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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

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    Default Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Tonight’s thoughts are going to be ever so brief.

    First a question, which will serve as the majority of the feedback this posting will receive I’m sure.

    The Question:

    With the way they have played over the past month is the front line of Granger, West & Hibbert the best front court in basketball right now? If not, who is better?

    Now to the odd thoughts which tonight will be done bullet point style.

    • I could spend an hour complaining about our bench tonight, but I’m just not going to waste the time. Our starters were so good that they single handily beat the Timberwolves. The concern I have long term for the bench is the same we’ve had most of the season and that is if Tyler is useless (as he was this game) then we have zero low post options on the bench and they become a jump shooting bonanza. If those shots are dropping, look out, but when they are not.

    • I am now ready to change my mind about George Hill as a starter. I was afraid to make a change this late in the year but the defense George brings to the table is just too much. He completely covers any areas of concern that we have with David West on the defensive end. In fact our entire starting lineup’s defense is just too good to mess with right now. Now the bench will be a disaster because Collison has not played with these guys at all and his style doesn’t match theirs but I think come playoff time Frank needs to do away with having a bench and starting unit separate on the floor.

    • David West is gearing up for a playoff run. I don’t know why but I just get this sneaky feeling come playoff time we will see a far more aggressive and effective David West. That contract at this point in time is looking like a steal from our end.

    • This is going to sound like it is nothing but hyperbole but I’m of the mind set that when Roy Hibbert plays like this we are an elite team. Danny is our best player & we need him every night as well but I think overall Roy is our most important player.

    • Ironic if you watch the post game interviews from the Timberwolves locker room how many times they say the word “tough” regarding our team. Those pills are really starting to pay off.

    • Also listening to them talk about our team has to give any Pacers fan some pride because they all made a point to say what a great team we are.

    • Now that I’ve asked about the front court I’ll interject this small thought here, when they get used to each other and understand where each other will be on defense will Hill & George be the best defensive back court in the NBA. I’m not saying they are there now, but if they get used to each other I wonder how good that can be.

    • I know I’ve sworn off of talking about him & for the most part I’ve been pretty good but once again I can’t help but be amazed that we are 17 games above .500% when our last coach could never even get us to .500%. The current team has more talent (by far) but there was enough here in the past to get closer, it’s just all in the style of play IMO.

    • Seth and I were talking about his comparison to the 93/94 team when it actually struck me. This W/L % is actually better than that team. Look I live by that team, I tell everybody I know that this was my favorite team and IMO was second only to the team that went to the finals as being the best team. But I’ll be damned if I don’t have to look at the win loss column and start to question myself on this. The playoffs will be the key.

    • I just don’t know yet where we truly are as a team. We’re winning, that can’t be denied, but I think a strong run in the playoffs and this current team will have to jettison up the ladder of best Pacer teams. Wow who would have thought this going into the season and even in February when a lot of us were ready to dive face first off the top of the fieldhouse.

    • I don’t know how high Vogel gets in the C.O.Y. voting but I’ll be damned if I can think of one single executive that deserves a vote over Larry Bird. Nothing but smart player signings and two brilliant trades, one of which we got the exact player we needed with only giving up a second round pick.


    Ok on an administrative note I need to let everybody know that there is a very high likely hood that I will not be able to do an Odd Thought’s tomorrow. So if I do kick something out it will probably be thrown in the post game thread.





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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    I think that David West is leaving something in the tank for the playoffs as well. He has a huge impact on the game without anyone realizing he had a huge impact on the game, and to think he might be able to kick it up another notch is pretty awesome to consider.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • I am now ready to change my mind about George Hill as a starter. I was afraid to make a change this late in the year but the defense George brings to the table is just too much. He completely covers any areas of concern that we have with David West on the defensive end. In fact our entire starting lineup’s defense is just too good to mess with right now. Now the bench will be a disaster because Collison has not played with these guys at all and his style doesn’t match theirs but I think come playoff time Frank needs to do away with having a bench and starting unit separate on the floor.
    This bullet point is incredibly full of truth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • Seth and I were talking about his comparison to the 93/94 team when it actually struck me. This W/L % is actually better than that team. Look I live by that team, I tell everybody I know that this was my favorite team and IMO was second only to the team that went to the finals as being the best team. But I’ll be damned if I don’t have to look at the win loss column and start to question myself on this. The playoffs will be the key.
    The 93/94 team swept the Magic in the first round, just as I expect us to do this season. I do think the 97-98 Pacers was the best team we ever had though, it peaked one year too early, and the lockout didn't help either.
    Last edited by Isaac; 04-17-2012 at 02:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    So is this the last we'll see of Brad Miller? Did I hear right tonight that he is retiring?
    Last edited by rabid; 04-17-2012 at 02:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Great read as always.

    By the way, I dont know if anyone noticed, but ESPN when referring to George Hill's dunk apparently doesn't know the difference between George Hill and Paul George. They said Paul George was the dunker.

    Amazing they can't get that right. I mean getting a scrub's name wrong will happen. But two starters on the 3rd seed in the East? Really?

    Funny thing is, obviously the teleprompter was screwed up, but the anchors missed it too!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    So is this the last we'll see of Brad Miller? Did I hear right tonight that he is retiring?
    Shhh. Be very quiet. He's in Canada.


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Chicago's Deng, Boozer and Noah is about equal. There is a reason why the Bulls dominate rebounding and Boozer's offense to go along with Deng and Noah's defense is a killer combo.

    NY's Melo, Amare and Chandler, odviously not right now, but when healthy is better. Melo and Amare is a great scoring combo, and Chandler is extremely efficient and a probably the best defensive C not named Dwight...

    Memphis' Gay, Randolph and Gasol is also very close, although Z Bo is not 100% back. Gay is close to Danny, though not as efficient, Randolph is not a great defender, but neither is West, and hate to say it but, Gasol is a better C in about every aspect, although its close in about every aspect, too...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Fez kind of reminds me of Sabonis

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    Fez kind of reminds me of Sabonis
    Sure...in a massive doughy white guy kinda way. I really do like Fes though, I want to see him get some legitimate minutes that actually mean something.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Chicago's Deng, Boozer and Noah is about equal. There is a reason why the Bulls dominate rebounding and Boozer's offense to go along with Deng and Noah's defense is a killer combo.

    NY's Melo, Amare and Chandler, odviously not right now, but when healthy is better. Melo and Amare is a great scoring combo, and Chandler is extremely efficient and a probably the best defensive C not named Dwight...

    Memphis' Gay, Randolph and Gasol is also very close, although Z Bo is not 100% back. Gay is close to Danny, though not as efficient, Randolph is not a great defender, but neither is West, and hate to say it but, Gasol is a better C in about every aspect, although its close in about every aspect, too...
    Gasol is not better than Roy in anything but passing the ball.

    Per 36 minutes stats

    Gasol:

    14.4 ppg
    9.1 rpg
    3.1 apg
    1.8 bpg
    .479 fg
    18.1 PER

    HIbbert:

    15.6 ppg
    10.7 rpg
    2.1 apg
    2.4 bpg
    .497%
    19.4 PER

    Roy is significantly more productive relative to his time of the floor than Gasol is.

    Scores at a higher rate, on a higer percentage, rebounds at a greater rate, blocks shots at a significantly greater rate, is a comparable positional defender and he's younger.

    Hibbert is better than Gasol at most everything other than playing super heavy minutes.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Gasol is not better than Roy in anything but passing the ball.

    Per 36 minutes stats

    Gasol:

    14.4 ppg
    9.1 rpg
    3.1 apg
    1.8 bpg
    .479 fg
    18.1 PER

    HIbbert:

    15.6 ppg
    10.7 rpg
    2.1 apg
    2.4 bpg
    .497%
    19.4 PER

    Roy is significantly more productive relative to his time of the floor than Gasol is.

    Scores at a higher rate, on a higer percentage, rebounds at a greater rate, blocks shots at a significantly greater rate, is a comparable positional defender and he's younger.

    Hibbert is better than Gasol at most everything other than playing super heavy minutes.
    I love how you conveniently leave out these per 36s

    Gasol:

    0.9 spg- better
    1.9 tpg- better
    .742 ft- better

    Hibbert:

    0.5 spg
    2.5 tpg
    .706 ft

    Also

    Gasol:

    110 offensive rating- better
    99 defensive rating- better
    .158 win shares per 48 min- better

    Hibbert:

    108 offensive rating
    100 defensive rating
    .152 win shares per 48 min

    There is a reason why you have to use per 36 minute stats, and that's because big Roy does not have the stamina to play big minutes. Gasol plays 7.4 more minutes a game then Roy, and like 99.9% of players his production drops the more mins he racks up. If Roy where to play as many mins as Gasol, I guarantee his per 36s would take a huge dive. The question really is, would you rather have Roy for 30 minutes and a back up for 18 minutes, or Marc Gasol for 37.4 mins and a back up for 10.6 minutes, I choose Gasol...

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    I presume last night was the last game of Brad's career correct? Denari and Quinn didn't really get the hunch, but I think Adelman played Miller so that his last game could be in the place formerly known as Conseco, where he was arguably playing at his highest level and contending.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    The 12th was the 1 year anniversary of David West's surgery, so I'd say it's just about time for him to be full strength again.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    I love how you conveniently leave out these per 36s

    Gasol:

    0.9 spg- better
    1.9 tpg- better
    .742 ft- better

    Hibbert:

    0.5 spg
    2.5 tpg
    .706 ft

    Also

    Gasol:

    110 offensive rating- better
    99 defensive rating- better
    .158 win shares per 48 min- better

    Hibbert:

    108 offensive rating
    100 defensive rating
    .152 win shares per 48 min

    There is a reason why you have to use per 36 minute stats, and that's because big Roy does not have the stamina to play big minutes. Gasol plays 7.4 more minutes a game then Roy, and like 99.9% of players his production drops the more mins he racks up. If Roy where to play as many mins as Gasol, I guarantee his per 36s would take a huge dive. The question really is, would you rather have Roy for 30 minutes and a back up for 18 minutes, or Marc Gasol for 37.4 mins and a back up for 10.6 minutes, I choose Gasol...
    I also feel that stats don't always tell the story. As much as I LOVE Big Roy, he is still prone to mental lapses, which leads to inconsistency. Gasol is a pretty consistent performer imo.

    Both players have different strengths but I think that Gasol is more consistent. Also, lets see how Big Roy does in the playoffs. Gasol KILLED Tim Duncan and Perkins in the playoffs last season. Big Roy played terrible against Joakim Noah.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • David West is gearing up for a playoff run. I don’t know why but I just get this sneaky feeling come playoff time we will see a far more aggressive and effective David West. That contract at this point in time is looking like a steal from our end.
    More important than getting a better David West in the playoffs is simply getting more David West in the playoffs. He really needs to be playing 35-40 minutes if his knees can handle it.

    The drop from West to Tyler Hansbrough is larger than any position on the team. And this is a team who subs Dahntay Jones for Danny Granger and Lou Amundson for Roy Hibbert.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Hard to argue with Van Halen, but I had a vision you were going to go with "What's LOVE got to do with it?" Oh well.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    I'm a huge Roy fan, but Gasol flat out torched him when we played the Grizz earlier this season.

    Still I think our front court complements each other very nicely and I can't wait to see how they go in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire View Post
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    I'm a huge Roy fan, but Gasol flat out torched him when we played the Grizz earlier this season.

    Still I think our front court complements each other very nicely and I can't wait to see how they go in the playoffs.
    I love our front court too, we are just missing athleticism...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    I would be very surprised and not too happy if Collison even if he gets 100% healthy within the next 10 days is ever put back into the starting lineup. I understand not wanting to change the lineups, but now that we were forced to, I think it worked out for the best.


    • Seth and I were talking about his comparison to the 93/94 team when it actually struck me. This W/L % is actually better than that team. Look I live by that team, I tell everybody I know that this was my favorite team and IMO was second only to the team that went to the finals as being the best team. But I’ll be damned if I don’t have to look at the win loss column and start to question myself on this. The playoffs will be the key.
    Not a fair comparison. the '94 team started 16-23, and had just lost 5 in a row to fall to 16-23. They finally beat the Rockets to break the losing streak (the Rockets were pretty good that year) and if I remember correctly the pacers trailed big in that game at halftime and I turned the game off in disgust thinking the season was over and major changes were needed.

    Pacers finished the season with a 47-35 record. So 31-12 to end the season. They won at a 72% wining percentage which over the course of an 82 season equates to 59 wins or over a 66 game season 47 wins. Pacers aren't going to win 47 games this season. They could win 44 games, but I would expect once tghe pacers clinch the third seed they will rest and or cut back on starters minutes. DG and West and Roy a little.

    http://www.pacersuniverse.com/season...n_game_log.htm
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-17-2012 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    ē David West is gearing up for a playoff run. I donít know why but I just get this sneaky feeling come playoff time we will see a far more aggressive and effective David West. That contract at this point in time is looking like a steal from our end.
    10mil for 12 and 6 and OK D an steal from our end? Yeah I don't know about that, let's wait to see what he does on the playoffs before we declare anything because so far those 10mil have been an steal from his end.

    Let's hope we are able to play him againts the likes of Ryan Anderson, Josh Smith or Amare or we are going to need to go small for a whole series leaving him on the bench, and before anybody gets all sensitive on me I would like to remind you that this is an opinion board

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    I think the Knicks' front-court is unquestionably the most talented. Of course, they haven't really played the best.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    More important than getting a better David West in the playoffs is simply getting more David West in the playoffs. He really needs to be playing 35-40 minutes if his knees can handle it.

    The drop from West to Tyler Hansbrough is larger than any position on the team. And this is a team who subs Dahntay Jones for Danny Granger and Lou Amundson for Roy Hibbert.
    Larger than any position on the team? Yeah OK....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    10mil for 12 and 6 and OK D an steal from our end? Yeah I don't know about that, let's wait to see what he does on the playoffs before we declare anything because so far those 10mil have been an steal from his end.

    Let's hope we are able to play him againts the likes of Ryan Anderson, Josh Smith or Amare or we are going to need to go small for a whole series leaving him on the bench, and before anybody gets all sensitive on me I would like to remind you that this is an opinion board
    If all you see from DWest is 12 & 6, I have no hope for you any longer.

    Besides, I think the point was that we'll have to see what he brings in the playoffs, and we're expecting more than "just 12 & 6."
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Larger than any position on the team? Yeah OK....
    We lose more with that swap than any other this season.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Ain't talkin' bout Love

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    If all you see from DWest is 12 & 6, I have no hope for you any longer.

    Besides, I think the point was that we'll have to see what he brings in the playoffs, and we're expecting more than "just 12 & 6."
    Well that was my point, I'm expecting to see more than 12,6 and ok D before I declare that paying him 10mil was such a great deal, like I said before if we go small because he can't stay in front of his guy or stay close to him I would think that paying him 10mil was a mistake.

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