player. rebounds, defend [sort of] but has no inside game at all. he is just a guy. david has the complete inside game, the complete mid-range game, the whole offensive package, humpries has none of that.

    it seems to me that dwest is getting quicker as the year goes on. that his knee is holding up and is getting stronger. it will be interesting to see in the playoffs just how close to the NOH dwest he comes.

  17. #63

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I'll explain what I'm getting at- As of now, the Pacers can't contend realistically.

    Now if we were to sign Deron Williams, we'd still have the money to sign Roy and then be a contender. With that said, We'd still be a little bit handicapped by West's contract because we wouldn't have the ability resign Barbosa, who we'd need coming off the bench. Or other solid bench players which we need. We'd be a top heavy team who had a strong starting lineup and a terrible bench. Essentially because we were paying a role player too much money.

    That's just one example. Granger and Roy going forward will work, as long as we're able to sign that guy that can dominate on offense. West's contract is eating up some of that space.

    It's not that West isn't worth it. But in the future? It won't be. In future we'll need to use that money on someone who can score.
    The Pacers can still add a Barbosa type player even with a big addition of say EJ or Nash. Thats what the MLE is for so I don't look at him as a guy we can't replace even over the cap.

  18. #64
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    The Pacers can still add a Barbosa type player even with a big addition of say EJ or Nash. Thats what the MLE is for so I don't look at him as a guy we can't replace even over the cap.
    Maybe, but it would be tight. West gives role player production. He should be paid as much.

    That's not saying he isn't extremely important. The Pacers went to the finals with extremely important role player Dale Davis, putting up better stats than West.

    If we're going to acquire the right talent, players should be paid accordingly. I suspect that when West is up for a contract that he'll have no problems signing a cheaper, but longer contract. Having proven, that he is healthy, but no longer an all-star caliber player, worthy of making 10/yr.

  19. #65

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Maybe, but it would be tight. West gives role player production. He should be paid as much.

    That's not saying he isn't extremely important. The Pacers went to the finals with extremely important role player Dale Davis, putting up better stats than West.

    If we're going to acquire the right talent, players should be paid accordingly. I suspect that when West is up for a contract that he'll have no problems signing a cheaper, but longer contract. Having proven, that he is healthy, but no longer an all-star caliber player, worthy of making 10/yr.
    The beauty of it is that we can make a competitive offer to him regardless since we have Bird rights. This next off season should tell us if Simon is all in on winning a championship since we will have the capspace to sign guys like EJ or Nash. Most competitive teams are over the cap especially if their best talent are off their rookie contracts.

    The pacers will be in the same boat whether they have Dwest or not so it really boils down to what they can get this offseason.

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  21. #66
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    The beauty of it is that we can make a competitive offer to him regardless since we have Bird rights. This next off season should tell us if Simon is all in on winning a championship since we will have the capspace to sign guys like EJ or Nash. Most competitive teams are over the cap especially if their best talent are off their rookie contracts.

    The pacers will be in the same boat whether they have Dwest or not so it really boils down to what they can get this offseason.
    I could be wrong, but dont you have to have a player under contract for 3 years to obtain Bird Rights on said player??

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  23. #67
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    So we remove West, and insert Humphries and we are just as good? Hardly. The team acted immature last year and that's one of the biggest reasons we are doing well. West is one of the more mature professionals youll find in the NBA and Humphries is an immature attention whore. This team was begging for someone to point them in the right direction off and on the court. Which West has done and Humphries couldn't have.

    We should pay Nene 17 mil a year for his 14 and 7, but West is overpaid at 10.
    Funny that now I'm supposed to be the only one that was down to pay Nene a big contract.

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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Funny that now I'm supposed to be the only one that was down to pay Nene a big contract.
    You were one of, if not the most vocal for giving Nene that big contract. You made it very clear that you did not want David West and that you really wanted Nene. Not sure why you wouldn't expect to get some flack for it. Nene got way overpaid, Denver wanted to get out of that deal so badly they traded him for JaVale McGee.

    $10 million for David West is a great deal. Sure if you look at the numbers only, it may not seem that way. But David has greatly impacted this team with his presence alone. Roy Hibbert is not an all-star without David West. This team isn't the 3rd seed in the East without David West.

    And $10 million a year for 2 years is VERY different than $10 million a year for 4 years.

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  26. #69
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    I could be wrong, but dont you have to have a player under contract for 3 years to obtain Bird Rights on said player??
    That's a good point. We could possibly have cap space in 2013 though, depending on future moves. Though if we do have cap space I suppose we'll want a younger PF for the long term, as in CooperManning's thread.

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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    You were one of, if not the most vocal for giving Nene that big contract. You made it very clear that you did not want David West and that you really wanted Nene. Not sure why you wouldn't expect to get some flack for it. Nene got way overpaid, Denver wanted to get out of that deal so badly they traded him for JaVale McGee.

    $10 million for David West is a great deal. Sure if you look at the numbers only, it may not seem that way. But David has greatly impacted this team with his presence alone. Roy Hibbert is not an all-star without David West. This team isn't the 3rd seed in the East without David West.

    And $10 million a year for 2 years is VERY different than $10 million a year for 4 years.
    I guess you are going to keep repeating the Denver/Nene BS until it becomes true.

  28. #71
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I was never clamoring for the guy
    Why not? I mean, if you thought he was a good deal, why didn't you want us to go after him?

    I'm kinda thinking that this whole thread is one big post hoc/propter hoc discussion, but I'm open to be persuaded otherwise.
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  29. #72
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I guess you are going to keep repeating the Denver/Nene BS until it becomes true.
    Hey, the cool thing about the internet is that all those threads are still online and can be linked. Shouldn't be hard for you to disprove his point if he's wrong.

    I have no idea if he's right or not; I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other. But the easy way to prove you're right is to post a link.
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  30. #73
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think most people base it off of what they think he is worth, not what other people think he is worth. I don't care if others think he is worth $12 million I do not, and I would let him walk if someone offered $12 million. Just because market value puts him higher does not mean he actually brings that much worth to the table. He will also be worth different amounts to different teams depending on the make up of those teams.
    This is a great answer. I don't agree, but that's a reasonable and well-thought-out post.
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  31. #74

    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I guess you are going to keep repeating the Denver/Nene BS until it becomes true.
    was bored so went through old thread. what he said was def. true you were very anti west and you were a big advocate of getting nene. edit: not there is anything wrong with that, just dont see why there is an issue here.

    in hindsight its pretty cool we acquired david west. him and collison on the hornets were really good friends, and without dc2 and recovering facilities pacers offer i dont think west ever comes to indiana. combine it with the george hill pick up and this team is awesome (and it already was above avg team last yr, chi/pacers play offs last yr was v fun to watch). something tells me larry bird knows exactly what hes doing and im super excited to see how this team changes for the better. if we started taking humphries for 1yr and listening to vnz81 we would be like the bobcats in less then 5 yrs, .
    Last edited by Pacer.; 04-17-2012 at 05:50 PM.

  32. #75
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    Default Re: David West: 10 million dollar man?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I guess you are going to keep repeating the Denver/Nene BS until it becomes true.
    what Denver/Nene BS?

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