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Thread: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

  1. #1
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    Default Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Anyone else concerned that this team is only a .500 team since the first road-heavy month of the season? Where has our "Smashmouth"/ "Disprove the Doubters" mentality gone? Just when this team started building "Believeability", they have been gone out & been average. Almost every Big win is followed by Bad losses, Home losses, Multi-losses.

    Anyone wish we would see something/ hear something a little different from Frank? I have yet heard him call out our effort, lack/loss of season-starting identity. The "Mr. Rogers/ up-beat spinning the ball on a toothbrush kid routine" does not get it done. I'm not saying he needs to start calling out individuals in public, but calling out the "Team" might get their attention. Let's remember, Frank is just now 1 yr worth of games into is coaching career, the honeymoon over, & this is when he needs to get this team focused day-in/ day-out without excuses. So far, he has not.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping off a ledge, but winning by 15 vs. Miami & losing by 15 to a depleted NJ team is far from focused, far from acceptable! While I get we are not the only team who is inconsistent, but look what CHI is doing w/o D.Rose! We have been relatively healthy, and have only added talent since the start of the season, but I'm not seeing us get better, are you?. If we want to be "Elite" as we say, we should compare ourselves (our effort) to CHI, not an inconsistent ORL & others. I don't see us doing that - Do you?

    Where are we?
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
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  3. #2
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Would you rather have lost to Miami by 15 and beaten NJ?

    Don't get me wrong, I realize you'd want to win both in a perfect world, but it's still a good week IMO. It bucks their season-long trend of not showing up against the really good teams.

    Indiana is not going to be a consistent team as-constructed. They just aren't. Too much youth/inexperience at key positions, and they don't yet have a locker room leader to rally around. They're a bit of a ship without a captain. Some days it runs just fine without a senior officer, and some days the ship crashes into the rocks and nobody knows quite why.

    On the plus side, all the pieces are there for a leader to step right in and pilot the ship, and the talent is there to sneak up on people even without one.

    It's progress. I think, no matter what you want to make of this season, so far you can say there has been progress. That should be encouraging enough. This team was never advertised to be a finished product. They aren't built to go to the finals this season, but they are built to finish better than last season. Baby steps, or something like that.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-29-2012 at 10:32 AM.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Nothing really to add to Kstat except that each game will tell a different story. Tonight's game vs. the Wiz is pretty important - it's at home, it's at a team that jumped on us last week, and it's after being totally embarrassed in NJ.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    It's really simple. It comes down to sharing the ball on the offensive end and defending the paint and rebounding missed shots on the defensive end.

    When the Pacers do those two things in the same game, they usually win. They were out rebounded last night 43-39 and they stopped passing the ball and defending the paint in the 4th quarter. That's a recipe for disaster.

    They're inconsistent because they're a young team and because they have several players that are just inconsistent in the way they approach the game.

    Still we have to look at this season as a success thus far. They're worlds better than the O'Brien led team from last season and they usually respond well to a disappointing loss like this. Every team, including the Bulls, has had a couple of really disappointing losses in this condensed season.

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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    What do you consider "smashmouth"? Do you consider great defense to be smashmouth? Because the Sixers are the best defense in the league and they are far from smashmouth.

    Smashmouth to me means thriving off of contact. It means not shying away from contact. It means taking the ball hard to the rim to create contact and draw the foul. It means fouling the opponents when they try to get to the lane and not allowing easy points. That's smashmouth to me.

    Does the team delivers this? Yes, they do. We're top 3 in 6 out of 7 FT statistical category and tied for 5th in the one that we're not top 3. We're also top 3 in every foul against category. In a league that has got less foul prone and less likely to go the line due to the lockout, we are getting more and more aggressive drawing fouls and getting to the line and delivering fouls as well.

    That's smashmouth. And this emote should be this season's emblem:

    Looking back to the NJ game. I'm not worried that we lost by 16. I'm worried that we only went to the line 13 times. I'm worried that we only commited 20 fouls (Lou did not commit a single foul in 19 minutes). My problem is not that we lost. My problem is that we were not smashmouth which ultimately resulted in our loss.

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Vogel 49-38 You know who 121-169
    End of conversation.

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    While I get we are not the only team who is inconsistent, but look what CHI is doing w/o D.Rose! We have been relatively healthy, and have only added talent since the start of the season, but I'm not seeing us get better, are you?. If we want to be "Elite" as we say, we should compare ourselves (our effort) to CHI, not an inconsistent ORL & others. I don't see us doing that - Do you?

    Where are we?
    Who doesn't WANT to be elite? I know I do... But who looks at our roster and expects that? We have zero superstar Playoff tested players. Chicago has one (and a solid team & arguably the best coach in the game beside him)... Miami has 3... OKC has 2... San An has 3 and probably the second best coach in the game... Those are the 4 ELITE teams this year...

    We are right where I expect us to be... Somewhere between the 3rd and 6th best team in our conference depending on the week we have week to week...

    We should rightfully be compared to Philly more than any other team in the L... They are in the same boat as us (solid young team without a superstar) and we have outshined them this year... Comparing us to Chicago is more realistic when Rose is out... And they are 12-5 without him... And our Pacers started this season also at 12-5... Both us and the Rose-less Bulls had these records over 17 games partly due to our opponents not knowing our offensive and defensive strategies with a different roster than our opponent is accustomed to playing...

    I think the inconsistancy of our young roster makes us more exciting to follow in the Playoffs... If we lose in the first round many will be upset but most won't be too surprised... However if make it to the ECF or even the Finals people will be surprised and happy... Either outcome is a realistic possibility to me... Can't wait to see it play out...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Honestly I don't want Vogel to send messages to the players through the media. That is probably the worst thing he could do to a team as mentally fragile as ours. He just needs to keep their spirits up and teach them to move on to next game.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPreGame View Post
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    Honestly I don't want Vogel to send messages to the players through the media. That is probably the worst thing he could do to a team as mentally fragile as ours. He just needs to keep their spirits up and teach them to move on to next game.
    Not sure where you would get the idea that anything Vogel says to the Media he hasn't (or won't) say directly to the players.

    Can we be careful of the fallacy that since we weren't in the locker room we assume nothing is being said? It has scuttled the opinions toward worse and better coaches than Frank and has been unfair in every case.

    EDIT: Never mind, I missed the comments about saying something in the media in the OP.
    Last edited by BillS; 03-29-2012 at 01:31 PM. Reason: oops
    BillS

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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Anyone else concerned that this team is only a .500 team since the first road-heavy month of the season? Where has our "Smashmouth"/ "Disprove the Doubters" mentality gone? Just when this team started building "Believeability", they have been gone out & been average. Almost every Big win is followed by Bad losses, Home losses, Multi-losses.

    Anyone wish we would see something/ hear something a little different from Frank? I have yet heard him call out our effort, lack/loss of season-starting identity. The "Mr. Rogers/ up-beat spinning the ball on a toothbrush kid routine" does not get it done. I'm not saying he needs to start calling out individuals in public, but calling out the "Team" might get their attention. Let's remember, Frank is just now 1 yr worth of games into is coaching career, the honeymoon over, & this is when he needs to get this team focused day-in/ day-out without excuses. So far, he has not.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping off a ledge, but winning by 15 vs. Miami & losing by 15 to a depleted NJ team is far from focused, far from acceptable! While I get we are not the only team who is inconsistent, but look what CHI is doing w/o D.Rose! We have been relatively healthy, and have only added talent since the start of the season, but I'm not seeing us get better, are you?. If we want to be "Elite" as we say, we should compare ourselves (our effort) to CHI, not an inconsistent ORL & others. I don't see us doing that - Do you?

    Where are we?
    I disagree. Positivity is always better than negativity. I don't think a coach publicly criticizing his players has EVER worked out. If he wants to call out the effort of players, do it in practice or behind closed doors, not throw them under the bus publicly.

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  19. #11
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where Are We? (I'm Lost)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Nothing really to add to Kstat except that each game will tell a different story. Tonight's game vs. the Wiz is pretty important - it's at home, it's at a team that jumped on us last week, and it's after being totally embarrassed in NJ.
    I agree. The NJ loss (and several others) prove that they have a massive consistency problem likely due to youth, but also coming from Granger. If ever there was a game to prove McKeyFan's point it was last night, especially that silly charging foul in the 3rd which seemed like a pretty obvious bad choice even without the foul issues he had going.


    So okay, they can get caught with letdowns and youthful inconsistency. That's not fine, but it's reasonable.

    However a loss tonight, even a poor showing tonight, would be something more than just "well we got caught with a big win letdown". Tonight could prove that there is a fundamental system flaw that's driving these wild swings in quality of play.



    D West was right, that was embarrassing. A top 4 seed type of team simply can NEVER accept that type of outcome. The team needs to set a higher standard of expected play. I know the guys TALK about it, but that's not the same as knowing it, feeling it, living by it.

    That will to refuse anything other than greatness has to come from the gut, it has to be a "need" not a "I'd like it to be this way." Pat Riley did the head in a bucket of water trick. That feeling when you can take no more is the feeling of NEEDING to breathe. That brings in an entirely different level of passion and effort.


    I know it's "just sport", but it is your living and a major part of your life's legacy.

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