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Thread: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

  1. #26
    BoilerUpMan Really?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    As I pointed out in another thread, we do not have winning records against any teams in the eastern conference playoff picture, to me that is kind of scary. For a 3rd place team I would expect more than that.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    I don't get when people say that we don't deserve any coverage because we haven't won anything in the postseason...the regular season is just as important as the postseason. And it allows you to do things or try out things that you wouldn't be able to do in the playoffs. And honestly, you get to see how you play against an assortment of different styles. Not to mention it determines seeding. Most articles I have read recently STILL assume either Boston or Orlando will be the 3 seed.

    And how close the race in the East is SHOULD be a story. Instead, it's the same "West is so even" story. However, the East teams ranked 3-9 are practically identical to the West teams ranked 3-10.

    But we played 5 games in a week, have comeback wins over Houston and New York, beat Washington, then beat the Thunder before finally losing to Boston in a game where neither team played well. And what gets taken out of that week by the media is that Boston put us in our place. Nobody who doesn't pay attention to the Pacers will really know that they won 4 in a row, which included the Thunder and 2 other playoff teams.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    This year, I don't care that we have received little attention. What matters to me is what the local fan base thinks and whether the Team is building any grass-roots "buzz". I think that it's working.

    Everything matters next season. What will matter to me is if the "buzz" about the Pacers in the local fan base doesn't continue to grow next season. When it comes to the National Media....the same can be said, this season...we're a Team that was a Playoff bubble Team that has started to make that leap forward. But by next season...I can see Teams and Fans starting to view us the same way that they view the Hawks...a Team that can no longer be ignored.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    As I pointed out in another thread, we do not have winning records against any teams in the eastern conference playoff picture, to me that is kind of scary. For a 3rd place team I would expect more than that.
    And yet the Pacers have a better record than all of them but 2. So we're in bad shape because we don't have a winning record against playoff teams, but their in good shape because they have a worse record than us?

    That doesn't make any sense. The truth is most teams, except for the elite of the elite, have evidence to point out that they aren't real title contenders. Not a shocking revelation, I know.

    If you expect the Pacers to be free of some warts, then I don't know what to say.

  7. #30

    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Unfortunately, I don't think we will beat orlando, boston or atlanta iin a 7 game series.

    So I guess i don't believe we are the 3rd best team in the east.

    Our biggest problem is that no one on our team can handle the ball much. Roy, Danny, Paul have really bad handles. That's why we struggle so much against teams like Boston who use not only their feet on defense, but their hands as well.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    As I pointed out in another thread, we do not have winning records against any teams in the eastern conference playoff picture, to me that is kind of scary. For a 3rd place team I would expect more than that.

    I was worried about that too...but then I was looking at the schedule and this is our breakdown of wins and losses:

    Single Night: 3-3
    First Night of B2B: 2-4
    Second Night of B2B: 3-6
    First Night of B2B2B: 0-1

    And six of our losses came in that 2 week stretch of schedule from Hell. All six were back to backs, and we won a "Single Night" against Philly in between. And they weren't playing well and they were playing without George Hill at least for the first 4 games if I remember correctly. They got into a funk and couldn't shake it.

    My point is, I think our guys try to overthink how they go about playing good teams in any kind of back to back situations. Because they have a worse record in the opening night of a back to back situation than they do on the 2nd against these good teams.

  9. #32
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And yet the Pacers have a better record than all of them but 2. So we're in bad shape because we don't have a winning record against playoff teams, but their in good shape because they have a worse record than us?

    That doesn't make any sense. The truth is most teams, except for the elite of the elite, have evidence to point out that they aren't real title contenders. Not a shocking revelation, I know.

    If you expect the Pacers to be free of some warts, then I don't know what to say.
    It could be a warning sign in terms of direct matchups; it's one thing to out-win people in the regular season, but it's another to have to beat a particular team 4 times out of 7 (just ask the Spurs versus the Grizzlies last year as a recent example).

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And yet the Pacers have a better record than all of them but 2. So we're in bad shape because we don't have a winning record against playoff teams, but their in good shape because they have a worse record than us?

    That doesn't make any sense. The truth is most teams, except for the elite of the elite, have evidence to point out that they aren't real title contenders. Not a shocking revelation, I know.

    If you expect the Pacers to be free of some warts, then I don't know what to say.
    This has to do with why we aren't receiving much attention, and to your point, my thinking is that for teams that are in the playoffs, the ones that we will need to beat, we do not have a winning record against ANY. If the other teams in the playoffs have winning records against us, even if they have a worst record on their season schedule, that still means they ideally should have the upper hand on us.

    Granted we are tied in the season serious with some teams, but I believe Orlando has beat us 3 out of 4 times this year, I do not care if their record is a whopping 1 game below ours, lol.

    We loss 2 games and we are the 6th seed in the east, it is not like we are the clear cut 3rd team in the east, that is just where our season schedule and play has allowed us to be.

    of the eastern conference playoff teams we are 7th in conference record, only beating out NY.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I don't get when people say that we don't deserve any coverage because we haven't won anything in the postseason...the regular season is just as important as the postseason. And it allows you to do things or try out things that you wouldn't be able to do in the playoffs. And honestly, you get to see how you play against an assortment of different styles. Not to mention it determines seeding. Most articles I have read recently STILL assume either Boston or Orlando will be the 3 seed.

    And how close the race in the East is SHOULD be a story. Instead, it's the same "West is so even" story. However, the East teams ranked 3-9 are practically identical to the West teams ranked 3-10.

    But we played 5 games in a week, have comeback wins over Houston and New York, beat Washington, then beat the Thunder before finally losing to Boston in a game where neither team played well. And what gets taken out of that week by the media is that Boston put us in our place. Nobody who doesn't pay attention to the Pacers will really know that they won 4 in a row, which included the Thunder and 2 other playoff teams.
    For me, it's less about whether we're "deserving" or not, and more about what we've proven up to this point. I'm a pretty hard core fan of this team, so don't get me wrong... but up to this point, we, alongside the team, still revel when we beat a good team. Truly good teams expect to consistently beat other good teams... and do so.

    I've seen little to suggest that we've done anything more up to this point than to improve, and show that we deserve to be in the playoffs. Once we win more than a game in a playoff series, the press will begin to recognize the team's future.

    Maybe it's me, but I feel like the Pacers have received a relative trove of good press this year. Very few negative articles... all mostly complimentary of our growth, team character, and prospects for the future.

    It seems relatively appropriate for this stage in the team's growth, as frustrating as that is for me as a fan.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Seems bizarre that with only 10 games left that still nobody is discussing the Pacers nationally. We have beaten every elite team besides the Spurs. They didn't even mention the score from last night on Fox radio this morning. Sam Mitchell gave us props on NBA network though.
    Maybe its because we tend to get slaughtered by the better teams and people are expecting that to happen in the 1st round. I don't see the big deal, you want respect, earn it.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    That's hilarious, Hollinger's rankings have:
    Phx
    Hou
    Atl
    Philly

    And the funniest of all:
    Knicks at #5. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Right. Knicks are right up there with OKC, Miami, Chicago, SA. Hahaha. Hahaha.

    That's all you need to see to COMPLETELY discount his rankings.

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  18. #37
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by MiaDragon View Post
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    Maybe its because we tend to get slaughtered by the better teams and people are expecting that to happen in the 1st round. I don't see the big deal, you want respect, earn it.
    That isn't even really the truth though.

    Two blowout losses to Miami, followed by a close loss and a win.

    A blowout loss to Chicago...after a borderline blowout win IN Chicago.

    I suppose you could count the Knick losses as blowouts.

    But, you have to take into consideration that this team has won IN Dallas, LA, Chicago, big wins over basically every top team. I'm more interested in the fact that the Pacers have pretty consistently shown up against top tier teams, then the fact that they have experienced blowouts (Which EVERY team has). That's more an indicator of the condensed schedule than the quality of this team.

    So, to add to what you said, "you want respect, earn it, by either having a superstar player or winning in the playoffs."

  19. #38

    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Idk if anyone else has noticed but outside of Miami and Chicago, there are no dominant teams. And don't tell me we don't have a winning record against the EC playoff foes. Have to remember that throughout the season it seems we meet a lot of these teams on the tail end of 3 gamers.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It could be a warning sign in terms of direct matchups; it's one thing to out-win people in the regular season, but it's another to have to beat a particular team 4 times out of 7 (just ask the Spurs versus the Grizzlies last year as a recent example).
    So you're saying that the Heat would struggle with the Bucks then? They are 2-1 against Miami. (I know that's not what you're saying, just using an example of going in the opposite direction, because none of us would conclude that Miami would lose to the Bucks. Hoping not anyway)

    It's just been a weird season with it only being 66 games packed in to so little of time. The playoffs are going to be a different beast all together because of the rest time inbetween games.

    Not saying all the losses are the result of the schedule, but if 2 or 3 games go in the other direction, the Pacers would be sitting in a much different position. I don't think the difference between 2 or 3 games is really that big of a problem.

    If the records against those teams were 1-4, instead of 1-3, for the majority of them, then it would be a different feel IMHO.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    This has to do with why we aren't receiving much attention, and to your point, my thinking is that for teams that are in the playoffs, the ones that we will need to beat, we do not have a winning record against ANY. If the other teams in the playoffs have winning records against us, even if they have a worst record on their season schedule, that still means they ideally should have the upper hand on us.

    Granted we are tied in the season serious with some teams, but I believe Orlando has beat us 3 out of 4 times this year, I do not care if their record is a whopping 1 game below ours, lol.

    We loss 2 games and we are the 6th seed in the east, it is not like we are the clear cut 3rd team in the east, that is just where our season schedule and play has allowed us to be.

    of the eastern conference playoff teams we are 7th in conference record, only beating out NY.
    So basically we should just ignore the entire season worth of wins/losses and only focus on a hand full of games?

    Not hardly. We should look at the entire body of work, and use ALL the supporting evidence in our conclusions, instead of cherry picking which wins mean something, and which wins do not.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I was worried about that too...but then I was looking at the schedule and this is our breakdown of wins and losses:

    Single Night: 3-3
    First Night of B2B: 2-4
    Second Night of B2B: 3-6
    First Night of B2B2B: 0-1

    And six of our losses came in that 2 week stretch of schedule from Hell. All six were back to backs, and we won a "Single Night" against Philly in between. And they weren't playing well and they were playing without George Hill at least for the first 4 games if I remember correctly. They got into a funk and couldn't shake it.

    My point is, I think our guys try to overthink how they go about playing good teams in any kind of back to back situations. Because they have a worse record in the opening night of a back to back situation than they do on the 2nd against these good teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Idk if anyone else has noticed but outside of Miami and Chicago, there are no dominant teams. And don't tell me we don't have a winning record against the EC playoff foes. Have to remember that throughout the season it seems we meet a lot of these teams on the tail end of 3 gamers.
    Here you go, check out what was posted by aamcguy, thing is we were not a better than a 50-50 team with a single night game. Also remember we are not the only team in the league playing a rigorous schedule, everyone is in the same boat, every team has injuries, every team gets tired.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I don't get when people say that we don't deserve any coverage because we haven't won anything in the postseason...the regular season is just as important as the postseason. And it allows you to do things or try out things that you wouldn't be able to do in the playoffs. And honestly, you get to see how you play against an assortment of different styles. Not to mention it determines seeding. Most articles I have read recently STILL assume either Boston or Orlando will be the 3 seed.

    And how close the race in the East is SHOULD be a story. Instead, it's the same "West is so even" story. However, the East teams ranked 3-9 are practically identical to the West teams ranked 3-10.

    But we played 5 games in a week, have comeback wins over Houston and New York, beat Washington, then beat the Thunder before finally losing to Boston in a game where neither team played well. And what gets taken out of that week by the media is that Boston put us in our place. Nobody who doesn't pay attention to the Pacers will really know that they won 4 in a row, which included the Thunder and 2 other playoff teams.
    The 2010-11 Spurs, Heat, Lakers and Bulls would disagree.

    All of those teams had great regular seasons, and with the exception of the Heat all had poor playoff showings. (Chi was actually decent, but struggling against the 8 seed, beating ATL, then getting destroyed by Miami isn't great)

    winning 60 some games is relatively useless, what matters is chemistry and health come playoff time. Hell, homecourt isn't that vital.

  24. #43
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So you're saying that the Heat would struggle with the Bucks then?
    Yes, clearly.

    Extremism fever, catch it!

    *walks away in silence, slightly disappointed*

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Yes, clearly.
    I like how you chopped off the parentheses, where I point out that it was a rhetorical question.

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    BoilerUpMan Really?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So basically we should just ignore the entire season worth of wins/losses and only focus on a hand full of games?

    Not hardly. We should look at the entire body of work, and use ALL the supporting evidence in our conclusions, instead of cherry picking which wins mean something, and which wins do not.
    I could beat slow 15 yr old kids running a 100 meter dash, 82 times out of 100, but if go against guys my own age and can never consistently beat them and I have a losing record against most of them, well when I have to go against them in a big tournament I am not worried about those 82 wins against the 15 yr old kids I'm worried about the competition that I am going to be facing.
    Why so SERIOUS

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  28. #46
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I like how you chopped off the parentheses, where I point out that it was a rhetorical question.
    Actually I chopped it off there because that's when I stopped reading.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Just for fun I looked up ATL's records against playoff teams. They've won a whopping 2 matchups against playoff teams and lost 5.

    Bulls 1-3
    Heat 1-2
    Pacers 2-1
    Boston 0-1
    Orlando 2-0
    Knicks 1-1
    Philly 0-3

    So should Atlanta should feel confident going into the playoffs?
    Last edited by Since86; 04-10-2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: cant count

  30. #48
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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    I see what you mean now; I'm quickly skimming through posts at the moment and didn't bother to keep going after the opening line.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    I could beat slow 15 yr old kids running a 100 meter dash, 82 times out of 100, but if go against guys my own age and can never consistently beat them and I have a losing record against most of them, well when I have to go against them in a big tournament I am not worried about those 82 wins against the 15 yr old kids I'm worried about the competition that I am going to be facing.
    So now you're comparing NBA teams playing against NBA teams like an adult running against a teenager? Okay.....


    Let me make this a bit more simple. Go look at the records of the other playoff teams against playoff teams and see what they are. I bet you'll find that they don't have very many winning matchups either.

    I understand your reservations when it comes to the Pacers. What you're failing to realize is that the other teams have the same exact problems.

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    Default Re: Has any 3rd place team received such little attention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So now you're comparing NBA teams playing against NBA teams like an adult running against a teenager? Okay.....


    Let me make this a bit more simple. Go look at the records of the other playoff teams against playoff teams and see what they are. I bet you'll find that they don't have very many winning matchups either.

    I understand your reservations when it comes to the Pacers. What you're failing to realize is that the other teams have the same exact problems.
    The 2 for Atlanta is more than 0 for us, also yeah the comparison, was just to show I care about the teams I will be facing, not the ones that I have beat to get there.

    And if I am Atlanta, give me those teams I beat during the season series and I will fill a lot more comfortable playing them than those teams I did not win against.
    Why so SERIOUS

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