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Thread: Luck vs. RG3

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    Default Luck vs. RG3

    Didn't see a current thread for this specific topic, and since it's obviously the main Colts topic leading up to the draft, figured I'd get one rolling.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    My take --- I'm a Luck guy. Obviously my only contact, being a joe schmoe from Indiana, is watching video footage and reading expert/scout analysis. I've done a ton of both for RG3 and Luck, and I'm strongly in the Luck camp.

    The big buzz after RG3's pro day was how awesome it was. I watched it. It wasn't bad at all. Luck had a lot to live up to the next day. But by most measures, Luck's performance on pro day surpassed RG3's. RG3 won the combine; Luck won pro day. Thing about the combine is... it's only measuring athleticism. While Luck is very athletic, RG3 is a freak in this regard. But we're not a track-and-field team. We're a football team. When taken in that context, Luck fits the billl better.

    Luck also comes from an NFL pedigree and has had football in his blood and in his home since he was in the womb. He had so much attention on him yesterday, and so many expectations, and he didn't seem fazed whatsoever. They waited almost 2 hours before letting Luck throw and the anticipation had built up quite a bit. It seemed like everyone watching was nervous except for Luck himself.

    Those are some intangible reasons why I push for Luck. Getting down to football, I'm going to say that their stats are basically a push. College stats don't go terribly far in the NFL... there are guys who were superstars in college and who won the Heisman who were outplayed by guys drafted below them with lesser college credentials. Manning, himself, was a Heisman runner-up. When looking at stats, there's nothing really that separates the two except rushing TDs. RG3 is a faster guy, so he's going to be more of a running threat.

    One side note, though, is that Luck produced his comparable numbers in 1 less year than RG3, and Luck's utilization was generally less than RG3s (Baylor was a spread offense, and also passed the ball a lot more). Luck's was the pro-style and they ran it a lot. So RG3s numbers can be inflated a lot more than Luck's.

    Neither QB has any major flaws. I might nitpick RG3 a little more than Luck, but I think both are going to be fantastic prospects. I can't remember 2 more complete QBs coming out of college, and these guys are in the same draft.

    The turning points for me are in watching their stance and throwing motion and decision-making.

    RG3 has a fairly mechanical/scripted stance/throwing motion. It's a more aggressive, violent action/motion. It's like he has to put more on it to match Luck's velocity.

    Luck's stance and throwing motion are beautifully natural and smooth and comfortable. There's nothing about his motion that indicates he's straining. He's got tremendous bounce in his stance. It doesn't look like he's throwing it hard, but the ball comes rocketing out. It's a very fluid, efficient, compact motion. He comes over the shoulder beautifully.

    Luck has a fantastic, football build and stature --- very sturdy. RG3 has an awesome physique... but this is football, not modelling.

    Luck's ability to make throws from a non-standard platform are tremendous. His anticipation of pressure and ability to escape and then ability deliver a sharp pass on the money is just uncanny.

    I feel like Luck's ball placement, leading of a receiver into a successful position, and accuracy are higher than RG3s. I feel like Luck can thread the needle better than RG3.

    Again, it's not that RG3 isn't bad at these things... just that Luck does it better.

    I know the big topic lately has been arm strength. I personally felt this was funny.... anyone who watched Luck throw a 50-yard bomb from his knees while falling down vs. ASU should not doubt his arm strength. I never did. Yesterday at pro day, it was obvious even scouts wanted some confirmation from Luck that he had a cannon. So he steps back and delivers a perfect 75-yard pass in the air. Not many people can do that. I'm not sure RG3 can do that. What was perceived as a weakness for Luck and strength for RG3 might have been reversed at pro day yesterday.

    RG3 conducted his pro day in a closed facility; Luck had his outside on a very windy day --- and *elected* to throw against the wind! This is crucial on a number of aspects. 1) It shows a toughness to Luck that you have to have, the acceptance that you will have to play in bad conditions, and 2) he executed brilliantly against it. He completed 47 of 50 passes and 2 of those were receiver drops. So in less than ideal throwing conditions, Luck misfires on only 1 pass. Incredible. This is a guy you want running your offense.

    In looking at both QB's last bowl game performances, RG3 was backseat to his own teammate and even to the opposing QB, whereas Luck completely dominated his Bowl Game and only lost it because Stanford's kicker had the worst kicking game in recent memory.

    RG3 is a better QB prospect than 97% of the prospects that have come out in the past 5-10 years. But Luck is better than every prospect in that time frame, and likely even farther back. In fact, I agree with the old schoolers who say you gotta go back to Elway in '83 to find a better prospect, and even then I don't know if I'd place Elway that much higher! I even think Luck looks better than Manning did at this point in their careers --- as good as Peyton was coming out of college, there were some question marks around his game --- arm strength, can't win big games, happy feet, etc... It's why Leaf, even with his flaws (especially regarding mental/maturity aspects), was able to close the gap leading up to the draft. RG3 is a stronger than Leaf, in my opinion, so Luck's competition is stronger. I look at Luck and think, "Lord, there's nothing glaring that he needs obvious improvement in... he's extremely good at everything."

    This article had some nice tidbits after yesterday's pro day:

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...ew-luck-looked


    More on how Andrew Luck looked

    March, 23, 2012

    By Paul Kuharsky

    Some thoughts that came out of Andrew Luck's pro day Thursday at Stanford.


    He confirmed he’ll have a private session with Colts' officials at Stanford in early April, Mike Chappell of the Indianapolis Star reported. That explains why GM Ryan Grigson and coach Chuck Pagano didn’t feel they had to be there.
    •Colts quarterback coach Clyde Christensen told Chappell the workout looked like Luck’s game film, steady and solid. He also talked about Luck vs., Robert Griffin III: "I don't think you go wrong either way. You go back and forth and keep looking for something that you can put a little red mark, that they can't do this or can't do that, that maybe there's something (wrong) character-wise. And you can't find one on either kid.”
    •ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said the session was “surgical,” and praised Luck’s consistent ball placement that gets receivers right where he wants them.
    •Steve Young praised the athleticism and, especially, his feet. With Luck, the whole playbook will be open, “guard rail to guard rail.”
    Trent Dilfer said Luck’s ability to make “off-platform throws” is unique.
    •RG3 had a great pro day too. Players are supposed to look great on their pro days. We’re entering the season where we will begin to hear a lot about why the conventional thinking that Luck is a better choice than Griffin is flawed. It makes for compelling TV and reading. But I like what Matt Williamson from Scouts Inc. is saying. He loves Griffin and he loves the Redskins' trade to the second slot in the draft. But he says the Baylor quarterback has reached his ceiling, and that ceiling is No. 2 in the draft.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-23-2012 at 02:33 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    RG3's Pro Day did not impress me AT ALL. He did not take it seriously, whatsoever. Spent too much time jaw-jacking with teammates and friends, dancing to the loud-*** music blaring over the speakers, and going half-speed through his drills.


    That's not the mentality I want out of my Franchise Quarterback in any situation.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Luck is our guy..... if we draft RG3 for any reason i will be pissed

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    RG3's Pro Day did not impress me AT ALL. He did not take it seriously, whatsoever. Spent too much time jaw-jacking with teammates and friends, dancing to the loud-*** music blaring over the speakers, and going half-speed through his drills.


    That's not the mentality I want out of my Franchise Quarterback in any situation.
    Lol what, he was enjoying himself, he was making the passes he showed he had a good relationship with the guys around him and that they are together as a team.

    He showed what he needed to show, his character, his leadership, his accuracy, his footwork, his arm-strength.

    He somewhat reminds me of Aaron Rodgers in the way he was joking around and having a good time. Also Peyton was/is one of the biggest Jokesters ever, I am sure that when you get RGIII in a serious situation he will be serious and get the job done, just like the rest of these guys.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    By the way I want us to grab Luck...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Lol what, he was enjoying himself, he was making the passes he showed he had a good relationship with the guys around him and that they are together as a team.

    He showed what he needed to show, his character, his leadership, his accuracy, his footwork, his arm-strength.

    He somewhat reminds me of Aaron Rodgers in the way he was joking around and having a good time. Also Peyton was/is one of the biggest Jokesters ever, I am sure that when you get RGIII in a serious situation he will be serious and get the job done, just like the rest of these guys.
    I don't mind the "looseness" of RG3's pro day so much, although it was sort of a turn-off.... I just felt like Luck showed better stuff during his pro day. RG3 had a few miscues, passes didn't zip as well and that was indoors, to better receivers.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-23-2012 at 02:37 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    lol @ a athlete having too much fun, not being 100% serious.

    Give me a break. Being distracted is one thing, but loose and just having fun is another

    I think Luck fits the Colts system better then RG3, and personally with the weak o-line is Washington I think RG3 fits the system here a little better.

    I would not be upset if we get RG3, nor would I be upset if the Colts take RG3 and we get Luck.

    I heard a announcer sat it last week, and I tend to agree. RG3 is a freak and a QB who would be number 1, but Luck is an amazing athlete who ran a pro system in college and is a number 1 of any draft in the past 5-10 years

    IMO neither team will be the "loser" of the two, though I do wonder if we will look back on this draft the same way we did the Manning/Leaf draft (though to be fair I think the wonderlick carried less weights back then, if it was even around)

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    If we draft RGIII I'm going to be pissed.
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Luck > Griffin, and it's not really even close.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Shade and LH,

    Just curious, do you think Luck is leaps and bounds better then RG3?

    Or do you like him better for other reasons?

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Shade and LH,

    Just curious, do you think Luck is leaps and bounds better then RG3?

    Or do you like him better for other reasons?
    Whatever you're hinting at here, I can assure you I prefer Luck for football reasons.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Whatever you're hinting at here, I can assure you I prefer Luck for football reasons.


    Not sure what you hinting at here, I am asking what those football reasons are (or if it is the system, etc).........................

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    If we draft RG3, Irsay will by lynched within 4 hours.
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Shade and LH,

    Just curious, do you think Luck is leaps and bounds better then RG3?

    Or do you like him better for other reasons?
    I just like all the good things I have been hearing. The most NFL-ready QB since our own Peyton Manning.

    Luck seems like a Manning-ish/Rodgers-ish kind of QB. It's what I've grown up watching and I don't want things to change, plus I think he's just going to be better.
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Shade and LH,

    Just curious, do you think Luck is leaps and bounds better then RG3?

    Or do you like him better for other reasons?
    I think Luck is smarter, stronger, and more durable than Griffin. Griffin is a bit more athletic.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Insider article:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/blog/...ro-day-workout

    The pro day workout of Stanford QB Andrew Luck was exactly what we expected to see from the presumptive No. 1 overall pick. Luck was surgical in his approach, made all the throws scouts want to see and delivered a message about his arm strength.




    Luck could have shown up on what was a cool, windy day, made 25 easy throws, thanked everyone for coming and called it a day without hurting himself, but he and quarterback coach George Whitfield Jr. -- who worked with Cam Newton leading up to the 2011 draft -- put together a script of 48 passes that had a higher degree of difficulty than we see at most pro days.




    [+] Enlarge
    AP Photo/Paul SakumaAndrew Luck's pro day highlighted the reasons he is the No. 1 overall prospect.

    They didn't ease into things, either. Luck's first 12 throws were termed "Heavy Metal" and intended to immediately show his ability to drive the ball downfield.

    The breakdown of the 48-pass script was as follows:

    • 46 percent shotgun snaps
    • 25 percent 5-step drops
    • 6 percent 3-step drops
    • 4 percent 7-step drops
    • 4 percent 1-step drops
    • 15 percent play-action

    • 25 percent under pressure/adjustment throws
    • 23 percent over 25 yards
    • 40 percent vertical throws

    Only three of Luck's 48 scripted passes were off the mark, and the only one that clearly missed the target was a throw to the back of the end zone late in the session on which Luck overthrew the receiver. He threw all of his scripted passes into the wind and was adjusting accordingly on his early throws, but from throw No. 10 on, Luck was nearly perfect.

    One thing in particular that stood out was Luck's elite ball placement. On the 45 scripted throws that could be considered accurate, all were either perfectly placed or within inches of being perfect. He was throwing to where his receivers needed to be, and they were following the ball rather than Luck following their route and throwing to the target. In a game scenario you would have said he was throwing his receivers open.

    For example, on a rollout toward the sideline to his left, Luck threw a ball to TE Coby Fleener that was low and away, forcing Fleener to go down and get it, and that was no accident. In live action it would have been away from a trailing defender in a place where only Fleener could make the catch.



    That consistency is one of the things that separated Luck's workout from that of Baylor's Robert Griffin III a day earlier. Griffin threw the ball accurately for the vast majority of his workout Wednesday, but he missed within the strike zone more often. He had a dozen or so throws that could be characterized that way, and while he was consistently hitting his targets, Griffin was not always on the bull's-eye like Luck.

    In all fairness, Griffin brings more "wow" factor to the table, which was evident in his workout. He snaps the ball off quicker, his ball travels faster and with more RPMs -- if Luck's zip is an 8 out of 10, Griffin has an 8.5 or 9 -- and Griffin is clearly the more explosive athlete. However, Luck showed much better ability to change the velocity of his throws, which is the case when studying these two on tape.



    Also, the throws Luck made under pressure included a variety of ways to simulate the pass rush, showing his ability to move his eyes, adjust and reset his feet, which were quicker than some give him credit for.

    Finally, Luck aimed to answer critics who raise those arm-strength issues, and he purposely threw all 48 passes into the wind. He finished the session by turning with the wind at his back and uncorking a pass that covered 75 yards in the air. Whether he'll admit it publicly or not, that throw was Luck's way of letting everyone know he heard the criticisms during the season, when he was simply making the throws necessary to allow his receivers to make plays, and closing the book on that issue.



    There has been something of a groundswell over the past day or so in terms of support for Griffin as the No. 1 overall pick -- and in many other years he would be -- but his workout reinforced my feeling that Luck is the right choice for the Indianapolis Colts.

    Both are elite in terms of skill level and mental makeup, and while they get it done in different ways, Luck and Griffin are clearly the top two prospects in this year's class. This is the first time since the Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch-Donovan McNabb debates in 1998 and 1999 that we have two quarterbacks so firmly entrenched atop the board.

    Luck and Griffin are both worthy of the top pick, but the problem for Griffin is that he happens to be in the same class as a once-in-a-generation prospect. Their transitions to the NFL will be different, with Luck coming from a pro-style attack and facing fewer adjustments, but Griffin is a perfect fit for the system of the Washington Redskins and the way coach Mike Shanahan teaches it, so things should work out for everyone.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-24-2012 at 12:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I think Luck is smarter, stronger, and more durable than Griffin. Griffin is a bit more athletic.
    RGIII is no slouch in smarts or strength, also people say Griffin is more athletic, but Luck is no slouch in that department, to be moving that fast or ha vertical that high, I would have to say it is pretty close, Luck also out broad jumped everyone at the combine I believe.

    I think both are very similar as far as intangibles, I just prefer Luck, I think their ceilings are about the same the same height, but Lucks floor is higher due to his previous experience running a pro style offense, and running some of his offense.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    From a high level, they do seem similar.... once I started really watching and watching and watching..... it becomes even more clear that RG3 isn't in Luck's stratosphere. Luck is a really special player.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I'm sure the Colts will pick Luck. I'm not going to lie to you though, I'm very nervous about a surprise RGIII pick since Grigson seems like a wildcard type personality. I really hope I'm wrong, because Luck is going to be a hall of famer.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Can anyone tell me when the team with the 1st overall pick can begin negotiations? Many times the #1 pick is already signed before the draft!
    I really hope we dont have to wait until draft night!

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Can anyone tell me when the team with the 1st overall pick can begin negotiations? Many times the #1 pick is already signed before the draft!
    I really hope we dont have to wait until draft night!
    I believe anytime, though I am not 100% positive.

    EDIT: Here is a post basically reaffirming everything I have heard

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...draft-process/

    Earlier today, we pointed out that, once Friday’s coin flips lock in the 2012 draft order, the Colts may sign Andrew Luck, or any other player whom they’d like to make the first overall pick in the draft. Unlike past years, the presence of a true rookie wage scale with little room to maneuver and few topics about which to negotiate, it’s far more likely that a contract will be signed before the draft begins.


    And given the ease with which first-round picks can now be negotiated, some of you have expressed concern regarding the ability of the Rams at No. 2 and then the Vikings at No. 3 and then the Browns at No. 4, and so on, to sign their first-round picks and make the first night of the draft less meaningful.


    Fear not. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells PFT that only the team holding the first overall pick may strike a deal in advance of the draft.


    So if (when) the Colts ink Luck, the Rams (or the team to which the Rams trade the second pick for the ability to take Robert Griffin III) will have to sit tight until the first night of the draft.

    EDIT 2:

    DATED Feb 22

    Here's an interesting bit of news, courtesy of Pro Football Talk: the Indianapolis Colts could sign potential 2012 draftee Andrew Luck as early as Friday. That's right, once the NFL has officially locked in the draft order with a couple of coin flips on Friday, the Colts will be on the clock and can begin negotiating with whoever it is they'd like to make the first overall pick in the draft.

    http://indiana.sbnation.com/2011/12/...ck-in-jeopardy

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I believe anytime, though I am not 100% positive.

    EDIT: Here is a post basically reaffirming everything I have heard

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...draft-process/

    Earlier today, we pointed out that, once Friday’s coin flips lock in the 2012 draft order, the Colts may sign Andrew Luck, or any other player whom they’d like to make the first overall pick in the draft. Unlike past years, the presence of a true rookie wage scale with little room to maneuver and few topics about which to negotiate, it’s far more likely that a contract will be signed before the draft begins.


    And given the ease with which first-round picks can now be negotiated, some of you have expressed concern regarding the ability of the Rams at No. 2 and then the Vikings at No. 3 and then the Browns at No. 4, and so on, to sign their first-round picks and make the first night of the draft less meaningful.


    Fear not. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells PFT that only the team holding the first overall pick may strike a deal in advance of the draft.


    So if (when) the Colts ink Luck, the Rams (or the team to which the Rams trade the second pick for the ability to take Robert Griffin III) will have to sit tight until the first night of the draft.

    EDIT 2:

    DATED Feb 22

    Here's an interesting bit of news, courtesy of Pro Football Talk: the Indianapolis Colts could sign potential 2012 draftee Andrew Luck as early as Friday. That's right, once the NFL has officially locked in the draft order with a couple of coin flips on Friday, the Colts will be on the clock and can begin negotiating with whoever it is they'd like to make the first overall pick in the draft.

    http://indiana.sbnation.com/2011/12/...ck-in-jeopardy
    Thanks! I appreciate that. I was thinking the same thing as you were but I was unaware of the coin flip. To be honest, if I was Goodell, I would not allow the pick to be negotiated until draft night. The reason is that the draft is on prime time. How many more viewers will they get "IF" nobody is signed? Clue: IF the Colts sign Luck before, I have no interest until the Colts pick again. If they dont sign him, I will be watching it for sure!! Thanks again!

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    If they let the team with the 1st pick sign their player, then why not allow the 2nd team to follow suite once that happens?

    Although I guess the draft would technically be starting early if teams can start making their picks.

    On that note, why not just make everyone wait til the draft starts?

    Why the exception for the team with the 1st pick?

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    If they let the team with the 1st pick sign their player, then why not allow the 2nd team to follow suite once that happens?

    Although I guess the draft would technically be starting early if teams can start making their picks.

    On that note, why not just make everyone wait til the draft starts?

    Why the exception for the team with the 1st pick?
    I agree! I would think that the ratings for the draft would be higher if nobody is signed.

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