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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

  1. #26
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    It is also important, I think, to understand that this is EXACTLY what he was brought here to do. I think in games where the scoring is balanced across the players on the floor and the ball is moving, we won't see Barbosa play as much as in games where the scoring has stagnated and his push is needed.
    Exactly. Which is why I have no problem with his role.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    and outplayed Horford in their one meeting.
    He didn't outplayed him. Al was injured in the 1st quarter

  3. #28
    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He didn't outplayed him. Al was injured in the 1st quarter
    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!



    Roy is a man.

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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I'll just go with the one negative that really stood out to me all night - The Pacers depend entirely too much on one-on-one, isolation plays for their offense. The George Hill 5-second violation (the Mark Jackson Rule) was a highlight of the way the Pacers played a good majority of the game.
    Why would you use a misapplied rule as evidence?

  6. #30
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!
    Yeah but I don't consider this outplaying the opposition

  7. #31
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I figured I'd spout about my love for George Hill here. :P

    I still don't think he's a point guard, at least he can't run a half court set well. But it hasn't mattered because he has good clock awareness (usually) and he'll get his shot up and make it anyway. And he's not turnover prone.

    That said, I love everything about his game. From his shooting, to his PnR game, to the way he comes off screens, to his defense, to his basketball IQ. I know Harden has been great, and is likely to get sixth man of the year, but I don't know that I'd rather have any other bench player coming off the bench than Hill.

    I'd almost be curious to see if Hill could run a triangle offense (as that isn't THAT involved for a PG)..and it might be worth installing a lot of that offense just so Hill could be our future starter there (that's something to look at next training camp though.) because his game is so good everywhere else.
    Couldn't agree more, he's been a homerun and a hero style player.

    I wish Paul would kick his funk because even in the midst of it he makes great plays and improves the defense. His help on Gortat in the Suns game late helped finally slow that PnR play down, for example.

    He's kinda got the Danny syndrome from years 2-3, the "I want to dribble drive but I don't always show the handles to do it". He splits doubles better than Danny did and when he does pull off a decent move he covers ground to the rim better than Danny did. But in the meantime we are seeing a lot of needless TOs out of his attempts.

    To me he's in the fits and starts of maturing from good prospect to real team star. I was just hoping he'd be through with that by the end of the year and right now it's hard to tell.

    If you could just get Roy and Paul to settle into their games consistently I think there's enough there to win against elite teams, even with Danny, West, DC and Tyler showing up and fading back all the time.

  8. #32
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!



    Roy is a man.
    MAN!

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  10. #33
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    considering we took the heat to overtime last time we played, do you really need to be so pessimistic? I used to like these threads. We won a blowout, why so itchy?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  11. #34
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by righteouscool View Post
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    Paul and Darren are almost always the cutters on the baseline. Watch when Paul gives Roy the ball he almost always cuts towards the basket by Roy.
    Yes. Danny cuts a fair amount after dumping it off to Roy too. It happens quite a bit, but it does seem to be used more some nights than others...match-up related, I suppose. The cuts aren't always crisp and/or the defender stays with the cutter...I'd say most of the time there is nothing there, but then there is usually space for Roy to back his man down, so we go with that.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    Michael Pina, Red94: "There are so many different ways the Pacers can beat you. They have an All-Star scoring threat, imposing figures on the front line, steady point guard play, and most importantly, a defense that'll choke the life out of just about every offense that crosses its path."

  12. #35
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    To win consistently in the playoffs, the Pacers need to improve their ability to pass. In particular, passing the ball to the player in position to score.
    Yes, as well as passing back into the post. Too many times the ball will go into Roy in so-so position, he passes out and re-posts deeper but doesn't get the ball back, or gets it back late. He should get it back immediately. Roy is either going to get a very high percentage shot or the defense will be forced to react and someone will be open outside or mid-range.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    Michael Pina, Red94: "There are so many different ways the Pacers can beat you. They have an All-Star scoring threat, imposing figures on the front line, steady point guard play, and most importantly, a defense that'll choke the life out of just about every offense that crosses its path."

  13. #36
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Pacers will remain inconsistent till 2 things happen.

    1. Vogel actually has time to implement his style of offense. We should have a better offense and defensive system next season.
    I'm going to harp on Vogel's offense until it's somehow addressed. There either isn't an offensive scheme other than the "pass the ball around to the next open person unless you gets a shot that you are comfortable with taking" method that I keep on seeing. I have seen too many ill-advised shots taken by Hansbrough ( who really sucks at taking and missing last minute shots ), GH and Barbosa ( that can hit some last minute desperation shots ) when the shot clock is down to the last second.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  15. #37
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I was talking to Billy Keller at the IMCU signing on Saturday and my wife asked him about why Roy hesitates so much when he gets the ball, almost like he is waiting for the double team. We thought we'd get an answer from him as shooting coach, but he said that the offensive play is supposed to send a cutter down on the baseline that Roy can pass off to for a layup or draw the defender. I found that interesting and wasn't able to aks the follow-up questions that come to mind, especially about why we seldom if ever SEE such a cutter.

    I will be watching particularly closely in the situations where Roy seems to hesitate and will try to be aware of the wing activity in that case. It makes me wonder if there are teams where the post play is designed for the activity Billy talked about and if there are teams where the post play is designed for Roy to be the single option when he gets the ball in the paint - that would go a LONG way in explaining why some games he moves as soon as he gets the ball and other games he seems to stand around.
    I could be wrong....but I think that this is when you see Hibbert get the ball inside the paint.....looks over his shoulder while trying to back into the paint and then either tries to score with his sky hook...or passes it to another Player. This takes what seems to be an eternity....it does lead to some pass from him...but I also think that when he looks over his shoulder...it exposes him to be double teamed...OR WORSE...that someone will come from his weak side ( the direction that he is not looking at ) to poke the ball out of his hand.

    I've seen this happen several times before....he's doing his regular routine of backing the defender into the paint...looking over his left shoulder...and some other defender comes in ( either from behind him or from his right side that he isn't looking at ) and pokes the ball out of his hand.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  16. #38

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm going to harp on Vogel's offense until it's somehow addressed. There either isn't an offensive scheme other than the "pass the ball around to the next open person unless you gets a shot that you are comfortable with taking" method that I keep on seeing. I have seen too many ill-advised shots taken by Hansbrough ( who really sucks at taking and missing last minute shots ), GH and Barbosa ( that can hit some last minute desperation shots ) when the shot clock is down to the last second.
    I hate to be the one who harps on this, but when you had AJ playing with GH, so long as AJ was playing the point well (and not just jacking up a shot) quit often that unit displayed ball movement/player movement. (There were about five plays used pretty often. The curl to get GH a midrange shot. The screening to get a corner three. The post entry. The PnR/PnP -one with Amundson, the other with Tyler. ) They set screens (and ran off of them well) and got the ball into the post well. There was some absolutely great offense being run at times with that unit. (particularly when Hansbrough was replaced by West)

    A court general makes a difference. Certain types of point guards not only pass the ball well, but also direct/manage a team.

    The first unit? That's an entirely different question with it's own problems.

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  18. #39
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I hate to be the one who harps on this, but when you had AJ playing with GH, so long as AJ was playing the point well (and not just jacking up a shot) quit often that unit displayed ball movement/player movement. (There were about five plays used pretty often. The curl to get GH a midrange shot. The screening to get a corner three. The post entry. The PnR/PnP -one with Amundson, the other with Tyler. ) They set screens (and ran off of them well) and got the ball into the post well. There was some absolutely great offense being run at times with that unit. (particularly when Hansbrough was replaced by West)

    A court general makes a difference. Certain types of point guards not only pass the ball well, but also direct/manage a team.

    The first unit? That's an entirely different question with it's own problems.
    I do not doubt what you say is true ( that having a better Floor General on the floor to direct traffic helps mitigate the issue that we are discussing here ), but please note that this observation of "passing the ball continually until they either find a shot that they like or running out of time on the shot clock and therefore heaving up a bad shot at the very last second" has been happening for a very long time.....even in the 2nd unit....even before Barbosa came on board and GH was running the point.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  19. #40
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Skiles, best coach?!

    Future HOFer GREGG POPOVICH

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