Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 5
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
  • #1

    Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

    There has been a lot of talk about how small ball won this game & make no mistake that in this particular game in this circumstance it certainly did.

    However do not under any circumstance think for one moment that this is vindication for Jim O’Brien’s idea of basketball. There is a complete and total difference between what Frank used tonight on the floor and what Jim would try and use on the floor every night.

    Going small can work if the players are faster, stronger and more athletic than the larger players that you are replacing. Well certainly none of these players that played tonight are as strong as David West (Lou might be close but I’m guessing West is still stronger) and nobody is faster than Darren Collison, but other than that the group that ended the game was faster, stronger & more athletic than the group they replaced.

    Jim’s idea of going small was just that, going small. His only goal in life was to spread the floor and open up driving lanes. That is not what this group did tonight, they got at it defensively first and then proceeded to outrebound the Knicks as a group as well. See that was the priority, not spreading the floor and not getting up quicker shots. We turned this game around with defense, rebounding and superstar type play from Danny Granger.

    Ok, show of hands. How many of us were convinced after the third quarter that this game was over? I won’t deny it; I was convinced that once Chandler hit that and 1 play in the third the game was all but out of reach.

    How impressive is it that this was the best comeback win of the year? Well why was it so impressive other than the fact that they did come back to win it? Simple the previous best comeback win of the season was just the game before vs. the Rockets.

    Now for all of our collective health and sanity I would like them to not have to have a mad dash comeback to win these games. But honestly for pure spectacle and entertainment value you really can’t beat this.

    Of course the game could have ended up very differently than it did and if it would have continued down the path that we were on the in the 2nd & 3rd I would have really suggested that Tyson Chandler just be named the DPOY right after the game. He absolutely disrupts our offense. Granger is the only player who will take it to him on our team as everyone else pulls up for jumpers or settles for some wild flailing shot. He really is the one thing on the Knicks that just scares me if we face them in the playoffs. Don’t get me wrong Mello is great as a scorer but pretty much that is about what he does and frankly Danny can usually stay close enough to him to equal him out. But his shot blocking is a real pain the backside.

    Look I’ve taken a lot of flak from people over the years when I compare Danny to Reggie. Nobody wants to hear me when I say that it took Reggie 7 years & finally getting a good coach and good surrounding cast to finally break through to the next level as a player. Does that sound familiar? It should because this is Danny’s 7th season and he finally has a good surrounding cast and a good coach to go with him. He had a good play off series last year vs. the Bulls (just like Reggie had a good series vs. the Knicks the year before we broke through). Both of them stepped back on scoring during that 7th season in an attempt to make the team better and both had to step up at times to take over games.

    There is not as much difference between the two players as people want to think.

    People are acting like tonight is the first game Danny has come to play this season and are forgetting his game vs. the Timberwolves or the taking over in O.T. vs. the Cavaliers or destroying the Nets or his game vs. the Rockets where not only did he have a big shooting game but he had a game saving block. Not to be disrespectful of Reggie but how many game winning blocks did he make?

    Look it’s a losing battle to try and compare the two because Reggie is an icon and rightfully so, but I’m telling you guys that we have one of the all-time great Pacers playing in his prime right now in a Pacers uniform. Yes haters I said he is one of the all time great Pacer and I am sticking to it.

    So when I see people compare Reggie to Danny I think of it as a compliment, then when I see people disparage Danny it frustrates me because I wonder if they truly are comparing the actual players or the highlight legend?

    Can we please put to bed the notion that Danny Granger can never be the best player on a good team? We now officially are the 3rd seed in the East with less than 15 games left in the season and if you project this over an 82 game season we would have 50+ wins. That by definition is a good team and Danny Granger is still our best player.

    Moving on.

    Look we all hate Joey Crawford (well most of us do anyway besides Uncle Buck) but I’m telling you that had he not been there tonight you might very well have lost that game. I kept wondering what borough Eric Lewis was from as he was calling virtually everything against the Pacers. While I don’t like Joey he doesn’t tend to get caught up in superstar calls (unlike Bavetta) because usually he is too caught up in himself. However he did do a quick ejection of J.R. Smith and he did give a flagrant 1 to Shumpert over the objection of Eric Lewis who was just going to call a foul.

    On that note though to kind of tell you how strong David West is, early in the game (I’m pretty sure it was the 1st quarter) Landry Fields was trying to come baseline after an offensive rebound and while the refs. had their heads turned the other way West stiff arms him in the chest causing Fields to crumple backwards about 3’ as though he were hit mid chest by an Iron Man repulser beam.

    How does that Brandon Rush for Lou Amundson trade look now?

    Also I think it is very important to note a couple of other things before we hit the main thoughts.

    1. Some starters would pout, gripe, complain or act disinterested if they were benched for an entire quarter especially when the team is making a comeback. Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert & David West were up cheering on the bench as though they were Lance Stephenson. That shows both character on their part and team spirit. Not every player would be like that.
    2. Frank Vogel threw out the egg timer. Other than taking out Dahntay Jones for Paul George and taking out Danny at the end of the game he let that unit stay together for the entire 4th quarter. Kudos to Frank, he is one hell of a coach and we are lucky to have him.

    Ok, let’s do tonight’s version in grade format.

    David West: C+ The fact that he got up after that Shumpert foul and was not limping was a good thing, that looked ugly when it happened. Look it’s no shame here, he just is not quick enough to be able to guard Mello and I will even forgive him for not being able to take advantage of him on the other end because the Knicks were quick to double the ball and Chandler just really alters a lot of shots even if he doesn’t block them. He got some good rest tonight so I think the team is going to need to lean on him early and often vs. the wizards tomorrow.

    Roy Hibbert: B He tried to get it going but the Knicks were just in quick attack mode for the 2nd and 3rd quarters Blitzing the paint like we were Poland in 1939. They were hitting their outside shots (early in the game they were hitting three’s at a blistering 70% nailing 7 of their first 10) so that took Roy out and believe it or not they often had Roy rotate over to guard Mello as West was just getting burned. Obviously Mello’s eyes lit up when this occurred. Roy also had a lot of rest in the second half so tomorrow we will need a big game from him. Again I can’t state enough how much Roy really supports his team mates when he is on the bench.

    Paul George: B+ Picked it up in the 4th and was a huge part of the comeback. He was everywhere on defense and really hit the boards. Got to the line 10 times this game which may have been his biggest contribution of the night. Getting your opponent in the penalty early in a quarter forces them to be more tentative on defense and Paul did a really good job of exploiting that. Once again he another 3 steal night which should bring him back into a tie for 10th in the NBA. I still shake my head when I hear people complain that he and Danny can’t co-exist or that Danny is holding him back. I’d say that one two punch paid off well tonight.

    Darren Collison: C He played.

    Tyler Hansbrough: C+ Ok, so now Tyler decides he’s going to rebound. I’ll take that any game of the year. Didn’t shoot very well but he had issues with both Chandler and believe it or not Harrellson. Like Roy and David we are really going to need his energy and production tonight so that we don’t fall into the trap game that the Wizards might very well be. You know they are not going to want to be swept in the season series so they will be playing for keeps.

    Dahntay Jones: A The turnaround started right here folks. Dahntay was the first Pacer to get in Mello’s jersey and start bothering his shot. He denied him any open lane and contested every shot. While Mello is certainly stronger he could not bully Jones down low. Also Dahntay gave you 12 points and 6 boards in limited time as well. Definitely a big time player tonight.

    Leandro Barbosa: A- Remember how we’ve talked in the past about how he can either shoot you in or out of a game depending on how he is going. Well tonight he had it going and hit 50% of his shots along with getting two steals. Also something that just doesn’t show up on any stat column is the fact that he played with a lot of energy and a lot of speed and even though the Knicks were even smaller than us he outhustled them routinely in the 4th quarter.

    George Hill: B+ Outstanding defense and decent court vision, but in the name of everything that is holy stop falling in love with the 3 point shot. Again over half of his attempts from the floor were from behind the arc and he didn’t hit a one of them. I’m not complaining about his game btw, he was every bit as important a player in the 4th as any of the others but in general he can become enamored with shooting out there when sometimes he could step into a more natural shot.

    Lou Amundson: A- This is one game and one player that you absolutely can NOT look at the box score and understand his value on the floor. Simply put he outworked the entire Knicks team in the 4th and Chandler got worn down trying to chase him. He is the main difference between a Jim O’Brien small ball vs. Frank Vogel small ball. Jim would have had Troy Murphy playing the 5 and believe me it was not for his rebounding or iron curtain like defense. He was there to spread the floor. Well Lou was there to spread the floor as well, but in a different way. The floor was spread with Knicks being bumped and bodied up on defense by Amundson. I know a lot of people like Rush but this trade really worked out well for both teams and both players. This may have been the very definition of a good trade for both teams.

    Danny Granger: A+ Saving the best for last. I want everybody to take this little nugget into consideration tonight as well. Not only was Danny very good but when he went nuts in the 4th he was playing out of position with a group of players around him that he doesn’t normally play a lot with. Sure he plays with everyone but for the most part thanks to Frank’s egg timer Danny spends the vast majority of his time on the floor with the other starters. That fourth quarter was just simply amazing from him and what made it even more memorable for me was that not only was Danny hitting shot after big shot but he also was grabbing boards and directly guarded the Knicks best player during that quarter. The effort he put forth tonight really should get him more local recognition than it will. I am on a campaign of sorts to make sure that people know that he is now in our top 10 in scoring and that he is still a young man and can get many more points in his career. Hopefully it is here with us and I would love for him to retire a Pacer.

    We had a great crowd tonight and man was I ever mad that it looked like we were going to provide them with a turd of a game to watch. But we took what would have been one of the worst losses of the season and turned it into one of the best wins.

    Let’s be honest here, it shouldn’t have been this close. The Knicks were missing Linn, Amare, Jefferies and Walker so really by all rights we should have won this early and often.

    But that’s not what occurred so instead what we had was a character check and our character was not found wanting.

    We’ve got some really big games coming up and we can NOT overlook the Wizards. But overall there is nothing from the fans stand point of celebrating this win and if Derrick Rose doesn’t mind I think we need some dancing fruit. Well truth be told I hope he does mind.



    Oh and this is for all of you who keep saying Danny and Paul can't co-exist.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

    Originally posted by Peck View Post

    Look I’ve taken a lot of flak from people over the years when I compare Danny to Reggie. Nobody wants to hear me when I say that it took Reggie 7 years & finally getting a good coach and good surrounding cast to finally break through to the next level as a player. Does that sound familiar? It should because this is Danny’s 7th season and he finally has a good surrounding cast and a good coach to go with him. He had a good play off series last year vs. the Bulls (just like Reggie had a good series vs. the Knicks the year before we broke through). Both of them stepped back on scoring during that 7th season in an attempt to make the team better and both had to step up at times to take over games.

    There is not as much difference between the two players as people want to think.

    People are acting like tonight is the first game Danny has come to play this season and are forgetting his game vs. the Timberwolves or the taking over in O.T. vs. the Cavaliers or destroying the Nets or his game vs. the Rockets where not only did he have a big shooting game but he had a game saving block. Not to be disrespectful of Reggie but how many game winning blocks did he make?
    ^^^ This ^^^

    Danny is what we've been looking for. Regardless of early season and our complaints of his shooting percentage early on, Danny thrives on stepping up. He WANTS to take the last shot. And, he enjoys the idea of playing clutch basketball. He's not perfect, but neither was Reggie. We rarely speak of Reggie's first three quarters of basketball. What we do celebrate is his desire and BALLS to finish the game when it was on the line. This is what I see in Danny.

    And for all the Danny trade rumors and thoughts, primarily based on the emergence of Paul George... Who was Danny looking for after the buzzer. That's right, he was waiting for a Paul George chest bump. I do not think that Paul makes Danny expendable. Moreover, I think they both know that, together, they are the future of this team. God I hope this is true.

    Great thread as always Peck.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

      Danny Granger most certainly can be and is the best player on a good team, the question is, can he be the best player on a championship team? I, like most others, don't have great faith that he can. With that said you can most certainly make the case that he is the 2nd best Pacer in the NBA era. The problem is we haven't won a championship in that same era. I'm most certainly not a Danny hater, and if you have read my posts you would know that I am typically a "sunshiner", but I'm trying to put it all into context.

      Also, Danny is most certainly clutch, the problem is, he has to follow in the footsteps of an all time great clutch performer. Another thing, Danny is a very good, maybe even great shooter, but what made Reggie so special is that he was not just a great shooter, he was arguably the best to ever walk the earth!
      Last edited by TheDavisBrothers; 04-04-2012, 04:28 AM.
      Did you know Antonio and Dale aren’t actually brothers?

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

        Lou deserves an A+. (Minor quibble.)

        The officiating, though not particularly accurate imo, was very fair. For every call that went the Pacers' way (Lou's forearm to Chandler), there was one that went for the Knicks (Lou got some body on Chandler, but that was simply just a highlight block,). I've actually grown to appreciate Joey C., albeit in an antagonistic way. JR Smith is such a dumbass.

        As much credit as Vogel deserves for finding the right lineup and sticking with it, you have to wonder what the hell he was thinking having West or Tyler play Melo. Even on a switch, that kind of matchup is indefensible. No confusion on Dahntay d-ing him up though. From being a former teammate to just being a player who relishes defensive challenges, Dahntay is a great defensive spark off the bench. And he's completely confident in that corner three. He looks like he's George Hill with three seconds left on the shot clock.

        Can we please put to bed the notion that Danny Granger can never be the best player on a good team?
        I'm not sure this has ever been said untrollingly.


        Was the title of this OT supposed to be "The Pacers' New (York) Groove"? Just spitballin'.


        Lastly, Mike Woodson looks like the evil version of Mr. Potato Head. Awesome game, y'all.
        You Got The Tony!!!!!!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

          So, I'm on a business trip in France. Meaning I'm not only missing the games but I don't have the luxury of staying up late to listen to the radio feed or find the game on League Pass Broadband.

          Last night, my phone went off at just before 9 pm US time (3 am French time) when my wife - forgetting the time difference - texted me that it was a good thing I wasn't at the game because I'd be extremely angry that the Pacers were down 15 at the end of the third quarter. I fumbled a response and went back to sleep, fully expecting to see a PD explosion this morning when I logged in.

          I did, but certainly not in the way I imagined.

          Looking at the Game Book (for those not familiar, it's the box score split into quarters/halves/cumulative, so it gives a little better impression of the flow of the game), it looks like:

          - we did not come out completely flat, which is what I actually was thinking when I heard how far we were down.

          - Melo and Fields were tearing us a new one in the first, but cooled off in the second.

          - The score differential at the end of the half did NOT look like it was due to defensive lapses from the Pacers (Knicks shooting a lower percentage than in the first as well as only getting to the line twice), at least not in the lane. Looks like the differential was due to 3-point shooting (good for the Knicks, horrible for the Pacers) - were we just not rotating well to get the open man on defense (as usually happens)? Did we fall in love with the 3 again or did the Knicks cut off our access to the paint?

          - Third quarter increased differential looked like both a defensive issue (giving up too many FTs to the Knicks) and offensive (still bricking 3s instead of capitalizing on our 50% shooting from 2 point range).

          - Figuring out the fourth quarter is often hard from the paper report because the last few minutes can be very unrealistic due to things like garbage time or fouling to get possession of the ball. It looks, however, like the Pacers locked down the defense and also focused on keeping the Knicks from getting second-chance points. Danny making all 3 of his 3s looked huge, but more important was that we took far fewer shots than in the previous 2 quarters - game slowed down to our pace? Making more shots instead of missing multiple chances in one possession?


          Whatever the case, I am happy with the outcome in front of a home crowd, and just as irritated about missing the game as I was when I found out I'd be out of the country this week.

          On some of Peck's points:

          I think it is perfectly fine to compare Danny to Reggie. I think it is too soon to reach a conclusion, which people tend to want to do.

          I really like the description of the difference between current small ball and small ball of the previous regime. While I think it is a little unfair to blame JOB for the lack of athleticism of the players he had to go small with, it is perfectly valid to say that he focused more on where the players would be on offense in order to facilitate the outside shot vs. having players use their athleticism to try to play a different version of a game that still uses the inside and outside.
          Last edited by BillS; 04-04-2012, 04:44 AM. Reason: Hit submit too soon
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

            Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
            Lou deserves an A+. (Minor quibble.)
            Here. Here.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

              I still get very impatient/upset about the idea that small ball is bad or small ball is good or any of the absolutes that so many in this forum seemed to flal in love with over the past 4 years.

              I don't care if it is small ball, big ball, tall ball, medium ball - there is one thing that works 100% of the time. Aggressive ball and that is what the Pacers played in the 4th quarter - aggressive ball. That works every time it is tried. Doesn't guarantee a win, but it guarantees good play.

              I do however really like the lineup that was used.
              George Hill
              Barbosa
              Paul George
              Granger
              Lou

              what don't we have in that lineup? Any slow players. Any players who are major mismatches on defense (assuming the PF isn't a low post scorer). I would like to see that lineup more. But then any lineup that is aggressive and has no defensive weaknesses is a lineup I will embrace.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                I wish I could go back and re-watch the end of the 4th quarter to verify this, but it seemed like Paul George was given the ball and asked to make something happen on three straight offensive possessions. I've noticed this before in tight games. We rarely run our offense through him at any other time in the game, but we do it a lot when the game is on the line. He rewarded us with a few trips to the line tonight. I'd like to see what other people think about this.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  I still get very impatient/upset about the idea that small ball is bad or small ball is good or any of the absolutes that so many in this forum seemed to flal in love with over the past 4 years.

                  I don't care if it is small ball, big ball, tall ball, medium ball - there is one thing that works 100% of the time. Aggressive ball and that is what the Pacers played in the 4th quarter - aggressive ball. That works every time it is tried. Doesn't guarantee a win, but it guarantees good play.

                  I do however really like the lineup that was used.
                  George Hill
                  Barbosa
                  Paul George
                  Granger
                  Lou

                  what don't we have in that lineup? Any slow players. Any players who are major mismatches on defense (assuming the PF isn't a low post scorer). I would like to see that lineup more. But then any lineup that is aggressive and has no defensive weaknesses is a lineup I will embrace.
                  I love that lineup. Its quick and there aren't many disadvantages, if any. I have been getting frustrated with Frank's inability to change things up when he needs to, and he proved me wrong.
                  Senior at the University of Louisville.
                  Greenfield ---> The Ville

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                    I cant get over the man crush I have for Danny right now. He has been playing like he has team mates all season long. From time to time I get disappointed when he doesn't hit the 30 mark in scoring, but I will trade that any day for a win.

                    Here's to you, the captain! DANNY GRANGERRRRRR!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                      I knew the Danny/Reggie comparison from Peck was coming

                      Great 4th quarter comeback by the Pacers but let's not go crazy here, by the way I've been saying forever that Danny should be our Rashard Lewis or Ray Allen and people get offended, to me Danny's best game is outside the 3 point line, he could be even better if he had somebody that could penetrate and kick it to him for an open 3.
                      Last edited by vnzla81; 04-04-2012, 08:54 AM.
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                        I don't know, Danny has been doing an outstanding job cutting through the lane this year.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                          Look we all hate Joey Crawford (well most of us do anyway besides Uncle Buck)
                          Add me to that list too. I think he does a good job of maintaining control of a game normally and I thought he called a pretty good game last night. In fact I disagree on any idea that the game was called unfavorably against the Pacers. I didn't see any calls that really stood out, but I heard a lot of fans booing calls that I was making to myself before the whistle blew against the Pacers.



                          I have to disagree with Peck on his Collison = C grade. Once they had West vs Melo and Melo was driving by West they clearly tried to run a set of post-ups the other way to make Melo pay. It was DC who continued to struggle to feed the post in a timely fashion and kept leaving West hung out to dry. It's a serious problem and when you notice Paul George being used to feed a play or initiate a play I think this is why.

                          DC seems like a really nice kid and I don't doubt his effort at all. But there are skills that some people have and some don't. He doesn't set up his passing lanes very well and he's definitely not timely with his passing. By the time he reads something or tries to make an entry pass its typically after the post guy has been forced out of the good position he already had. And DC did this to Roy last night as well.



                          Rebounding - this was a specific strategy change where Lou would find and front Chandler and the baseline wing would come in and squeeze Chandler into Lou and take away his ability to jump over Lou and keep rebounds alive. Once they did that you had rebounds going over those 3 players or in front of those 3 players and the "sandwich" guys would simply release and track it down. It completely paralyzed what Chandler had been doing.

                          Great strategy and great execution.



                          I did not walk out after the 3rd, but it was close. My wife wouldn't let me, so props to her. I also didn't shout out "You are losing to the Knicks and they suck!" but it was really close.


                          How awesome is it to see Danny dialed in like this. You forget what a guy that on fire looks like (for us at least). I mean we had Dun vs Denver, but Danny just had a couple of games in a row and in way more clutch situations.

                          He did miss a FT so maybe we can cut DC some slack on the Houston game now.



                          Man was Melo killing it. That was quite a display of scoring prowess.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                            Originally posted by duke dynamite View Post
                            I don't know, Danny has been doing an outstanding job cutting through the lane this year.
                            I'm not saying that he shouldn't penetrate(guys like Ray do)
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Back in the New York Groove

                              By the way I think we found a lineup that could help us beat Orlando, Atlanta and probably win some games against Miami.
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
                              Working...
                              X